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Old 11-13-2013, 08:50 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Cool hate to say it but those who said immaculate > flawless have alot of explaining to do

All I heard when Flawless came out was how bad or overpriced it was and how great Immaculate was going to be based on previews. But what Panini failed to preview was the redemptions, sticker autographs and EVENT (not game used) jersey/patches in this product. Not to mention how many scrub players that are included in this product. Fab Melo, Quincy Acy, Robert Sacre, Nolan Smith, Lance Thomas, Jon Leuer, Chris Singleton and the list goes on and on and on...

I will be getting six boxes in today and i'm actually glad I got cut back 50% of what I was supposed to get because the only way that this product is worth opening is if you pull a logoman (which the odds are quite slim).

I know its early, but from what has been shown on eBay and on Blowout, you all have to admit the product has been far from superior to Flawless. I know the price point is 1/3 of Flawless (at least on release date) but at least with Flawless you can expect decent hits within EVERY box.

I know I will have some haters in this thread, but honestly who is truly impressed with this product so far? I'm not trying to bash the product, I'm simply stating my opinion that Immaculate to me is not better than Flawless.

Oh and I will post my results in a few hours of my breaks. I'm still on the fence whether or not I even want to open them...

Last edited by LeonfromNC; 11-13-2013 at 09:04 AM.
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Old 11-13-2013, 08:54 AM   #2 (permalink)
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panini will love this thread
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Old 11-13-2013, 09:00 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by benz35 View Post
panini will love this thread
My intention is not to bash the product, but to simply ask those who were saying this product was so much better than flawless to step up and clarify again why.

That is all.
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Old 11-13-2013, 09:08 AM   #4 (permalink)
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my guess is that a lot of the immaculate hypers have gone into hiding. maybe the most overhyped product in history after seeing the shitt quality
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Old 11-13-2013, 09:08 AM   #5 (permalink)
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I am totally with you. The print run makes it hard for the product to justify the hype overall. If you hit something it's a big bang. If...
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Old 11-13-2013, 09:11 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Flawless clearly has the better return; there is a steady medium to above average ROI. Immaculate is a much bigger risk and gamble. There will be very highs and very lows; very little in the middle.
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Old 11-13-2013, 09:12 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LeonfromNC View Post
All I heard when Flawless came out was how bad or overpriced it was and how great Immaculate was going to be based on previews. But what Panini failed to preview was the redemptions, sticker autographs and EVENT (not game used) jersey/patches in this product. Not to mention how many scrub players that are included in this product. Fab Melo, Quincy Acy, Robert Sacre, Nolan Smith, Lance Thomas, Jon Leuer, Chris Singleton and the list goes on and on and on...

I will be getting six boxes in today and i'm actually glad I got cut back 50% of what I was supposed to get because the only way that this product is worth opening is if you pull a logoman (which the odds are quite slim).

I know its early, but from what has been shown on eBay and on Blowout, you all have to admit the product has been far from superior to Flawless. I know the price point is 1/3 of Flawless (at least on release date) but at least with Flawless you can expect decent hits within EVERY box.

I know I will have some haters in this thread, but honestly who is truly impressed with this product so far? I'm not trying to bash the product, I'm simply stating my opinion that Immaculate to me is not better than Flawless.

Oh and I will post my results in a few hours of my breaks. I'm still on the fence whether or not I even want to open them...
were people really arguing the ROI on immaculate would be higher than flawless? the consensus seemed to be that flawless has very consistent positive returns, while immaculate is purely feast or famine. i thought the majority of the bickering was mainly about card design. then again, theres been so many damn threads about this product that i've lost track of just about everything at this point.
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Last edited by AlabamaSlamma; 11-13-2013 at 09:15 AM.
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Old 11-13-2013, 09:16 AM   #8 (permalink)
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I agree. I broke even with flawless 3 cases, after stashing 9 PC Cards from the breAk. Most fun I've had breaking in a long time. Immaculate might as well be called hoops compared to Fawkes. That said my first case of immaculate was pretty good. I did not get anything worth keeping so I'm selling it all. I've sold 5 cards already, my conservative estimate is that I wo CLEAR 83% of what input. Still MUCH better than most product. My RCs SUCKED!!! Lebron patch and dwade driving my value.
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Old 11-13-2013, 09:19 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Live Immaculate Case Break

This seemed like a good break!
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Old 11-13-2013, 09:20 AM   #10 (permalink)
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It's been 2 days haha give it time to see what's pulled.
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Old 11-13-2013, 09:32 AM   #11 (permalink)
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I don't see many surprises from immaculate so far. Immaculate has great Rpa's, jumbo patches, and chase cards like logomen.

I think the price is like 55 dollars a card for immaculate (at 2000 a case).

Price is 150 a card for flawless (at 3000 a case)

I expect the average flawless card to be nicer, but I think the best chase cards are in immaculate.
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Old 11-13-2013, 09:43 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by jr22vp View Post
I don't see many surprises from immaculate so far. Immaculate has great Rpa's, jumbo patches, and chase cards like logomen.

I think the price is like 55 dollars a card for immaculate (at 2000 a case).

Price is 150 a card for flawless (at 3000 a case)

I expect the average flawless card to be nicer, but I think the best chase cards are in immaculate.
some very nice chase cards for sure. but overall a pretty crappy looking product. sorry just my honest two cents. some hypers were saying this was the next exquisite. bwahahahahaha all day long!!!!!!!

:turkey::turkey::turkey:
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Old 11-13-2013, 09:43 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Flawless clearly has the better return; there is a steady medium to above average ROI. Immaculate is a much bigger risk and gamble. There will be very highs and very lows; very little in the middle.
Great summary, I felt the same way. It's just like any lottery ticket where the cheaper tickets have the widest range of possibilities.
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Old 11-13-2013, 09:46 AM   #14 (permalink)
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Sorry for all those who put all their turkey eggs in the Immaculate basket instead of having it diversified

:turkey::turkey::turkey:
:turkey::turkey::turkey:
:turkey::turkey::turkey:
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Old 11-13-2013, 09:49 AM   #15 (permalink)
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I think Immaculate has far better chase cards than Flawless. If you talk about return, the perception is that Immaculate is worse. I'd really have to see a lot of case vs case before I could say. I 100% admit that I went from super hyped on Immaculate to uh oh in 2 days LOL. The average break does seem rough so far, but its still too early to judge. I do believe Flawless cards will keep dropping and a lot of them will not hold their value.

At the end of the day I'm glad both products exist. I'm glad that we have something to talk about, new products to break and new cards to chase. While I'll never want to pull a Robert Sacre, I would love to pick up a card of his on the secondary market. A lot of people do collect guys outside the top few so its nice that they have nice cards made of them too. I really don't know why we do this Flawless vs Immaculate thing. Its like Playstation vs Xbox.. iOS vs Android.. its stupid.

If you like the product, buy it. If you don't, then don't buy it. Simple as that.
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Old 11-13-2013, 09:50 AM   #16 (permalink)
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People seem to forget how bad of a return (or in hobby terms how big of a hit or miss) Ultimate Collection used to be when it was $100 a pack for 4 cards including 1 GU or Auto and 3 other cards.....
This is basically comparable imo
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Old 11-13-2013, 09:53 AM   #17 (permalink)
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Diamond 1/1 Lebron and Kobe are pretty good chase cards
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Old 11-13-2013, 09:55 AM   #18 (permalink)
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Look at the case break in the basketball box break section sick a ton of big hits just give the product time it's amazing.Ive only seen one full case break and it was great.
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Old 11-13-2013, 09:59 AM   #19 (permalink)
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I don't think people will care about immaculate in three months.
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Old 11-13-2013, 10:00 AM   #20 (permalink)
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Quote:
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Look at the case break in the basketball box break section sick a ton of big hits just give the product time it's amazing.Ive only seen one full case break and it was great.
I would be saying the same thing if I was opening 20-50 cases of this garbage ..



How many immaculate cards do you plain on keeping .

I mean you loved nt how many cards did you keep out of your 25-50 cases of that ?
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Old 11-13-2013, 10:01 AM   #21 (permalink)
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Diamond 1/1 Lebron and Kobe are pretty good chase cards
Don't worry, I'm sure all those Wilts, Pistole Petes, Kobe's, Kyrie's, Durant's Rookie Base and Auto's will all lose 66.6% of their value in the next 6 weeks.
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Old 11-13-2013, 10:05 AM   #22 (permalink)
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I was a bigger believer in Immaculate and still am. The main thing for me is price point. I can afford to buy some boxes of Immaculate if I choose to, Flawless is way out of my price range. I think that alone had a lot to do with the hype around Immaculate, it's a product that while still on the higher side, average collectors can still buy it and get some nice cards and hope for that huge lotto ticket. Sure Flawless gives you a much better chance of breaking even on the box/case price but is that ALL its about anymore? I think Immaculate should be compared to National Treasures instead of Flawless, the two products fall more in line with one another.

Also meant to ask where was all the outrage when NT had event/player worn patches for rookies as well? Flawless has been the only product to claim that everything would be game worn. Isn't this the case with every release, rookies are event/player worn and vets are game worn? Obviously not with Flawless, but everything else right?
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Old 11-13-2013, 10:12 AM   #23 (permalink)
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Immaculate Logomen are the big chase cards! Everything else is just fillers.
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Old 11-13-2013, 10:12 AM   #24 (permalink)
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I would be saying the same thing if I was opening 20-50 cases of this garbage ..



How many immaculate cards do you plain on keeping .

I mean you loved nt how many cards did you keep out of your 25-50 cases of that ?
Man all I'm saying is the one full case break I saw it was great did you see it. I mean there have not been many full case breaks yet give it time it's been 2 days.
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Old 11-13-2013, 10:20 AM   #25 (permalink)
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Almost all of the best cards in this hobby started out affordable which allowed regular collectors to pull them or acquire them at reasonable prices. Flawless cards are nicer, but the price point limits the collector base for them IMO.
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