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Old 08-14-2008, 04:54 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Default Calling all Shipping to Canada and Paypal experts...

Well, hopefully my long ordeal trying to unload this card is nearing an end. I've started a number of various threads regarding this but to sum things up...I sold a UD redemption for just over $1,000 to a guy with great feedback but haven't gotten paid and have yet to ship obviously.

Where things stand currently...

Oh, I had agreed to pay all S+H and insurance so keep that in mind (leaning towards UPS)...

The buyer is wanting me to value the card at under $50 on the customs form. He is saying that it'd be a minumum of $300 extra he'd have to pay in duty charges if I were to write the true amount. Granted, I'm sure he's greatly exaggerating that amount, but whatever...plus, obviously he knew all of this before bidding. He's actually mentioned that if I were to put more than that low amount and insure it for the full amount he likely wouldn't take the card because of the added cost.

I've shipped very little internationally and nothing this valuable, so what's the best course of action to get this deal done? I mean, there is no way that I can insure the package for $1,000 (to protect myself just in the one in a million chance it gets lost in transit) but only declare a value of like $50 on the customs form, correct?

I unashamedly admit I'm new to all of this selling/shipping stuff, and I want to help the guy out and help other people out in the future, but obviously, and more importantly, I want to cover myself...so if I'm missing something please point it out to me.

The buyer had also mentioned it'd be easiest for him to Paypal me and then I'd just email him the code. However, that'd be a very high risk for me seeing as no physical good exchanged hands. A reply in one of my other threads mentioned I should ask the Paypal experts about that one.

Is there a way that I can get payment and then just give the guy the redemption code w/o worrying that he'll try to pull something a week from now?

Thanks for taking the time to read this mess and thank you all for your help!
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Old 08-14-2008, 08:36 AM   #2 (permalink)
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My 2 cents ???
Be very, very careful .....

1st off be very careful of paypal payment ..... I'm not sure of all the paypal restrictions but I still think you can't ELECTRONICALLY prove receipt to Canada and that's what paypal wants ..... some tracking number they can check online and I"m not 100% sure you can do that to Canada .... I know some people use registered mail but even that I'm not sure off .....
If there's any chance of a chargeback then I would'nt accept Paypal ...

Secondly he asking you to basically lie on a federal form about the value of the card ..... How can you cover yourself with insurance if you don't list the true value and/or selling price of the card ?? You're making out and signing a federal form and if you lie about the value how can you expect to collect if you put insurance on it and IMO insurance is a MUST on a sale of this amount ....
I'm sorry if there are customs/duty but you can't put down $ 45 value on a $ 1,000 sale .....
And you're totally correct about the "code" part .... you'd have zero proof of delivery on paypal so don't do it that way ....

If this was me here's what I'd do ----- I'd tell the buyer upfront that I'm not going to lie on the customs form on card value/selling price and that it must be insured to cover not only myself but the buyer as well and personally I would never accept paypal outside the USA on a item of this value ....... I've seen way to many Paypal horror stories of chargebacks outside the USA --- the buyer maybe a great, standup guy and not have any problem with him and the transaction might go fine BUT are you willing to accept the chance that you might loose not only the card but the money as well ?? I know I would'nt ....
that's what you've got to ask yourself ..... and be sure however you do it to cover yourself as much as possible ....

best of luck ....

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Old 08-14-2008, 09:50 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Thanks for the insights Ron. Well, I think UPS, etc can track online.

One thing I was thinking...what if the guy and I mututally agreed to null the deal on Ebay and complete it off Ebay? If he then paid by check or money order and after it cleared I sent him the code, what kind of shenanigans would I be open to? Or, since there'd be no other groups (Ebay,Paypal) facilitating and overseeing the transaction would I be alright as he'd have nobody to complain to, thus putting all the risk on him?
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Old 08-14-2008, 09:57 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Thanks for the insights Ron. Well, I think UPS, etc can track online.

One thing I was thinking...what if the guy and I mututally agreed to null the deal on Ebay and complete it off Ebay? If he then paid by check or money order and after it cleared I sent him the code, what kind of shenanigans would I be open to? Or, since there'd be no other groups (Ebay,Paypal) facilitating and overseeing the transaction would I be alright as he'd have nobody to complain to, thus putting all the risk on him?
You would have to first file an unpaid item dispute so he probably won't want that(but you never know). He'll have to agree to it. I would only accept a cashiers check and wait for it to clear. The onlyl positive is that you'll save $$$ on Paypal & Ebay Fees.
This is becoming more of a hassle than anything else to me.
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Old 08-14-2008, 10:01 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Email him the code. Send the scratched card to him in Canada via trackable mail (registered) - list the value of the scratched card as $10 because it has no value and if it is lost you are only worried about a chargeback. If he ever charged it back to you all you have to do is to show that you delivered the item and can show SIGNATURE CONFIRMATION (for an item over $250) and you would win the case with Paypal

This way he gets the code. You don't lie on the customs for because a redeemed redemption card is worthless and you are protected against a potential chargeback.

Only risk that you have is that he refuses to sign for it in Canada and then charges back but at that point I would contact Upper Deck and if they have not shipped the card work with them to send the card to you
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Old 08-14-2008, 10:10 AM   #6 (permalink)
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I'm not totally sure on UPS since I've never sent out of the USA with them ....

I looked over your auction and I see you put in there that you would pay for shipping AND insurance so the buyer knows that it's gonna be insured .... IMO he should'nt have bid or should have asked you 1st whether you'd put down a low price value on the customs slip ...
He bought a $ 1000 card and he should expect that card to be insured for that amount --- if Canada has customs/duty on that then that's not your problem ...
I don't like the idea that he's asking you to lie on the customs form --- sends up some red flares for me ..... makes me wonder if he'd "pull" anything else on the transaction ....

And yes if it was me I would only accept a cashier's check (drawn on a USA bank) and let it clear before shipping .... however I also state that in my auctions that I only accept paypal in the USA ....

I've simply seen too many paypal problems where the transaction goes fine ... the customer gets the item .. you have tracking info and signature (you HAVE to get a signature on this if you use UPS or USPS) confirmation and a few weeks later you still get hit with a chargeback and you still get hammered ..... seen many people who did all the right things , have delivery confirmation and still lose a chargeback cause the buyer states "not as described" or something else ....



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Old 08-14-2008, 10:13 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Well, I was thinking along those lines, but wouldn't I be asking for trouble since, sure he got the card but it wasn't as advertised (unscratched in photos etc)? I don't know if I could count on Ebay/Paypal to see my side of it...besides, what if the person redeems the code but did so using a different name/address?

Quote:
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Email him the code. Send the scratched card to him in Canada via trackable mail (registered) - list the value of the scratched card as $10 because it has no value and if it is lost you are only worried about a chargeback. If he ever charged it back to you all you have to do is to show that you delivered the item and can show SIGNATURE CONFIRMATION (for an item over $250) and you would win the case with Paypal

This way he gets the code. You don't lie on the customs for because a redeemed redemption card is worthless and you are protected against a potential chargeback.

Only risk that you have is that he refuses to sign for it in Canada and then charges back but at that point I would contact Upper Deck and if they have not shipped the card work with them to send the card to you
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Old 08-14-2008, 10:28 AM   #8 (permalink)
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hockeyron...excellent feedback or not I've been a little uneasy with this guy from the start to begin with due to a few of his comments so I'm not too surprised over all of this. I'd like to believe he's honest and such, but I'm not willing to risk $1,000 on it...especially of MY money, lol.

I emailed him last night pointing out how I can't see how he could expect me to lie on the form so I'll have to wait to see his response. I have a feeling we'll be parting ways soon.
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Old 08-14-2008, 10:53 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Your auction states paypal is accepted so its up to the buyer to choose how they pay. Send the card let the buyer scratch it, your item description does not state emailing the code so ball is in your court there. As for shipping I'd go with USPS first class international and have the package registed,this will insure it, give tracking #, and it will have to be signed upon reciept. Don't misrepresent the cards value on the customs forms just in case it does get lost if so you'll be out some $$ for sure. IMO the buyer looks trustworthy accept the paypay, ship it as described above and move on.
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Old 08-14-2008, 12:53 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Quote:
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Your auction states paypal is accepted so its up to the buyer to choose how they pay. Send the card let the buyer scratch it, your item description does not state emailing the code so ball is in your court there. As for shipping I'd go with USPS first class international and have the package registed,this will insure it, give tracking #, and it will have to be signed upon reciept. Don't misrepresent the cards value on the customs forms just in case it does get lost if so you'll be out some $$ for sure. IMO the buyer looks trustworthy accept the paypay, ship it as described above and move on.
he's worried about the buyer not accepting the package with the $1k value on the customs form. he doesn't want to have to pay more. I'd tell him to move out of Canada . Plus when he makes payment via paypal is he going to be "confirmed"?
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Old 08-14-2008, 01:39 PM   #11 (permalink)
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I see Looks like UPS is the way to go then UPS: Rates for Customs Clearance into Canada looks like with the right option they will pick up the tab
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Old 08-14-2008, 02:16 PM   #12 (permalink)
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he's worried about the buyer not accepting the package with the $1k value on the customs form. he doesn't want to have to pay more. I'd tell him to move out of Canada . Plus when he makes payment via paypal is he going to be "confirmed"?
Yeah, that's what I've been wondering. Aren't you up a creek if the buyer pays with Paypal and only until they do can you see if they are confirmed or not?
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Old 08-14-2008, 02:28 PM   #13 (permalink)
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I see Looks like UPS is the way to go then UPS: Rates for Customs Clearance into Canada looks like with the right option they will pick up the tab
Thanks! But...it HAS to be too good to be true
Ugh, too bad I volunteered to pay s&h because those upgraded shipping methods would cost me at least another $40.

Ok, I think I should just tell the guy I'm shipping standard ups and declaring everything to the letter. If UPS can pick up those fees for that amount the guy can himself...he was insane quoting an extra $300 he'd have to pay.
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Old 08-14-2008, 02:31 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Yeah, that's what I've been wondering. Aren't you up a creek if the buyer pays with Paypal and only until they do can you see if they are confirmed or not?
Well if he's not confirmed you can refund him his money and move on
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Old 08-14-2008, 04:02 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Ugh...I think I'm finally nearing an end to this hassle.

Well, thanks to coaltown's post I think I've figured a solution. I sent a message to the buyer explaining that if he pays for the card and an extra $50 (to use the premium UPS shipping that waives customs fees) that should be alright and cover us both while keeping forms legit, etc.

He responded it seems fair but says he will send the card back and apply a Paypal charge back right away if there are more fees due once the card gets to him.

I'm off to the UPS store to ask about this and make sure what I'm doing is sound. What do you guys think? I'm honestly almost to the point where I'm thinking, screw it, I should just tell him standard ups (w/ insurance and confirmation to cover myself) like I was going to do and request that he pay because obviously he knew he would be subject to customs fees or duties or whatever the hell they'd make him pay.

Thoughts?
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Old 08-14-2008, 07:00 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Send the card USPS registered mail and insure it.
Put the value at $50 like he asked. He's not B.S ing you about the amount they pay on duty taxes. Your making it to complicated.
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Old 08-14-2008, 07:09 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Yeah, that UPS link coaltown posted was too good to be true. It only covers a fee that is nominal and it'd still be subject to a ton of taxes.
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Old 08-14-2008, 07:10 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Send the card USPS registered mail and insure it.
Put the value at $50 like he asked. He's not B.S ing you about the amount they pay on duty taxes. Your making it to complicated.
Well, but how am I protected then if I declare the value at only $50?

I gotta go blow off some steam by opening up another case of The Cup...the first tin had probably my favorite card I've pulled yet!
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Old 08-14-2008, 07:16 PM   #19 (permalink)
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The paypal payment shows that he paid $1k for the card
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Old 08-14-2008, 07:17 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Well, but how am I protected then if I declare the value at only $50?

I gotta go blow off some steam by opening up another case of The Cup...the first tin had probably my favorite card I've pulled yet!
Wait......are you busting a case of The Cup right now???
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Old 08-14-2008, 07:19 PM   #21 (permalink)
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The paypal payment shows that he paid $1k for the card
Yeah, but he'd pay and then if I sent it out and insured it for only $50, if it were to get lost then the company I had insurance with such as UPS is only going to give me $50 back.
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Old 08-14-2008, 07:19 PM   #22 (permalink)
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You gonna post the break?
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Old 08-14-2008, 07:20 PM   #23 (permalink)
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You gonna post the break?
Yup, soon...I'm all giddy...the first tin yielded a sweet Ovechkin gold base jersey #08/10! Sweet patch!
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Old 08-14-2008, 07:33 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Can't you insure it to CYA for $1k for it to get there and then just declare the Value at $50 on the customs form? That you will both be happy. I doubt the PO will care regardless. Your technically CYA. Just a thought.
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Old 08-14-2008, 08:13 PM   #25 (permalink)
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You send it insured registered mail and then on the customs form, put the value at $50. The declared value has nothing to do with what you insured it for. Will probably cost you around $25 to send it that way. Pretty easy to say that everybody does it this way. Not all items that go through customs are checked.
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