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Old 08-19-2013, 04:52 PM   #51 (permalink)
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OP, you are funny!! That was a great joke!!

PG24, which stands for Paul George, 2 much 4 you, is a GOOD young player. He has range, though not deadly, but definitely deserve some respect. His defense is okay because of his length and speed, but still need to read his assignment better. He can handle the ball for a short period of time, and have good vision. However, his shots selection is still iffy (note his FG%), and he try to force too much (note his TO).

Can he develop into a great player? Probably, depending on the coaching staff and his personal goals.

Is his currently a Top 5 players? NO

Is his currently a Top 10 players? Within his position = YES, Within the whole league = NO

Basketball is about offense and defense, but when looking at a player, you also need to consider his leadership, his effectiveness, and his overall skill set.

Just my .02, but base on your assumption, I guess I don't know much about basketball..
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Old 08-19-2013, 04:59 PM   #52 (permalink)
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I agree that defense is very important and undervalued by many people. George is a very good defender for sure. Gasol, Lebron, Paul, and Gasol all made first or second defensive team as well. Gasol was DPOY. George is a very good rebounder for his position. H doesn't guarded the other best player every night. During the regular season he didnt normall guard PG,PF and C. He did guard the best wing player in the other team but he physically has trouble with opponents larger then him because he is skinny.

George is a solid offensive player but not spectacular. He didnt average 20 ppg in either the regular season or playoffs. He shot 42% from the field in the regular season and 43% in the playoffs. He was in the top 40 for assists during the regular season but he had the second worst A/T ratio of anyone in the top 40.

To me he could be on someone's top ten list, but I can also see leaving him off the list. Saying people lose credibility of he isn't in the their top ten isn't near as far crèches as you saying he is the perhaps the second best player in the game.

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I put value in a players individual on ball defense and his team defense. PG is is better than everyone on that list on defense besides Bron. PG is guarding the best player every night and still averages 20 a night.
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Old 08-19-2013, 05:24 PM   #53 (permalink)
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His defense is okay because of his length and speed, but still need to read his assignment better.
Sounds like you watch Paul George sparingly...and Game 1 of the ECF was your first major exposure to him. He is one of the top 3 best perimeter defenders in the league and this year he gets to play against SG's. Life is going to be very good for Paul George this season.
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Old 08-19-2013, 06:13 PM   #54 (permalink)
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Sounds like you watch Paul George sparingly...and Game 1 of the ECF was your first major exposure to him. He is one of the top 3 best perimeter defenders in the league and this year he gets to play against SG's. Life is going to be very good for Paul George this season.
You are right that I haven't watched him religiously, however, I have been following him as he was on two of my Fantasy teams (though I must admit, playing fantasy put a weird/different perspective into things).

Don't get me wrong, I think he is a good perimeter defender, but what I mean is that during certain times I have watched him, when he was suppose to guard the shot instead of the lane, but his spacing is too far out, giving the other player enough time to get off a shot (though because of his length, he can still bother the shooter most of the time). Other times when a quicker player is out on the perimeter, he should give him more space, but instead he relies on his quickness to hopefully catch up, which burnt him a couple of times. Also, on post defense, with help defense on the inside, he forces outside. It doesn't happen often, but enough for me to notice at times.

Like I said, I don't watch him throughout 82 games, so I could be misguided. However, through 20 or so games I have watched of him, those are the things that came to mind.
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Old 08-19-2013, 07:59 PM   #55 (permalink)
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Paul George is in the top 5! If you honestly think Kobe is better than George right now you know nothing about basketball.
I think he (paul george) is top 10-15 right now, but not top 5. But if he plays next year like he did in the playoffs, he'll move up into top 5. He just needs to do it one more year imo.

BTW, I do agree he is better than Kobe at this point. Kobe has better skills but his athleticism and quickness has fallen way off due to his age. Still a great player.. especially at his old age.
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Old 08-19-2013, 08:36 PM   #56 (permalink)
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Stats don't lie:

2012-13 Paul George:

PPG: 25th
FG%: 108th (17th for SF)
3PT%: 78th
PER: 88th
VAL (value added - combination of advance sabremetrics): 37th
EWC (estimated win contribution): 37th
REB (for SF): 6th
ASSISTS (for SF): 7th
TO: 2nd WORST (for SF)


I know stats aren't everything but it's a pretty good indication that Paul George is not the 2nd best player in the league. It would be a stretch calling him top 10. You're basing your assessment based on his potential, not what he has actually accomplished.

He IS a very good defensive player, probably top 3 in his position, I'll give him that. But the NBA isn't a one-sided game.
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Old 08-19-2013, 09:10 PM   #57 (permalink)
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I tried talking reason and never got a valid respond.

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Originally Posted by Jin View Post
Stats don't lie:

2012-13 Paul George:

PPG: 25th
FG%: 108th (17th for SF)
3PT%: 78th
PER: 88th
VAL (value added - combination of advance sabremetrics): 37th
EWC (estimated win contribution): 37th
REB (for SF): 6th
ASSISTS (for SF): 7th
TO: 2nd WORST (for SF)


I know stats aren't everything but it's a pretty good indication that Paul George is not the 2nd best player in the league. It would be a stretch calling him top 10. You're basing your assessment based on his potential, not what he has actually accomplished.

He IS a very good defensive player, probably top 3 in his position, I'll give him that. But the NBA isn't a one-sided game.
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Old 08-19-2013, 09:17 PM   #58 (permalink)
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It can't hurt to let him play out the season to see if he progresses like most think he will. (He is definitely not the second best player in the league right now, he might be in the top 10)
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Old 08-19-2013, 11:06 PM   #59 (permalink)
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I think Paul George is a great complimenting piece but not a star you build a team around. He should be your second best player or even third on a team. He's an exciting player and fun player to watch. He just isn't a to-go-guy.
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Old 08-20-2013, 06:01 AM   #60 (permalink)
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I think Paul George is a great complimenting piece but not a star you build a team around. He should be your second best player or even third on a team. He's an exciting player and fun player to watch. He just isn't a to-go-guy.
What exactly do you base that opinion on?

It amuses me how many people treat Paul George like hes a fluke. Read up on his drive and determination. He's going to be a hell of a player.
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Old 08-20-2013, 03:31 PM   #61 (permalink)
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Clearly this is not the official list. Clearly this could change a million times before 2017. Clearly these "experts" sometimes know as much as we do.

I still found it interesting based on this thread.

6 experts did an article based on who the Top 100 players will be in 2017. Not who you'd start a team with - but who the actual best 100 players will be in the game in 2017.

Paul George came in at #13

If I was a Pacers fan I'd be eccstatic if he was in the Top 15 - whether that's Top 15, 10, or 5 - having a Top 15 player (at least according to these guys) is pretty big.

Personally I'd have him ahead of Blake Griffin and Steph Curry so he'd be at #11 for me but that's just personal preference.

SB Nation's top 100 NBA players of 2017 - SBNation.com
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Old 08-20-2013, 03:38 PM   #62 (permalink)
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Clearly this is not the official list. Clearly this could change a million times before 2017. Clearly these "experts" sometimes know as much as we do.

I still found it interesting based on this thread.

6 experts did an article based on who the Top 100 players will be in 2017. Not who you'd start a team with - but who the actual best 100 players will be in the game in 2017.

Paul George came in at #13

If I was a Pacers fan I'd be eccstatic if he was in the Top 15 - whether that's Top 15, 10, or 5 - having a Top 15 player (at least according to these guys) is pretty big.

Personally I'd have him ahead of Blake Griffin and Steph Curry so he'd be at #11 for me but that's just personal preference.

SB Nation's top 100 NBA players of 2017 - SBNation.com
#3 and #8.. sigh...
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Old 08-20-2013, 03:42 PM   #63 (permalink)
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Paul George Top 10 for 2012/13 Season? I think so.

Paul George Top 10 overall in NBA? I think not, especially not after just 1 good season. Tons of other Player deserve the Honors. Lebron, KD, Melo, Dwight, Wade, Rose, Kobe, CP3, Love, Harden, I can go on.
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Old 08-20-2013, 03:43 PM   #64 (permalink)
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You are right that I haven't watched him religiously, however, I have been following him as he was on two of my Fantasy teams (though I must admit, playing fantasy put a weird/different perspective into things).

Don't get me wrong, I think he is a good perimeter defender, but what I mean is that during certain times I have watched him, when he was suppose to guard the shot instead of the lane, but his spacing is too far out, giving the other player enough time to get off a shot (though because of his length, he can still bother the shooter most of the time). Other times when a quicker player is out on the perimeter, he should give him more space, but instead he relies on his quickness to hopefully catch up, which burnt him a couple of times. Also, on post defense, with help defense on the inside, he forces outside. It doesn't happen often, but enough for me to notice at times.

Like I said, I don't watch him throughout 82 games, so I could be misguided. However, through 20 or so games I have watched of him, those are the things that came to mind.
I don't think you get 2nd team All-Defense by being a poor defender...

That is why these awards are based on a full season and not of "certain times"
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Old 08-20-2013, 03:47 PM   #65 (permalink)
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#3 and #8.. sigh...
LOL @ Lillard at 42, Faried at 70 (Vucevic 1 spot ahead of him ),


Ryan Anderson at 67, Thaddeus Young at 66...Uhhh?
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Old 08-20-2013, 03:50 PM   #66 (permalink)
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I like George's game quite a bit. He is a net positive on both sides of the court - +8.8 pts per 100 possessions. In comparison to a guy like Irving +1. The next step for him is to be a bit more consistent with his shot and aggressive with his opportunities without sacrificing too much defensive effort. Given his age I think his upside is very high. I am sure the Pacers will lock him up long term at the Max next season.
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Old 08-20-2013, 04:00 PM   #67 (permalink)
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LOL @ Lillard at 42, Faried at 70 (Vucevic 1 spot ahead of him ),


Ryan Anderson at 67, Thaddeus Young at 66...Uhhh?
Did you read the rational or just look at the names?

I don't necessarily agree on all of them either - but they have some legit reasons if you read them.

Young finished higher in PER last year then Noah, Rondo, Randolph, Vucevic, Josh Smith, George (way ahead of Paul George), Holiday and others.

PER is not the end all be all stat. I'm not saying it is. It does show that Young gave tremendous value last year and wasn't recognized for it.

I'm simply saying throwing question marks behind Young or Anderson is way too simplistic. These guys are legit players - and could easily be where they are "ranked" in the 2017 link.
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Old 08-20-2013, 04:04 PM   #68 (permalink)
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i'll bump this thread when jimmy butler shuts him down and drops the double nickel
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Old 08-20-2013, 04:07 PM   #69 (permalink)
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I love me some Paul George but he's not even top 10.
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Old 08-20-2013, 04:17 PM   #70 (permalink)
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Young finished higher in PER last year then Noah, Rondo, Randolph, Vucevic, Josh Smith, George (way ahead of Paul George), Holiday and others.

PER is not the end all be all stat. I'm not saying it is. It does show that Young gave tremendous value last year and wasn't recognized for it.
I watched Young playing last year, but I don't think he was helping the team to win. He just doesn't have the same impact as Noah has on the court.
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Old 08-20-2013, 04:31 PM   #71 (permalink)
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Paul George is the most overrated player in the league ... Stats don't lie, IMPACT on games doesn't lie, he's a Solid / Good Player , 2nd or 3rd option type of guy ...

He doesn't have the mindset (Am I the only one that saw how much bone-headed, soft fouls, soft TO's, soft fade-aways he shot in the PO's? ... I don't think he plays tough enough ... and 1 dunk doesn't mean he plays tough), consistency, presence of a star player yet and the difference between a Star/Superstar and a Solid / Good Player like George is minimal, but VERY significant (Difference between Kevin Durant and Rudy Gay) ...

We'll see if he turns into KD, but I don't see "it" in him - meaning feel for the game, impact on the court, ability to draw double teams, take over games, etc. and you can usually see "it" quickly in a player's career if they're going to be a star (I know he's young, but even when superstars are "young" you can still see flashes of "it" and I just don't see it)

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Old 08-20-2013, 04:45 PM   #72 (permalink)
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I watched Young playing last year, but I don't think he was helping the team to win. He just doesn't have the same impact as Noah has on the court.
I don't disagree. Noah has a bigger impact.

But that doesn't change the fact that Young was underrated compared to what people think he is. Technically for those that think WAR is a big time Baseball stat - Young would be better then Noah - he added more "value" and more "wins above replacement" last year, based on basketball analytics, then Noah does.

Now I'm not saying anyone would actually choose Young over Noah.

Young is only 25, has improved every year, and is all of a sudden a solid 15 & 8 guy that is doing it incredibly efficently.

I don't really care about Thaddeus Young. I'm not really debating him per se. I'm simply replying to the post that acted as if Young in the Top 70 (or Ryan Anderson) was some sort of joke. Seems like a "name" reaction to me and not really going through the rationale.
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Old 08-20-2013, 04:57 PM   #73 (permalink)
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I don't disagree. Noah has a bigger impact.

But that doesn't change the fact that Young was underrated compared to what people think he is. Technically for those that think WAR is a big time Baseball stat - Young would be better then Noah - he added more "value" and more "wins above replacement" last year, based on basketball analytics, then Noah does.

Now I'm not saying anyone would actually choose Young over Noah.

Young is only 25, has improved every year, and is all of a sudden a solid 15 & 8 guy that is doing it incredibly efficently.

I don't really care about Thaddeus Young. I'm not really debating him per se. I'm simply replying to the post that acted as if Young in the Top 70 (or Ryan Anderson) was some sort of joke. Seems like a "name" reaction to me and not really going through the rationale.
It wasn't just a "name" reaction, I read their rationale and disagreed with it. I dont believe that advanced metrics are as valuable in the NBA as they are in other sports like the MLB. Especially PER. Ryan Anderson has plateaued imo, and don't anticipate him getting any better. They call him the poor man's Kevin Love....Im not too high on Kevin Love either. Somebody has to put up numbers on a bad team. I know K Love missed a majority of last season, but theres no reason why the Wolves shouldnt be better than they are when they play if his flashy numbers are what they truly say they are.

I dont buy into Thaddeus Young at all. I think that he is gifted athletically, and he has good PER numbers, but when you watch him play (the eye ball test) does he actually look like hes playing winning basketball?

The Playoffs exposes who are real stars and who are just stat stuffers. The Blake Griffins, Ryan Anderson and Danny Granger's of the world get exposed (Just like Young and Love would if they ever made it there) while the Paul George's of the world prosper. Just my opinion.
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Old 08-20-2013, 05:03 PM   #74 (permalink)
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The biggest stat stuffer that doesn't really help there team win is Andre Iguodala.
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Old 08-20-2013, 05:20 PM   #75 (permalink)
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I wonder if this thread would have been made if Granger never got injured
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