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Old 10-01-2013, 03:25 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default Fake or just toning?

Just showing the front and back for reference.





And heres the edge. A family member of mine bought this years ago and said it was from some sort of hoard sale thing. I guess a ton of these were found and sold off. I dont know if it was from a coin shop or QVC or whatever.



This coin just looks very clean and I dont want to grade it or anything and pay those fees just to have it sent back as fake.

Also they bought these probably 15-25 years ago

They bought around 100 of them and at the time they were not too expensive

The years I ended up with were:

1x 1884
2x 1885
5x 1886
1x 1889
1x 1890
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Old 10-01-2013, 03:35 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Looks like a real Morgan to me. Definitely cleaned though
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Old 10-01-2013, 03:38 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Looks like a real Morgan to me. Definitely cleaned though
That's the only thing that scared me. 120+ year old coin that looks new...but like I said my family member ( Uncle) told me that when he bought them he was told a large number of them were found. I dont know if this means the US Mint found them or saved them.
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Old 10-02-2013, 02:51 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Not sure if you have a good scale but it should weigh 26.73 grams +/- .02 grams

Any more than that and the siver alloy may be different (fake). The coin is too nice to be more than .02 grams difference due to wear.

It should also measure 38.1 mm in diameter (a micrometer will help)

When in doubt I go to my local coin shop and have the owner look at my coins to be sure.
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Old 10-02-2013, 03:04 PM   #5 (permalink)
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I don't really have a state of the art scale...just a crappy one for kitchen use. It only goes to round numbers. They are weighed between 27-28
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Old 10-02-2013, 03:23 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Are all your coins "toned" evenly around the rim, like that one. If so, I would say they are fake, and mixed with two different alloys)Morgans, are the # 1 faked coin in the world. I could 10,000 of them, and have them delivered by tomorrow morning. Just look at ebay, there are TON's of fakes on there. There are fakes all the way down to single silver dimes( that are worth around $2.00, so if they will fake them, they are faking everything.

You need to buy a better scale, you can get one on amazon or ebay, for less than $20.

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Old 10-02-2013, 03:27 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Not sure if you have a good scale but it should weigh 26.73 grams +/- .02 grams

Any more than that and the siver alloy may be different (fake). The coin is too nice to be more than .02 grams difference due to wear.

It should also measure 38.1 mm in diameter (a micrometer will help)

When in doubt I go to my local coin shop and have the owner look at my coins to be sure.
This is some of the best advice on here. So many new "collectors/investors" start buying silver without buying the right equipment first. I have seen APMEX, the largest PM dealer in the country get burned on fakes. I wouldn't buy 1 oz of silver, before owning at least a micrometer and scale.


If you guys think patch faking in this hobby is bad, it is a drop in the hat to the fakes in the coin industry. There are literally millions of dollars of coins shipped to our country weekly. And most of them are finding there way into "collectors" hands because they don't know what they are buying.

If anyone on here has bought silver/gold on ebay, from a private seller. I would say 1 in 5, you have some fake PM's in your stash.
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Old 10-02-2013, 03:31 PM   #8 (permalink)
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And even worse now the companies( I know one website, I won't give out the name, so don't ask) sell the coins in varying conditions, so people thinking they are safe buying lower condition coins, but they are faked as well. This same website sells fakes on everything, you want a "brand new 2014 Toyota Corolla for $3,999" they have it. Anything from coins, to video games, tv's shoes, cars, boats. This one website has it all, of course all this junk is coming from China. I don't understand how our gov't cannot put a stop to this, I would assume it is very easy to see a huge ship coming into port, and it is all faked goods.
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Old 10-02-2013, 03:55 PM   #9 (permalink)
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I have bought and sold hundreds of morgans on ebay. Not one fake bought or sold. I did see some fake morgans that were cast at the flea market years ago. Really if you no what your buying you can spot a fake without weighing or micing them. The chinese are faking high dollar coins mostly not common morgans. At one time they were faking slabs also. I read about some PCGS before they added the hologram. Thats why you should always go to PCGS website look up the coin to make sure its legit. Those morgans look real to me but need better pictures. Rim or edge toning doesn't mean there fake. The fed gov had millions of morgans sitting in 1000 coin bags that were never circulated. In the early seventies nixon had the GSA morgan sales also. UNC morgans are not uncommon.
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Old 10-02-2013, 04:03 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Informative thread 2 thumbs up!!!
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Old 10-02-2013, 05:06 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Well this is depressing lol.

When did the major influx of the fake morgans start?
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Old 10-02-2013, 05:29 PM   #12 (permalink)
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I have bought and sold hundreds of morgans on ebay. Not one fake bought or sold. I did see some fake morgans that were cast at the flea market years ago. Really if you no what your buying you can spot a fake without weighing or micing them. The chinese are faking high dollar coins mostly not common morgans. At one time they were faking slabs also. I read about some PCGS before they added the hologram. Thats why you should always go to PCGS website look up the coin to make sure its legit. Those morgans look real to me but need better pictures. Rim or edge toning doesn't mean there fake. The fed gov had millions of morgans sitting in 1000 coin bags that were never circulated. In the early seventies nixon had the GSA morgan sales also. UNC morgans are not uncommon.
They are still faking PCGS and NGC. And believe me they are faking common morgans as well as 1964 quarters and dimes(every year, every demoniation). And I guarantee you cannot tell the difference without weighing them(some even weigh the right amount bit once XRF'd, they were proven fake). I know a grader from PCGS, and they said they were extremely hard to detect.
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Old 10-02-2013, 06:06 PM   #13 (permalink)
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This is making me want to sell all of my 90% coins and just focus on .999 ASE and other collectible coins. I don't want to hold onto stuff and 10 years from now find out the stuff is fake when I go to sell it. Im positive the majority of my stuff is real but you never know. Im not an expert in this field. So I would rather buy the for sure things. When I comes to cards there are not many things that stump me so im able to make educated buys.
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Old 10-03-2013, 08:53 AM   #14 (permalink)
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Any coin shops in the area to check them out? Im sure they would do a trade for your 90% as well
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Old 10-03-2013, 10:17 AM   #15 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by twoten01 View Post
They are still faking PCGS and NGC. And believe me they are faking common morgans as well as 1964 quarters and dimes(every year, every demoniation). And I guarantee you cannot tell the difference without weighing them(some even weigh the right amount bit once XRF'd, they were proven fake). I know a grader from PCGS, and they said they were extremely hard to detect.
So they will fake a common silver dime that has a melt value of $ 1.58? How can it be cost effective to do that. Your telling me they are hacking PCGS/NGC websites and registering there own serial numbers and grades? For common silver coins you can drop them on a table surface to tell if there silver. They have a alloy that makes the same ring? 95% of my collection is from the nineties back. All of my high dollar coins are graded and serial number checked. So the counterfeiters are using presses just like the mint to Make a fake 90% coin? I no counterfeits are in circulation. But you are sounding like 1-10 coins on ebay is a fake? Do you take your scales and Micrometer to the coin shows and ask to weigh and mic before you buy a coin?
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Old 10-03-2013, 10:47 AM   #16 (permalink)
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Yes they are faking slabbed coins, straight from NGC's website:
Counterfeit NGC Holders

A warning from PCGS on their fakes floating around:
PCGS Warns Against Fake Slabs

More good info on counterfeits:
Identify Fake Counterfeit Trade Dollar : Morgan Dollar Images

Gotta love the chinese for flooding the market with crap.....
Chinese Coin Counterfeting Ring Makes Fake Silver Coins - Fake US Coins & Fake Crowns


If you are like me, you work hard for your money. Make sure you get what you think you are buying. Good luck
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Old 10-03-2013, 11:00 AM   #17 (permalink)
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So they will fake a common silver dime that has a melt value of $ 1.58? How can it be cost effective to do that. Your telling me they are hacking PCGS/NGC websites and registering there own serial numbers and grades? For common silver coins you can drop them on a table surface to tell if there silver. They have a alloy that makes the same ring? 95% of my collection is from the nineties back. All of my high dollar coins are graded and serial number checked. So the counterfeiters are using presses just like the mint to Make a fake 90% coin? I no counterfeits are in circulation. But you are sounding like 1-10 coins on ebay is a fake? Do you take your scales and Micrometer to the coin shows and ask to weigh and mic before you buy a coin?
That is the crazy part, there have always been fakes of the key date coins. It wasn't until someone(on a coin website) found this website based out of China, and yes they now sell dimes, quarters, halves in every year/mint mark. I have no idea how they make profit. But I know someone who ordered from this site(he is going to put out a book/guide on all of these new fakes, and he already marked the coins "copy"so he will have no legal issues), and he told me the owner of the site, told him, they can send orders of up to $10,000 fv, for just pennies on the dollar.

I believe they find serial #'s from legit coins, and just print out a fake label, with someone elses serial # (so it is possible to find out the fakes, if you had say a 1921 Morgan for a few decades and now, someone else has one, with the same serial #, you know the new one is fake). I am not big buyer of graded coins, so I am assuming this is how it is done.

From what I have been told, the ring test on these, are near identical to real silver. The orginal purchaser(who is writing the guide), sent me a dime to examine last year, and it is near identical to a real silver dime( I thought the ring was a little off, but nothing like how a newer dime sounds)

I am not sure how prevalent these are(the high quality fakes), but when you can buy $1,000 fv, for $100 or so, and sell them on ebay for $15,000+. You and I both know, there are enough scumbags out there, that if they can get away with it they will.(Look how many scammers are on this site alone)

I only purchase from trusted sellers(and there are alot on ebay, you just have to research them, and ebay's feedback is useless)
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Old 10-03-2013, 11:11 AM   #18 (permalink)
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This is making me want to sell all of my 90% coins and just focus on .999 ASE and other collectible coins. I don't want to hold onto stuff and 10 years from now find out the stuff is fake when I go to sell it. Im positive the majority of my stuff is real but you never know. Im not an expert in this field. So I would rather buy the for sure things. When I comes to cards there are not many things that stump me so im able to make educated buys.
Not to scare you off,lol but collectible coins are the ones that are the most faked. i would say conservatively 50% of Panda's on ebay are fake(I personally would say higher than 85%. Same with Kook's and any coin that sells above melt. And this same site has ASE's, hell you can buy a brand new boat that retails for $20k, for $4k, brand new Nike's that don't even come out to next year, for $25-35(if Nike has released a picture of an upcoming shoe, this website is already selling them). This site has everything(there are literally over 1100 pages of merchandise for sale, and it is all fake crap.


the worst part of all of this, is supposedly the owner's of this website, are huge players in China, exporting and importing. And the company's name has been mentioned before on CNN(the business name is very close to their website that sells all this fake crap), so the US gov't knows this is happening, and they don't seem to be doing anyting about it. But if you are I, were to make one fake coin, the secret service would me knocking down our doors.
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Old 10-03-2013, 01:09 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Ive checked it out before and its ridiculous. Im not sure why you are not saying the name though
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Old 10-03-2013, 03:39 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Think how many scammers have been on this(are currently on this site), if I were to post the name, the market would get even more flooding with this crap. You won't find this site, buy just looking for PM's. So you don't have to worry about buying this junk, I just wanted to warn newer collectors and investors, to study what they are buying before making major purchases.


I would say if you are buying on ebay, like with anything, due some research, if you see the seller is from China, I would stay away. If there are from the US and are selling other highley faked items, I would stay away. There are tons of reputable sellers(quite a few who do millions yearly in sale) on ebay, just don't buy from anyone, becuase it might be $1 or 2 cheaper.
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