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-   -   Time to boycott eBay NOW! (http://www.blowoutcards.com/forums/ebay-comc-online-selling-shows-paypal-shipping/133863-time-boycott-ebay-now.html)

Screamer 02-23-2011 08:34 PM

Time to boycott eBay NOW!
 
We need to get the trading card community together to another site, or start another site, that wants our business and respects the rights of the seller, along with the buyer

This thread is started to gather information on all possible ways of doing this. I want to know of other auction/sell sites and online banks other then Paypal that can service our needs

Let's start dropping ideas right now

pmannings#1fan 02-23-2011 08:37 PM

1 of us could start one up with that intuit website hosting thing!!!

Screamer 02-23-2011 08:49 PM

[QUOTE=pmannings#1fan;1106876]1 of us could start one up with that intuit website hosting thing!!![/QUOTE]

Was looking at it and it would take alot of work to get that going, but it's on the table

Any established sites out there that we can make our core?

stjoesportscard 02-23-2011 08:56 PM

Its cost me a lot of trades and cards I wanted and Breaks that ive wanted to do... but I havent sold on ebay or used paypal for a while now... so I'm in the boycott. They can up and hurt your reputation at anytime they want and cost you business and never be at fault. I do not care for them at all... and I wont use them... Even if it costs me not getting everything I want...

Screamer 02-23-2011 10:24 PM

[QUOTE=stjoesportscard;1106938]They can up and hurt your reputation at anytime they want and cost you business and never be at fault[/QUOTE]

I feel the same way. The small margine we have to make-up any money w/ our hobby and they can steal it from you w/ no cause. I'm sick of it!

pmannings#1fan 02-23-2011 10:26 PM

[QUOTE=Screamer;1106918]Was looking at it and it would take alot of work to get that going, but it's on the table

Any established sites out there that we can make our core?[/QUOTE]

Not too sure myself but I'll keep my eyes and ears open

IndySportsCards 02-23-2011 10:27 PM

I just had paypal reverse a $299 sale from 4 months ago, even after providing PROOF of delivery. I'm done with ebay, but this was left over from months ago and they're still bending me over.

Screamer 02-23-2011 10:28 PM

Somebody told me about bidstart.com

Looks like they started as stamp dealers and cards are coming on. I'm gonna try it out and see what comes of it

CaptainBOHICA 02-23-2011 10:31 PM

wait for it............waaaaaaaaaaaaaaait for it.....

ManInTheMirror 02-23-2011 10:32 PM

I never use eBay and refuse!!! I've been a member of the revolution for awhile now.

stjoesportscard 02-23-2011 10:51 PM

Well Im not trying to be negative here, but you have to not use paypal either to actually make it a point... They are one... Yes, it sucks and keeps you from doing many things... but I won't put any money into either one and this is coming from a guy who when ebay started up and was going, I praised how great a company they were. After Meg left, it really went downhill I think.

It's one thing I wish COMC would do, is steer away from paypal(I will only do checks and gift certificates). There has to be some type of alternative to paypal. Im hoping eventually COMC becomes greater than ebay with sportscards. I don't know what the answer is right now, but I'll continue to wait and let others support ebay if they choose too, but i wont support Ebay, Paypal, etc.

Screamer 02-23-2011 10:53 PM

I know alot of people use COMC but I think it limits you in how you can sell your cards. I've seen some people complain that when buying many cards, the shipping charge doesn't justify. And the way the whole thing is setup, could you imagine 10 million people sending them cards?

Screamer 02-23-2011 10:55 PM

I think getting away from Paypal is the first step. Take away the control of our money and eliminate the ridiculous fees they charge

pmannings#1fan 02-23-2011 10:56 PM

[QUOTE=Screamer;1107281]Somebody told me about bidstart.com

Looks like they started as stamp dealers and cards are coming on. I'm gonna try it out and see what comes of it[/QUOTE]

Actually bidstart looks promising & their fees seem cheaper!!

Screamer 02-23-2011 11:12 PM

[QUOTE=pmannings#1fan;1107395]Actually bidstart looks promising & their fees seem cheaper!![/QUOTE]

I like the fees; very reasonable. I like the 'No sell; No pay' idea at any price alot

coltsfan23 02-23-2011 11:16 PM

Never mind. I looked further and it looks like they accept Paypal for their listings. You do need to fill in CC information to sign up, though.

stjoesportscard 02-23-2011 11:19 PM

Well at least they are not using paypal.... :)

Does Google Checkout work like paypal?

auctionjmm 02-24-2011 12:02 AM

I will not be joining this revolution. I've come to learn that eBay spoiled many of us, and after years of tax free sales, low fees, and doing whatever the heck we wanted, some sellers now can't handle the structure that was necessary to keep eBay clean and professional.

I was screwed more times as a buyer in the late 90's and early 00's than I was as a seller. Buying on eBay used to be very risky especially for high end stuff. I'd rather be overprotected as a buyer than to have to worry, and I think this whole theory of "seller's rights" is a big fallacy. Sellers, stores, and businesses have never had rights to do anything other than provide the best service they could, and even that hasn't always worked. You should have known this the second you heard about the McDonald's customer who got rich off of a spilled coffee.

eBay's fees are nothing compared to the fees you would accrue as a small business owner anywhere else. The credit card companies have been nailing stores with processing fees for years. That's why you see signs at gas stations and local businesses that say "$10 minimum for credit card purchases" or whatever. So when someone buys a .99 card from you and pays with their credit card via Paypal, Paypal is the one who gets the processing fee and must then charge us a bit to recoup some of that. Furthermore, they are providing an instant payment service that was the first of it's kind and literally revolutionized how we did business. I hated dealing with checks and money orders so I'm glad we have Paypal, and I'd rather pay small eBay and Paypal fees than to have to worry about rent and insurance for a brick and mortar store.

Retail stores deal with returns, rude customers, bounced checks, deceit, and unnecessary complaints ALL THE TIME. Bill collectors wouldn't have jobs if businesses around the world weren't screwed over by their customers every now and then. Spend just 5 minutes in the customer service section of Wal-Mart on a Saturday afternoon and you will see what I mean. Why should your eBay business be granted special privilege to avoid such customers when no other business gets that option?

eBay sellers who lobby for buyer accountability and start "revolutions" over unpaid items and the occasional negative feedback are living in a fantasy world. What retail store or business has ever held you to those standards as a customer? I'm guessing none. As a customer, the ball is always in your court no matter where you go. On any given day you can pull a restaurant manager aside, tell them your steak is cold, overcooked, undercooked, whatever, and chances are you'll get something comped whether it was justified or not. And if you choose not to tip your waitress, there's nothing stopping you there either. You also have the freedom to fill out a negative comment card, tell your friends not to eat at so and so, or post a blog about your experience. You can do whatever you want to tarnish that business with absolutely no repercussion. So in what way does eBay owe you anything more?

Is any of this fair? No. But it hasn't been fair for generations and businesses have had to account for money that they will surely lose to ridiculous customers. eBay will never be able to protect it's sellers the way they can protect their buyers just like U.S. federal laws have never been able to protect businesses from idiot customers. It's all part of the risk you take when running a business, no matter how small it is, and if your business plan doesn't include "dealing with idiot customers", than you shouldn't be in business.

eBay is not to blame. Human behavior is unpredictable and uncontrollable. You have no control over a dishonest buyer who rips you off just like you have no control over the thief who hits you over the head and takes your wallet. It sucks, but it happens, and all you can do is hope the other 99.9% if the time things will be okay.

bziddy 02-24-2011 12:13 AM

+1 to the below.

I've actually looked at what it would take to run an eBay business as a B&M business. I'd have to do a ton of sales to make it worth it (and I don't).

I figure that 15% of my gross is not really that bad to pay to eBay to avoid all the overhead I'd have at a physical retail location. I've been very lucky thus far and my shrink (so to speak) with eBay is 0%. Even CostCo can't touch that number.

And if eBay tells me that I'm not allowed to sell there anymore...oh well...I'll move on and find a different hobby.

I also don't think COMC is the answer to the revolution -- their fees are rediculous (in my mind) compared to eBay fees.

[QUOTE=auctionjmm;1107561]I will not be joining this revolution. I've come to learn that eBay spoiled many of us, and after years of tax free sales, low fees, and doing whatever the heck we wanted, some sellers now can't handle the structure that was necessary to keep eBay clean and professional.

I was screwed more times as a buyer in the late 90's and early 00's than I was as a seller. Buying on eBay used to be very risky especially for high end stuff. I'd rather be overprotected as a buyer than to have to worry, and I think this whole theory of "seller's rights" is a big fallacy. Sellers, stores, and businesses have never had rights to do anything other than provide the best service they could, and even that hasn't always worked. You should have known this the second you heard about the McDonald's customer who got rich off of a spilled coffee.

eBay's fees are nothing compared to the fees you would accrue as a small business owner anywhere else. The credit card companies have been nailing stores with processing fees for years. That's why you see signs at gas stations and local businesses that say "$10 minimum for credit card purchases" or whatever. So when someone buys a .99 card from you and pays with their credit card via Paypal, Paypal is the one who gets the processing fee and must then charge us a bit to recoup some of that. Furthermore, they are providing an instant payment service that was the first of it's kind and literally revolutionized how we did business. I hated dealing with checks and money orders so I'm glad we have Paypal, and I'd rather pay small eBay and Paypal fees than to have to worry about rent and insurance for a brick and mortar store.

Retail stores deal with returns, rude customers, bounced checks, deceit, and unnecessary complaints ALL THE TIME. Bill collectors wouldn't have jobs if businesses around the world weren't screwed over by their customers every now and then. Spend just 5 minutes in the customer service section of Wal-Mart on a Saturday afternoon and you will see what I mean. Why should your eBay business be granted special privilege to avoid such customers when no other business gets that option?

eBay sellers who lobby for buyer accountability and start "revolutions" over unpaid items and the occasional negative feedback are living in a fantasy world. What retail store or business has ever held you to those standards as a customer? I'm guessing none. As a customer, the ball is always in your court no matter where you go. On any given day you can pull a restaurant manager aside, tell them your steak is cold, overcooked, undercooked, whatever, and chances are you'll get something comped whether it was justified or not. And if you choose not to tip your waitress, there's nothing stopping you there either. You also have the freedom to fill out a negative comment card, tell your friends not to eat at so and so, or post a blog about your experience. You can do whatever you want to tarnish that business with absolutely no repercussion. So in what way does eBay owe you anything more?

Is any of this fair? No. But it hasn't been fair for generations and businesses have had to account for money that they will surely lose to ridiculous customers. eBay will never be able to protect it's sellers the way they can protect their buyers just like U.S. federal laws have never been able to protect businesses from idiot customers. It's all part of the risk you take when running a business, no matter how small it is, and if your business plan doesn't include "dealing with idiot customers", than you shouldn't be in business.

eBay is not to blame. Human behavior is unpredictable and uncontrollable. You have no control over a dishonest buyer who rips you off just like you have no control over the thief who hits you over the head and takes your wallet. It sucks, but it happens, and all you can do is hope the other 99.9% if the time things will be okay.[/QUOTE]

Screamer 02-24-2011 12:18 AM

Jmm, I agree with most everything you say. But I still say there's a better way of doing things and I will not sit back and continue with "this is just the way it is". We have been spoiled by eBay. And out of nowhere, they've pounced on us and taken away everything that was good about eBay. Yes, there are going to be unhappy customers; But the idea that 1 or 2 unhappies out of a 1000 transactions a month is going to kick you off the site? I think we can find something better than that.

All auction houses charge fees to the sellers AND buyers. Not eBay. The seller now has all the risk. The buyer risks nothing. The buyer wants to be cheap and doesn't want to pay for DC or insurance and then files a claim w/ Paypal and gets thier money back anyways? I think we can find something better than that

stjoesportscard 02-24-2011 12:30 AM

My reasons are different...

I personally closed my account with ebay and had overpaid my fees by quite a bit because I didn't care to do business with them anymore. My account is closed and has been for years. They wont refund "MY" money and always respond with a general email or letter that they can use them towards future selling fees. Thats not a business that cares anymore. They dont anymore. Ten years ago, EBAY to me was the best thing that ever happened. It wasnt so much a customer that swayed me, or the fees, it was the lack of SERVICE by PAYPAL OR EBAY. They don't care.

Paypal can literally hold your money even in the thousands if they want to. And not just a month, they can wait til they want to or until you have to go out and hire a lawyer to get them to stop. If you happen to come into something where you are making money legally the right away and alot at a time, they can hold it, until they think its clear and legit. Yes, and it can take 6 months. They can also place your account on hold, and ruin customers for you and all sorts of stuff. They dont have rules like a bank. They have many of their own rules and can determine what they want at really any time.

And your right, you cant control all people. But you can also hold people accountable if they make a bid that wins an auction. If they don't pay, they are not welcome back. Sorry, but at a live auction, you don't see 10percent of the customers bid items up at an auction, and than at the end of the auction just leave without paying and end up back at an auction two days later bidding on another item they can decide after winning if they want or dont want.

But guess what, that idiot buyer has the right to leave that auction seller negative feedback and say whatever BS he wants and that seller has to accept that.

Also businesses usually have the option of accepting cash, check, money order, credit card, etc... The Ebay World demands only one form is KING... that is PAYPAL. So pretty much they are monopolizing the market by saying you must pay us credit fees too.

One other thing, the USPS wont refund a package if its damaged or lost if the customer doesnt pay for insurance. But ebay has a different set of rules and a customer sometimes doesnt have to pay a dime to ship.

pmannings#1fan 02-24-2011 12:37 AM

[QUOTE=coltsfan23;1107463]Never mind. I looked further and it looks like they accept Paypal for their listings. You do need to fill in CC information to sign up, though.[/QUOTE]

Which are you talking about, can't be the bidstart.com one cause it says they don't charge for any listing!!

auctionjmm 02-24-2011 12:53 AM

I guess my perspective is somewhat shaped by 12 years of having no "horror stories" to share. Maybe I'm just lucky, but I've never had problems with account freezes, DSR ratings, insurance complications with USPS, etc, so I have no basis to revolt. Furthermore, I've always used Paypal as a second bank account, especially when money market interest rates were high, so I've never feared having my account frozen with my hard earned money just sitting there. And I would be interested in learning more about the circumstances that led others to have this happen to them, because it seems odd to me.

As far as shipping insurance, I've always assumed that responsibility as a seller. Every item I sell above $20 is insured by USPS and I will usually adjust the auction or shipping price to help recoup it. Think about it...if you order a case of cards on Blowout and get free shipping and UPS drops the package in a pond, who assumes the responsibility? Certainly not you. It would be Blowout's responsibility to replace the package and then file an insurance claim with UPS, and if insurance wasn't purchased, BO would be out of luck. They would never say the customer was responsible, and neither would any other mail order business.

This is one of those situations where we all have a different view point and each seller has their own ideas of how things should be. It's no different than politics. I enjoy the debates though and I wish luck to anyone who is able to solve the eBay problems and find something better. I love this hobby and enjoy posting on these boards, and enjoy reading everyone's comments whether I agree or not.

Screamer 02-24-2011 12:55 AM

Agree completely with ya, StJoes

My problem has always been a customer claims my package never got there. They didn't want to pay for insurance or DC, so there's no way of knowing if he's lying or not. He files a claim with Paypal and they say that I have to provide a DC or tracking number. I call them, explain the facts, and they literally tell me that no matter what I put in the auction, I have to ship with DC or insurance or else I'm liable for lost or damaged. That is not the way you do business

And the idea that you can only pay by Paypal? Absolutely ridiculous. eBay has complete control of every dollar that is spent on their site. That is not a free market. That is a monopoly, which last time I looked, is illegal

Screamer 02-24-2011 01:04 AM

Jmm, first off, if I sell an item for $20 or more, I do DC it. That to me is a given. Most of my problems have been from $3-5 auctions

Now if you start adding all the fees up (eBay listing and final fees, Payal fee, USPS w/ DC, bubble, toploader, misc), you're talking about $2.25-$2.50; and the idea that you want to charge that amount and that that can eventually be your downfall? No way... We can do better than that


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