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Old 07-18-2015, 09:12 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default 1984 Jordan XRC and pricing

Which do you consider as the real RC? Fleer or Star?

How much is the fair price for Bgs 8 and Bgs 8.5 for 1984 Star? couldnt find much reference on ebay.

Appreciate sharing your thoughts.
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Old 07-18-2015, 09:37 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Just my opinion , I consider his Real rookie to be the Star rookie,mainstream collectors like to put fleer card as the rookie , but I feel real collectors see the Star rookie to be "holy grail" if u will Rookie card. Just my opinion.Bay has one at BIN for $5k for bgs 8.
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Old 07-18-2015, 09:43 PM   #3 (permalink)
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I think the Star Rookie cards have higher value than the Fleer with same grades.


Ebay Sold Prices of Star Michael Jordan Rookie Card

SOLD ebay 86 Fleer MJ Rookie BGS 8
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Old 07-18-2015, 09:55 PM   #4 (permalink)
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I would think that there are 300 Fleer rookies to every 1 Star XRC.
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Old 07-19-2015, 12:02 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gottagitdemjs View Post
I would think that there are 300 Fleer rookies to every 1 Star XRC.
Not quite but the difference is still staggering enough, making the 1984 Star #101 card one of the best investments in the hobby with tremendous upside.

The Pop Report of the total number of graded cards of the two cards according to the data publicly provided by the websites of the Big 3 grading companies (PSA, BGS, SGC)
(as of today, July 18, 2015):

1986-87 Fleer #57 Michael Jordan
14,790 + 8,029 + 1,447 = 24,266

1984-85 Star #101 Michael Jordan
398

That is a mind-boggling Ratio of 61 to 1

Throw in the fact that the Star was made in MJ's true rookie season of 1984-85 and a card made a full TWO years earlier than the 1986 Fleer, give me the Star any day .... and twice on Sunday
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Old 07-19-2015, 12:07 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Its probably one of the most underrated cards, but that's the nature of the hobby.

Hype sells more than significance
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Old 07-19-2015, 12:11 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoopsfanatic View Post
Not quite but the difference is still staggering enough, making the 1984 Star #101 card one of the best investments in the hobby with tremendous upside.

The Pop Report of the total number of graded cards of the two cards according to the data publicly provided by the websites of the Big 3 grading companies (PSA, BGS, SGC)
(as of today, July 18, 2015):

1986-87 Fleer #57 Michael Jordan
14,790 + 8,029 + 1,447 = 24,266

1984-85 Star #101 Michael Jordan
398

That is a mind-boggling Ratio of 61 to 1

Throw in the fact that the Star was made in MJ's true rookie season of 1984-85 and a card made a full TWO years earlier than the 1986 Fleer, give me the Star any day .... and twice on Sunday
Awesome detail.

I would respond though that using this as a comparison is problematic given that the star xrc was not grades by either Psa or bgs until fairly recently (the last few years).

In any case, I agree that the star is on a different level.
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Old 07-19-2015, 12:22 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Id say fair value on bgs 8 is 4000-5000 range and bgs 8.5 is 5000-7000. The ranges depend on the subs. Fact that both are hard to come by also makes the price range a bit.
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Old 07-19-2015, 12:24 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Star RC vs Fleer RC comes down to this...

Fleer RC ; people outside the hobby buying in, want that card above all else...It's THE Basketball card...It's known as his RC card and that will NEVER change, even if you don't agree with it...

Star RC ; people inside the hobby start to lean towards it, it's starting to become "as" sort after to the people IN THE HOBBY as the Fleer is, in some regards even more so because of production numbers and the time frame it was made.

The debate on what is his real rookie is lame, the star 101 is, but because it wasn't put into packs and distributed like the Fleer, it will never have the same MASS following, which doesn't mean it won't surpass the Fleer value...

The Star RC will never get the outside hobby following the Fleer retains, so for that, each card holds a special place in the hobby and will forever remain, although it's not from a lack of trying in some peoples case on this very site...
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Old 07-19-2015, 12:32 AM   #10 (permalink)
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From what I was informed, MJ's Fleer RC is the only rookie card that has been licensed by the NBA. I could be wrong though.
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Old 07-19-2015, 12:33 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jphj012 View Post
From what I was informed, MJ's Fleer RC is the only rookie card that has been licensed by the NBA. I could be wrong though.
Star is nba licensed as well
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Old 07-19-2015, 01:12 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Star is my answer, however I think the Fleer looks better. Star #101 has almost doubled in price in the last 2 years.
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Old 07-19-2015, 01:53 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoopsfanatic View Post
Not quite but the difference is still staggering enough, making the 1984 Star #101 card one of the best investments in the hobby with tremendous upside.

The Pop Report of the total number of graded cards of the two cards according to the data publicly provided by the websites of the Big 3 grading companies (PSA, BGS, SGC)
(as of today, July 18, 2015):

1986-87 Fleer #57 Michael Jordan
14,790 + 8,029 + 1,447 = 24,266

1984-85 Star #101 Michael Jordan
398

That is a mind-boggling Ratio of 61 to 1

Throw in the fact that the Star was made in MJ's true rookie season of 1984-85 and a card made a full TWO years earlier than the 1986 Fleer, give me the Star any day .... and twice on Sunday
I would think the ratio isn't quite this high due to all the crossing over and regrades done to this card. The pop numbers go up but the real population could be considerably lower.
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Old 07-19-2015, 03:12 AM   #14 (permalink)
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I would think the ratio isn't quite this high due to all the crossing over and regrades done to this card. The pop numbers go up but the real population could be considerably lower.
True. Judging from the posts here in BO alone, crossing over and resubmissions are prevalent among Jordan RCs so the pop report is definitely overstated.

Fleer RC also depicts the classic young Jordan, soaring high above all going for a one handed dunk! Star XRC on the other hand shows Jordan on a rebounding pose and reminds us that Knick rival Charles Oakley was once a teammate of Jordan before getting traded to Knicks before Cartwright lol.
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Old 07-19-2015, 04:19 AM   #15 (permalink)
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Star is 1951 Bowman Mantle.
Fleer is 1952 Topps Mantle.
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Old 07-19-2015, 06:32 AM   #16 (permalink)
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Quote:
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Star is 1951 Bowman Mantle.
Fleer is 1952 Topps Mantle.
There are two major flaws in your analogy.

(1) The Star is worth more then the Fleer, grade for grade, multiples for that matter.

(2) The ratio of the Mantle Bowman/Topps card is nowhere near the 61 to 1 MJ Fleer/Star ratio. Not even remotely close.

I will say that the 52T is like the 86F in that they are more popular and are both hobby icons. Those two facts are indisputable. But that is where the major similarities end.
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Old 07-19-2015, 01:13 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scqg View Post
Which do you consider as the real RC? Fleer or Star?

How much is the fair price for Bgs 8 and Bgs 8.5 for 1984 Star? couldnt find much reference on ebay.

Appreciate sharing your thoughts.
The 1984 Star is a killer and is considered the Holy Grail by many folks, but, if you ever buy one, make sure that it is already graded. From what I've heard there are so many fakes/copies floating around that it is hella risky to buy a raw one.
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Old 07-19-2015, 11:53 PM   #18 (permalink)
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The 1984 Star is a killer and is considered the Holy Grail by many folks, but, if you ever buy one, make sure that it is already graded. From what I've heard there are so many fakes/copies floating around that it is hella risky to buy a raw one.
yup, i only buy graded across all jordans for peace of mind.
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Old 07-20-2015, 01:38 AM   #19 (permalink)
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When you think of the basketball sportscard hobby, it's not George Mikan's Bowman card , Bill Russell's Topps card or Wilt Chamberlain's Fleer card. It's not Jordan's Star card.....it's Jordans Fleer card that is basketball's iconic card.....
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Old 07-20-2015, 02:34 AM   #20 (permalink)
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Old 07-20-2015, 08:49 AM   #21 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Archangel1775 View Post
.....it's Jordans Fleer card that is basketball's iconic card.....
This right here....the debate is moot....the 86 Fleer is "the" card
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Old 07-20-2015, 09:12 AM   #22 (permalink)
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The OP's question was which is his true rookie card. The answer should be, without question the 1984-85 Star #101.

The Beckett "definition" stating that a RC needs to be pack distributed is rubbish. The Star is a fully licensed card that was released 2 full seasons before the 1986-87 Fleer. I think Beckett's definition is completely off. Maybe it carried weight back when their monthly price guide was considered the pricing bible but the modern market is purely based on recent sales data that can easily be tracked via VCP/ebay etc. As such, I don't see a need to be tethered to their arbitrary rules governing what constitutes a "RC".

In my opinion, it is the first licensed card depicting a player in his professional uniform.

Now, what is the more sought after card and the more iconic card? No debate there. The 1986-87 Fleer is the single most iconic basketball card out there. At the time none of the 3 main manufacturers (Topps, Donruss, Fleer) were making NBA cards and this ushered the return. It brought basketball back into the mainstream (sort of) and is a historically significant set. The MJ is an iconic image and a much better looking card.
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Old 07-20-2015, 01:43 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Default Buy Both OP

Buy Both and you won't have to worry anymore
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Old 07-20-2015, 02:06 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Short answer, I've been around long enough (god I feel old at times) to remember when the Star card was the RC. Then late 80's early 90's we decided (ok beckett decided and the industry just went with it) to give us new definitions of "rookie card". Since then it's kinda gone all over the place and now it basically boils down to personal preference and sport. I mean lets look at barry bonds for a minute. At one point his 87 cards were the rookies and the 86 card xrc's. Before that the 86's were the RC's and the 87's were just cards. It got so silly that in hockey they started printing cards of players YEARS before they were drafted just in case they became a big deal later so they could have the rookie card. Which lead to a change in the rules to when a card could be issued. Oh and then on top of that you have the "parallel" thing. In some sports rookie parallel's are highly sought after and considered rookies. In others they sell for LESS than the regular card.

So basically you're asking for an answer to a question that we've been arguing as a hobby for like 25 years. The answer will vary depending on who you ask. I am completely convinced there is no "right" answer anymore. So frankly I just buy what I want.
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Old 07-20-2015, 06:31 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sportscardmania View Post
Star is my answer, however I think the Fleer looks better. Star #101 has almost doubled in price in the last 2 years.
its actually more the doubled. i bought my bgs 8 copy a year and a half ago for $1600, it looks like they are now going for over 4K. the fleer as almost doubled though.
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