20 Cases of 2012 Bowman Draft - Player Draft

[mgugs46]

Originally Posted by primecardz

The slot also states (24). I would agree with you if there were not stated odds on the promotion sheet. There are never stated odds on a specific player.

I just don't agree with your rational, just my opinion though.

If there really is less code cards per box/case then it just makes them more valuable no?

I dont think anything needs to be done IMO

[primecardz]

Also, we changed the pick structure based on the promo sheet odds, whats wrong with making a change to correct it?

[notsublime]

Originally Posted by primecardz

Also, we changed the pick structure based on the promo sheet odds, whats wrong with making a change to correct it?

Correct what? It's still a half case of codes.

[mgugs46]

Originally Posted by notsublime

Correct what? It's still a half case of codes.

This.

I guess I don't see the major issue here. I know it was supposed to be 24 per slot, but if there is only 12 per half case, wouldn't they be just as valued as if the cards fell 24 per half case?

[NeedChapmans]

Originally Posted by mgugs46

This.

I guess I don't see the major issue here. I know it was supposed to be 24 per slot, but if there is only 12 per half case, wouldn't they be just as valued as if the cards fell 24 per half case?

I've tried to explain this ... to no avail.

I understand the points made by those upset, but at the end of the day, these are the cards we were dealt.

Pun intended.

[nordy22]

For the person who has the most invested into them. I personally am disappointed, i drafted these spots solely on the amount i was under the assumption of getting. Had the odds been right 2 per box i would have taken other slots well before the the code slots, but not much i can do now...........

[uberfatty]

Originally Posted by primecardz

Also, we changed the pick structure based on the promo sheet odds, whats wrong with making a change to correct it?

Because pick structure changed before the draft happened. Can't go back and change it now atfer everyone drafts.

It's the same case as those who picked Sean Nolin autos in 2012 BC, only to learn after people started breaking that he was extremely SP'd and they may get nothing from the break. Sucks, but that's the chance you take with these things.


And all of that is before we get to the point that the slot says Half case of codes, and ~24 (meaning, expected around 24 but not guaranteed). Sucks, but hopefully the value of the codes does increase because of this. I think it will be modest, maybe a 30-50% increase rather than 100%.

[notsublime]

Originally Posted by nordy22

For the person who has the most invested into them. I personally am disappointed, i drafted these spots solely on the amount i was under the assumption of getting. Had the odds been right 2 per box i would have taken other slots well before the the code slots, but not much i can do now...........

I think it kinda funny. Just like how my strategy on the base cards was changed, after buying up 30 picks. Oh well, half a case, is still half a case.

[NeedChapmans]

Originally Posted by notsublime

I think it kinda funny. Just like how my strategy on the base cards was changed, after buying up 30 picks. Oh well, half a case, is still half a case.

Can u imagine if the code slots fell to you ... and then you learned you were getting half as many?

I may have had to put you on suicide watch!

[notsublime]

Originally Posted by NeedChapmans

Can u imagine if the code slots fell to you ... and then you learned you were getting half as many?

I may have had to put you on suicide watch!

This is true! LOL

[primecardz]

Originally Posted by uberfatty

Because pick structure changed before the draft happened. Can't go back and change it now atfer everyone drafts.

It's the same case as those who picked Sean Nolin autos in 2012 BC, only to learn after people started breaking that he was extremely SP'd and they may get nothing from the break. Sucks, but that's the chance you take with these things.


And all of that is before we get to the point that the slot says Half case of codes, and ~24 (meaning, expected around 24 but not guaranteed). Sucks, but hopefully the value of the codes does increase because of this. I think it will be modest, maybe a 30-50% increase rather than 100%.

The difference here is that Topps did not promote Sean Nolin as being 1:6 packs and then make him 1:12 cases.

For those that think the code cards are now worth double, thats an imposible equation to solve, so good luck. Don't forget these are also seeded in other products with different valuations.

I think most agree it sucks that topps made the bait and switch and since we have the ability to "make it right" since we sold the paper, why don't we.

I'm a little surprised no-one else sees my point, but either way the discussion is healthy.

[notsublime]

Originally Posted by primecardz

The difference here is that Topps did not promote Sean Nolin as being 1:6 packs and then make him 1:12 cases.

For those that think the code cards are now worth double, thats an imposible equation to solve, so good luck. Don't forget these are also seeded in other products with different valuations.

I think most agree it sucks that topps made the bait and switch and since we have the ability to "make it right" since we sold the paper, why don't we.

I'm a little surprised no-one else sees my point, but either way the discussion is healthy.

I agree with you on how Topps loves to do the Bait and Switch. Terrible business management on there part.

[Andrew Jones]

I have no idea why Houdini even bothers with these breaks anymore.

[Orangejello727]

Originally Posted by NeedChapmans

Can u imagine if the code slots fell to you ... and then you learned you were getting half as many?

I may have had to put you on suicide watch!

Im not taking any sides here, but if the codes slots all fell to me, I would be fine with the new odds. Various slots in all breaks are more risky than others. While the odds have changed for the code slot to make it less appealing, its still a risk we took.

If you picked up a base slot of player X and for the oddest reason came out short through out all 20 cases because of a bad sort, is there anything you could do about it?

[Divino]

Originally Posted by Orangejello727

Im not taking any sides here, but if the codes slots all fell to me, I would be fine with the new odds. Various slots in all breaks are more risky than others. While the odds have changed for the code slot to make it less appealing, its still a risk we took.

If you picked up a base slot of player X and for the oddest reason came out short through out all 20 cases because of a bad sort, is there anything you could do about it?

I agree. It's like the people that picked hosmer or ackley auto slots in 2011 bowman chrome, only to find out they were SSPs. I don't believe topps made any indication of that before hand, so it is what it is.

[Orangejello727]

Originally Posted by primecardz

The difference here is that Topps did not promote Sean Nolin as being 1:6 packs and then make him 1:12 cases.

For those that think the code cards are now worth double, thats an imposible equation to solve, so good luck. Don't forget these are also seeded in other products with different valuations.

I think most agree it sucks that topps made the bait and switch and since we have the ability to "make it right" since we sold the paper, why don't we.

I'm a little surprised no-one else sees my point, but either way the discussion is healthy.

That opens the door to so many other problems. What if I chose Auto player X and dont get any from 20 cases? Or get 3 while others get 8 or 9 from their auto slot? Does that mean my spot is shorted and I deserve something?

[otmack2o]

Originally Posted by Orangejello727

If you picked up a base slot of player X and for the oddest reason came out short through out all 20 cases because of a bad sort, is there anything you could do about it?

Originally Posted by uberfatty

It's the same case as those who picked Sean Nolin autos in 2012 BC, only to learn after people started breaking that he was extremely SP'd and they may get nothing from the break. Sucks, but that's the chance you take with these things.

The major difference between this situation in the above noted situations is that you would not know of the above noted situations until after the cases were opened.

In the case of the code card situation, we know before the first box is even delivered.

With that said, I am OK with whatever decision (change, no change, compensation, no compensation, etc.) is made by houdini.

[Dbott1234]

If I get less than 10 Addison Russell auto's, I agree we should redraft and start over!

[zepzoso]

Went back and did A little digging

Originally Posted by NeedChapmans

48 per case ... geesh. That's a total of 960 codes for this case break.

My vote is for Houdini to add two per draft spot / and keep the rest. (If the total is in fact 960)

Houdini then changed the default draft list after hearing comments and concerns with the anouncement of the Code cards.

Originally Posted by houdini

I am changing the draft picks.

I am adding the rookie autos - 1 spot each for all 20 cases. (nice)

I am combining the Bowman Black/Dual auto spots into 1 spot for all 20 cases. (very nice)

I am removing the base and substituting a half case of code cards - should be 24 each spot that will be worth anywhere from $48 to $96ish each spot. I will not be typing or scanning the codes - they will be bagged and added to your packages.

The base WILL be sold to people in the break first and the money used to buy more product. The cards from extra product will be added to the spots... insert spots will get some too spread across all spots.

So we all make an assumption the code spots have a value of anywhere from $48 to $96ish each spot.

Now after we see some breaks and the code cards arent falling even close to the stated odds we have concerns.

(Houdini didnt state the odds so this is none of his fault)

I purposefully bought in to grab these code cards at approx. 24 per half case as some others did also.

Originally Posted by NeedChapmans

Trade Alert

NeedChapmans agrees to receive cash (received)
Zepsoso agrees to receive picks 204, 205, 207, 208, 209 (will confirm)

Thanks Houdini!

I am only stating this, and dont mean to cause any trouble for Houdini but things have changed in the value of 12 codes vs 24.

(again not Houdinis fault cards arent falling as stated odds were announced)

Im sure the prices arent going to go from
$48 to $96
to
$96 to $192

I'll accept whatever is done.
Just wanted to comment to see what everyone is thinking.

I am perfectlly happy with whatever cards I get.

[uberfatty]

Originally Posted by otmack2o

The major difference between this situation in the above noted situations is that you would not know of the above noted situations until after the cases were opened.

In the case of the code card situation, we know before the first box is even delivered.

With that said, I am OK with whatever decision (change, no change, compensation, no compensation, etc.) is made by houdini.

We only know about the code odds because of early breaks, which would theoretically also help determine autos being SSP'd (tougher due to volume of breaking needed, but still possible).

[natbornkiller]

here the solution
remember all those base cards that where pulled by both drafts
we put them back on the table and
for every two slots, you get a case of prospects or rookies dedpending when you took a code
the prospects first 20 people that took 2 codes
remainder get rookies cases

odd numbers would still get 8 or to be worked out

what does adding an extra case really do for the break
12 slots holders will get an extra auto while chrome get what 3 base cards per player (a guess on the number)

[Divino]

Originally Posted by natbornkiller

here the solution
remember all those base cards that where pulled by both drafts
we put them back on the table and
for every two slots, you get a case of prospects or rookies dedpending when you took a code
the prospects first 20 people that took 2 codes
remainder get rookies cases

odd numbers would still get 8 or to be worked out

what does adding an extra case really do for the break
12 slots holders will get an extra auto while chrome get what 3 base cards per player (a guess on the number)

Weren't the base already sold and the extra case ordered with that money? Seems like a bad idea to go back on that now.

[natbornkiller]

Originally Posted by Divino

Weren't the base already sold and the extra case ordered with that money? Seems like a bad idea to go back on that now.

hey , as someone said (paraprashing) sh!it happens

[notsublime]

I have an idea. Leave it alone. Half a case, is still half a case. The code will be worth more is all.
Like someone else said. Don't we have better things to worry about?

[JohnAndrew]

I have zero code card slots, so it should be no mystery as to which horse I have in this race...but it is for the fear of the unknown that I avoided the code cards. On paper, they sounded like a fun deal...on paper, that is, prior to release, and before any of us have seen a promotion like this before. To take a code card slot, even AT the original stated odds, is rolling the dice a little bit, no? And to find that they aren't quite as common as Topps originally said they'd be...well, that's just part of the gamble, right?