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Old 09-20-2013, 12:11 AM   #51 (permalink)
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Why did i have faith in Panini? I really thought this was gonna be special.
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Old 09-20-2013, 12:14 AM   #52 (permalink)
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Im tired of logomen anyways
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Old 09-20-2013, 12:28 AM   #53 (permalink)
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Sweet, i only have around 20 new GP's to collect from the one product!
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Old 09-20-2013, 12:30 AM   #54 (permalink)
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Great, the checklist sucks and really kills the value of the superstar autos - and i'm still going to crack too much of this and lose my a#@$@ on it, lol.
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Old 09-20-2013, 12:35 AM   #55 (permalink)
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Fck, I have a non-refundable $250 deposit.
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Old 09-20-2013, 12:37 AM   #56 (permalink)
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Just went through the checklist... yikes. It's like Topps Triple Threads - parallels of everything. And some of the names in the Auto Patch set... yuck.

Yet again an offering from Panini that had promise, but looks like they've bombed.
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Old 09-20-2013, 12:53 AM   #57 (permalink)
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I understand the disappointment in the checklist to some degree, but I don't get why everyone is so excited for Immaculate. Immaculate's checklist will look like child's play compared to Flawless. Kim English anyone? There will be some awesome hits in Immaculate, but they will be super hard to get. I'd personally rather get one box of Flawless than 4 Immaculate. Maybe I'm the only one.

Also, as far as "chase" elements go I see plenty of that in Flawless. Maybe there are no logomen, but there ARE jumbo patch autos (regardless of what someone in here said). And there are 1/1 auto patches. I'd rather have a 1/1 auto patch of Shaq than a Logoman of Luol Deng, Andrew Bynum, Tyreke Evans, Dual Granger/Collison, Al-Farouq Aminu, Elton Brand, Derek Fisher, Danilo Ganllinari, Nene, Raymond Felton, Jeff Teague, Brandon Jennings, Eric Gordon, Martin/Scola Dual, Kevin Martin, etc (all cards that have sold on eBay for well less than $500 from this year's Treasures). In fact I did a search on eBay for the highest price Logoman out of Treasures. There are 432 results in completed listings if you type "2012-13 national treasures logoman". Only about 34 of them sold for over $1,000 (some were listed much higher but didn't actually sell). And nearly 300 weren't even worth $500. I understand there were a few that sold for $5,000-$10,000. That's obviously a huge chase. I get that there might not be a $10,000 card in Flawless. But the odds of getting a Logoman in Treasures can't be better than about 1 in 10 cases (at the best). And just based on the odds of what is sold you have about a 1:5 chance that your Logoman will be worth more $1,000. I personally believe Flawless will have way more $1,000 cards than Treasures. And considering there aren't nearly as many cases or boxes, they will be MUCH easier to get.

Just my opinion.
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Old 09-20-2013, 01:03 AM   #58 (permalink)
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So the only thing different in this compared to all other Panini products is, Karl Malone Autos and Wilt and Pistol Pete patches and yet no cuts of them?
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Old 09-20-2013, 01:07 AM   #59 (permalink)
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fellas calm down this isnt the final checklist. I cant pick up a case for less than $3000.00 now. Something is going on, and its going to be big!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Old 09-20-2013, 01:25 AM   #60 (permalink)
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theres big patch auto cards, but the patches are smaller than some nt cards & other cards throughout the last 10 years. for a $1250 product i wanna see like nearly full card patches with autos. why coudlnt they include shoe piece cards with autos in this. they shouldve done more for a $1250 product than have a regular product just lowered #'d with a bunch of parallels and then have diamonds & emeralds. gems are fine, good, something kinda new, lets see more newish stuff. for a product that is more than double the msrp of any other product ever, we have the right to expect the best product of all time.
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Old 09-20-2013, 01:27 AM   #61 (permalink)
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yea i called this one, im down for a box or 2 of immaculate flawless is too flawed in its price point, should be a 3-400 box, they can keep the diamond ill take a logoman.
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Old 09-20-2013, 01:38 AM   #62 (permalink)
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This can't be the final checklist. I want to believe that there will be a bigger annoucement for Flawless. If not then why would Blowout and a few other online retailers not have any for presale yet.
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Old 09-20-2013, 04:07 AM   #63 (permalink)
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Well it shouldn't kill me too much, only 8 singles to pick up for the pc and no base.
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Old 09-20-2013, 07:52 AM   #64 (permalink)
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I really believed that mj and lebron would be in this, the way panini rented lillard from leaf.
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Old 09-20-2013, 08:02 AM   #65 (permalink)
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I decided NOT to change my order even though they did not include logomans or any surprise signers. I think this product will deliver great cards and the value WILL be there.

6 Autos. ALL ON CARD
1 Patch Auto ON CARD
2 Jumbo PRIME Patches
1 Base diamond or emerald

No worthless base, no worthless jersey cards, no worthless Kobe card, no worthless printing plates.

These cards will be much harder to get. I mean the production is probably about 1/3 what NT was. If anything you guys should be complaining that NT is too overpriced.


Flawless 1300 cases at $1250 Case vs 4000-5000 cases at $1850/case for NT.


For my money I would rather have 6 On card Autos, 1 PRIME PATCH on card auto, 2 PRIME PATCHES and a super low numbered base card.

I may not buy NT ever again.

I bought 6 cases of NT. now I can't get distributor prices so I paid retail at release $1850.

I spent $11,000 for

36 On Card Autos
36 Sticker Autos
36 Base cards
36 Jersey Cards
18 Patch Cards
36 plates
18 Kobe cards

Kobe cards, jersey cards, base cards, plates, dual autos are basically worthless in NT (save a few cards that might have some decent value)

The only cards that are worth holding on to are the RPAs and the Logoman. And most of those are very valuable.

I would rather spend $11,000 and get

30 On card autos
5 Auto Prime Patches
10 Prime Patches
5 Base cards

All /25 or less all game used.

My two cents. I'm still looking forward to it.
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Old 09-20-2013, 08:16 AM   #66 (permalink)
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Quote:
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I decided NOT to change my order even though they did not include logomans or any surprise signers. I think this product will deliver great cards and the value WILL be there.
Not a fan of this release for many reasons, however I do not think that checklist is final. Panini drops the ball on a lot of products but I think they will have something last minute to justify the price for Flawless.
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Old 09-20-2013, 08:26 AM   #67 (permalink)
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they havent shown what a flawless card (1/1) is right?
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Old 09-20-2013, 08:28 AM   #68 (permalink)
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Another thing to note is that if you look at the checklist there are numbers missing. Who could they be???
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Old 09-20-2013, 08:32 AM   #69 (permalink)
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Why are we all saying no logoman? Couldn't the 1/1 patch and patch auto cards be logomans?
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Old 09-20-2013, 08:41 AM   #70 (permalink)
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Quote:
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Why are we all saying no logoman? Couldn't the 1/1 patch and patch auto cards be logomans?

Could be....

Price has gone from $2500 to $3k.
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Old 09-20-2013, 08:48 AM   #71 (permalink)
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Quote:
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Could be....

Price has gone from $2500 to $3k.
Roj, best of luck breaking your wax. Im hoping you get some serious stuff.

Please keep me in mind if you choose to sell off your base cards.
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Old 09-20-2013, 08:50 AM   #72 (permalink)
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Vucevic and Valuncianus are in a $1200/pack product??? E'twuan Moore might as well be there
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Old 09-20-2013, 10:10 AM   #73 (permalink)
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This makes NT logoman more valuable. Well done panini.
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Old 09-20-2013, 10:25 AM   #74 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hard2guardtoo View Post
This can't be the final checklist. I want to believe that there will be a bigger annoucement for Flawless. If not then why would Blowout and a few other online retailers not have any for presale yet.
You will see presales on Blowout after they find out how much they will get. I know that the four major distibutors have not allocated any since they dont even know how many case they will get yet.
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Old 09-20-2013, 10:44 AM   #75 (permalink)
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Blowout now has a post with the checklist. Same as the one in Excel. It seems that the miracle is not coming.....Oh well on to Immaculate
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