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Old 11-06-2013, 10:28 AM   #76 (permalink)
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Kyrie is solid. I wouldn't panic over 3 games. I would be more concerned with his health than any slight slumps he goes on. He def looks a little frail and would benefit from a better strength program IMO.

A player that talented will figure it out though. Especially as a scoring pg, his responsibilities are two fold. Also keep in mind he is the floor general of a team with a lot of new pieces to integrate and an entirely new coaching system (and one that isn't well regarded for having the most cohesive offense).

I personally think the basketball market gets way to hyped on the new hot rookie and some of Kyrie's value may be inflated and a little to high to "invest" in. I can see his cards taking a bit of a dip due to the priced in hype and also Panini's decision to whore out the double rookie class but I don't think there will be any long term impact due to his actual play on the court.
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Old 11-06-2013, 10:28 AM   #77 (permalink)
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Mike Brown coaches defense well, the cavs look good there- but it's laissez faire on offense, and when you make your living on iso to get open you'll find it really hard to get a good shot. That's a big part of why Kyrie and Dion have struggled offensively. Plus their bigs don't stretch the floor well to allow for penetration, Bynum is like the tin man after a rainstorm, he's all rusty and breaking down. If Bennett starts to act like a number one pick and Tristan continues to improve and Bynum finds a magic oil can and they run some plays they'll be interesting.
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Old 11-06-2013, 12:27 PM   #78 (permalink)
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its way too early to judge perfomances, plus whats wrong with 15 ppg after only 4 games ? Kevin Love is leading the league in scoring and pacers are only undefeated team, you think all this will last ? I predict kyrie has an awesome year, I will say Lillard is out playing thus far statistically but all you guys are jumping the gun and hitting the panic button 4 games into the season, makes me laugh, relax, too much season left .
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Old 11-06-2013, 12:34 PM   #79 (permalink)
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Well they havent played great, they are 2-2 and beat two playoff teams so far.
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Old 11-06-2013, 01:02 PM   #80 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by ninjacookies View Post
The guy doesn't play above the rim.

I don't know about you all, but all recent guards that maintain super high card price levels either:

- play above the rim

or

- are ridiculous volume scorers

or

-both

Wade, 'Bron, KD, Westbrook, Rose...all either huge volume scorers or play above the rim.

Amazes me how much people are paying for Kyrie and Lillard autos. Almost makes me think a Terrell Brandon RPA back in the day would have sold for 2k+.
And if kyrie didn't have any other scorers on his team he could easily put up 30 a night. Idk what you're talking about
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Old 11-06-2013, 01:12 PM   #81 (permalink)
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As a Cavs fan I'm not worried about the early season struggles, that's like saying Bennett is a bust already... too small of a sample size. As far as collecting is concerned I can actually afford to buy some more of his rookie autos now at least
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Old 11-06-2013, 01:57 PM   #82 (permalink)
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And if kyrie didn't have any other scorers on his team he could easily put up 30 a night. Idk what you're talking about
Ninja has a great point. Are you saying that Cavs are full of superstars that Kyrie cant score 30 a game? Most of the guys listed above has just as good player roaster as the cav in putting up points.
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Old 11-06-2013, 01:59 PM   #83 (permalink)
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Kyrie is a very good player but i can bet my life savings that it will go down in the future with exception of 1/1s (if he does becomes HOF material). Wish there could be investing options where we can short a player's cards like a stock market hah.
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Old 11-06-2013, 02:03 PM   #84 (permalink)
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Kyrie will go down in value. Book it. His cards are priced like he is MJ, Lebron, or Kobe. And even if he is a solid All Star caliber player, he is no MJ, Lebron, or Kobe.
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Old 11-06-2013, 02:21 PM   #85 (permalink)
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Kyrie will go down in value. Book it. His cards are priced like he is MJ, Lebron, or Kobe. And even if he is a solid All Star caliber player, he is no MJ, Lebron, or Kobe.
+1, esp with so much more of his cards being printed. Kyrie is good, great, no doubt, but we are talking about his basketball card value, he is priced at superstar and with so much of his cards (supply) available is a double whammy.
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Old 11-06-2013, 02:23 PM   #86 (permalink)
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Ninja has a great point. Are you saying that Cavs are full of superstars that Kyrie cant score 30 a game? Most of the guys listed above has just as good player roaster as the cav in putting up points.
My point is he doesn't HAVE to score that much for the cavs to win now.

Did anyone see kyries 4th quarters vs the thunder and hornets last year? Never have I seen such domination in every facet of the game then I did when he lit up hornets.

Also, u telling me if kyrie goes out and scores 30 tonight with 8 assists that you guys will still be baggin on him? Yea right
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Old 11-06-2013, 02:29 PM   #87 (permalink)
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Kyrie wont ever be a top PG guys.....so sorry to inform. He has no hunger
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Old 11-06-2013, 02:30 PM   #88 (permalink)
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Kyrie wont ever be a top PG guys.....so sorry to inform. He has no hunger
Please stop posting.

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Old 11-06-2013, 02:34 PM   #89 (permalink)
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Kyrie wont ever be a top PG guys.....so sorry to inform. He has no hunger
He's already a top 10 player in this league so I'm pretty sure you have no idea what you're talkin about.









Actually I'm wrong








I know you have no idea what you're talking about
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Old 11-06-2013, 02:35 PM   #90 (permalink)
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I've never understood the obscene hobby love he gets. He's a good player. 15ppg with 6+ assists at his position is above average. He's not a superstar though. He just doesn't play like a guy who owns it. That doesn't make him crap. It probably makes him an occasional all star.
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Old 11-06-2013, 02:37 PM   #91 (permalink)
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hahahahaha my last one kyrie lovas! No disrespect I like him. Just needs to get mean
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Old 11-06-2013, 02:38 PM   #92 (permalink)
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I've never understood the obscene hobby love he gets. He's a good player. 15ppg with 6+ assists at his position is above average. He's not a superstar though. He just doesn't play like a guy who owns it. That doesn't make him crap. It probably makes him an occasional all star.
4 games. 4 games.

Last year he was the 4th ranked (by PER) PG in Basketball at age 20 - I repeat at age 20 - behind only Paul, Westbrook, and Parker.

I agree he might not deserve the love he gets yet - but don't quote 15 & 6 as if that's his usual. That's 4 games.

His usual is closer to 21 & 6 - with a much more efficient shooting % - that's been shown over the last 2 seasons.
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Old 11-06-2013, 02:45 PM   #93 (permalink)
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I've never understood the obscene hobby love he gets. He's a good player. 15ppg with 6+ assists at his position is above average. He's not a superstar though. He just doesn't play like a guy who owns it. That doesn't make him crap. It probably makes him an occasional all star.
it happens with most top rookies. they're probably never really worth that much, but everyone wants the next big thing. and sadly, its mostly the non-collectors that buy up his stuff. there are a few real collectors of kyrie (did you see the guy that has all the high-end kyries? now that's a collection)

they might not have had prices like kyrie, but I think wall and tyreke were up there. the problem is staying consistent. blake is still sort of up there for what he is, but he's a fan favorite I guess?
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Old 11-06-2013, 02:51 PM   #94 (permalink)
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4 games. 4 games.

Last year he was the 4th ranked (by PER) PG in Basketball at age 20 - I repeat at age 20 - behind only Paul, Westbrook, and Parker.

I agree he might not deserve the love he gets yet - but don't quote 15 & 6 as if that's his usual. That's 4 games.

His usual is closer to 21 & 6 - with a much more efficient shooting % - that's been shown over the last 2 seasons.
Oh i realize this. But to be honest i think it's actually more likely where he'll sit throughout his career. If the Cavs are to get better others will be taking a larger role and his scoring will dip. Like i said. Doesn't make him bad.
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Old 11-06-2013, 02:57 PM   #95 (permalink)
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I see a couple of issues so far with the Cavs, not so much Kyrie.

Someone mentioned that they have too many bigs - I have watched every game so far and the lane seems more clogged and could hurt his ability to drive and score. Remember Andy was hurt most of last season when Kyrie took off.

Also, they are playing in a Mike Brown offense ... this is the same offense that had Lebron dribble for 19 seconds and try to make a play. Similar to what you see with Kyrie - so far.

Overall the team looks lost at times as they adjust to playing together... a number of new faces learning a new system. I don't believe Kyrie has regressed, I think all of the players need to adjust to this new style.

You could see it on Monday when Bynum was in the game - Jack and others were having a hard time concentrating on the post - they eventually did feed him a few times in the post and I think he had a very good game for the minutes he played.

I believe he'll be fine - I don't think that a number of these bigs and shooters (Dion Waiters) will be on the team after February.

I see a trade brewing and maybe this starting line-up by February:

PG - Irving
SG - C.J. Miles
C - Gasol (Bynum back-up)
PF - Thompson
SF - Earl Clark
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Old 11-06-2013, 04:32 PM   #96 (permalink)
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I see a couple of issues so far with the Cavs, not so much Kyrie.

Someone mentioned that they have too many bigs - I have watched every game so far and the lane seems more clogged and could hurt his ability to drive and score. Remember Andy was hurt most of last season when Kyrie took off.

Also, they are playing in a Mike Brown offense ... this is the same offense that had Lebron dribble for 19 seconds and try to make a play. Similar to what you see with Kyrie - so far.

Overall the team looks lost at times as they adjust to playing together... a number of new faces learning a new system. I don't believe Kyrie has regressed, I think all of the players need to adjust to this new style.

You could see it on Monday when Bynum was in the game - Jack and others were having a hard time concentrating on the post - they eventually did feed him a few times in the post and I think he had a very good game for the minutes he played.

I believe he'll be fine - I don't think that a number of these bigs and shooters (Dion Waiters) will be on the team after February.

I see a trade brewing and maybe this starting line-up by February:

PG - Irving
SG - C.J. Miles
C - Gasol (Bynum back-up)
PF - Thompson
SF - Earl Clark
I see you watched the Bill Simmons/Jalen Rose NBA previews they did. Used to love Simmons but he has gone insane with the things he does and says now.

I put the chance of the Cavs trading Waiters, Varejao and next years #1 for Gasol as likely of happening as me suiting up to play center for them. I am 6'1" and waaayyy past my athletic prime

A trade is very possible with all the moving parts they have available. But I will almost assuredly guarantee they will not move assets for a 3 month rental for a guy like Gasol.


Secondly, to your point about Mike Brown's offense and dribbling the clock out. He said in the post game after Minnesota win that they called a play and Kyrie waved it off to go one on one. Sort of threw him under the bus there to prove his point that he is the coach. Kyrie needs something like that, in my opinion, if he wants to be great. He was so aloof to anything Byron Scott said at the end, I think that was as big of a reason for the coaching change as any. Byron acted tough, but would never cross Kyrie, he would take out his "anger" on the guys on the pine like CJ Miles for example.
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Old 11-06-2013, 04:46 PM   #97 (permalink)
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I think I'd be more worried of Derrick Rose than Kyrie. Kyrie is younger and is going to be good. Just like someone said, wait until LeBron returns to Cleveland. I have no problems continuing to sit on his stuff.
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Old 11-06-2013, 05:05 PM   #98 (permalink)
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I see you watched the Bill Simmons/Jalen Rose NBA previews they did. Used to love Simmons but he has gone insane with the things he does and says now.

I put the chance of the Cavs trading Waiters, Varejao and next years #1 for Gasol as likely of happening as me suiting up to play center for them. I am 6'1" and waaayyy past my athletic prime

A trade is very possible with all the moving parts they have available. But I will almost assuredly guarantee they will not move assets for a 3 month rental for a guy like Gasol.


Secondly, to your point about Mike Brown's offense and dribbling the clock out. He said in the post game after Minnesota win that they called a play and Kyrie waved it off to go one on one. Sort of threw him under the bus there to prove his point that he is the coach. Kyrie needs something like that, in my opinion, if he wants to be great. He was so aloof to anything Byron Scott said at the end, I think that was as big of a reason for the coaching change as any. Byron acted tough, but would never cross Kyrie, he would take out his "anger" on the guys on the pine like CJ Miles for example.

I did see the video and I do expect a trade ... you're probably right about Gasol though.

I only get to see the games on league pass not any post game on there. So I did not know that - I couldn't believe they even won that game. I'm impressed by CJ Miles - and happy to see Bynum actually able to move. I think Kyrie will be fine and IF Lebron comes back I can see this team win multiple championships.

I don't bet, but if I was a betting man, I would say the likelihood that Lebron comes back to Cleveland is about 25-30%.
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Old 11-06-2013, 05:12 PM   #99 (permalink)
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My point is he doesn't HAVE to score that much for the cavs to win now.

Did anyone see kyries 4th quarters vs the thunder and hornets last year? Never have I seen such domination in every facet of the game then I did when he lit up hornets.

Also, u telling me if kyrie goes out and scores 30 tonight with 8 assists that you guys will still be baggin on him? Yea right
I think you are missing the point. It is not about his production, it is about his production in relation to the value of his cards. Right now, his past production and career path (even if assuming 10x AS) simply don't justify the prices.

Can't reference Chris Paul values enough - much cheaper than Kyrie, and Kyrie will be lucky to have Paul's career.
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Old 11-06-2013, 06:38 PM   #100 (permalink)
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Kyrie will NEVER be cp3. cp3 was a born epitome of the PG position...pure facilitator, best court vision since Magic, with the scoring ability to boot.

I see Kyrie as more a fusion between Marburry and Tim Hardaway. Flashy ball skills with the ability to drop 22 a night.

But yeah...cp3 is a great indicator to see where Kyrie's prices will be headed in 3 to 5 years. Even as a perennial all star with mvp trophies, his stuff has nowhere to go but down.

The ONLY time chris's prices experienced a slight surge again was right after he was traded to the Clips and fans went on a buying spree. They then fell back down to original levels.
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