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Old 10-20-2011, 09:57 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default Just wondering about COMC

Could a person with some money just low ball all the big sellers and screw up there sales?????

What if someone sent in alot of cards or bought alot of cards and made all the prices really low?

Just wondering.
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Old 10-20-2011, 10:19 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Could a person with some money just low ball all the big sellers and screw up there sales????? No they would just get their deals denied.

What if someone sent in alot of cards or bought alot of cards and made all the prices really low? Then they would get bought if people felt they were worth the prices.

Just wondering.
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Old 10-20-2011, 10:27 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Could a person with some money just low ball all the big sellers and screw up there sales?????

What if someone sent in alot of cards or bought alot of cards and made all the prices really low?

Just wondering.
How would lowballing screw up someone's sales? All you do is hit reject or counter with what you want, no harm no foul.

If the cards are priced low, they will sell to whatever market value is period. If it is "junk" it will be priced at junk prices. If it is a steal, it will be bought up fast.

I seriously doubt someone would like to do what you are suggesting, but it wouldn't affect a thing on there if they did. Even if it did, I don't believe Warren Buffett is into cards...
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Old 10-20-2011, 11:02 PM   #4 (permalink)
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How would lowballing screw up someone's sales? All you do is hit reject or counter with what you want, no harm no foul.

If the cards are priced low, they will sell to whatever market value is period. If it is "junk" it will be priced at junk prices. If it is a steal, it will be bought up fast.

I seriously doubt someone would like to do what you are suggesting, but it wouldn't affect a thing on there if they did. Even if it did, I don't believe Warren Buffett is into cards...
I will simplify the example:
Just pick a seller "A". He has 10 cards.
Seller "b" tries to buy the same cards as seller "A" by offering/buying other sellers of the same card a lower price then seller "A"s.
Now seller "b" makes his cards cheaper then seller "A".
I am sure it would effect seller "A"'s sales.

Just wondering. Because i notice alot of sellers low balling each other.
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Old 10-20-2011, 11:20 PM   #5 (permalink)
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lol COMC is lowball country! You price at 50% they offer 1/2 of that, you post port sale 99% of offers are wanting if for 10%. That 1% want it for 11%.


But to answer the OP no not at all.
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Old 10-20-2011, 11:24 PM   #6 (permalink)
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I don't think I understand the question or any of the responses.
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Old 10-20-2011, 11:28 PM   #7 (permalink)
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lol COMC is lowball country! You price at 50% they offer 1/2 of that, you post port sale 99% of offers are wanting if for 10%. That 1% want it for 11%.


But to answer the OP no not at all.
i see everyone one adjusting prices .01 lower then the next guy. lol
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Old 10-20-2011, 11:31 PM   #8 (permalink)
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There is a lot of undercutting COMC that is just how the site works. Sometimes seller price cards too low just because another seller has the same card priced too low also. It's all about how that particular card will sell on the site.
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Old 10-20-2011, 11:41 PM   #9 (permalink)
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There is a lot of undercutting COMC that is just how the site works. Sometimes seller price cards too low just because another seller has the same card priced too low also. It's all about how that particular card will sell on the site.
The worst is when you undercut somebody without realizing their card is miscategorized, and then of course your correctly categorized card sells instantly . I'm just glad they allow for flipping or otherwise nothing would stop the undercutting.
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Old 10-20-2011, 11:53 PM   #10 (permalink)
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i see everyone one adjusting prices .01 lower then the next guy. lol
I got on there one day and bought RC's for .10 cents each as I watched an undercutting war go on between some sellers.

I use the sight as a storage place more than anything.
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Old 10-20-2011, 11:53 PM   #11 (permalink)
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How do people keep track of 10000's of cards to keep on under cutting? seems like a hard job.
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Old 10-20-2011, 11:54 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Which seller in particular on COMC do you want to screw up their sales? DDearing?

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Could a person with some money just low ball all the big sellers and screw up there sales?????

What if someone sent in alot of cards or bought alot of cards and made all the prices really low?

Just wondering.
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Old 10-21-2011, 12:23 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Which seller in particular on COMC do you want to screw up their sales? DDearing?
Nah, too much work. I actually bought a lot of cards from him before.

He Seems alittle grumpy for some reason.
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Old 10-21-2011, 02:35 AM   #14 (permalink)
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I have often wondered how much money it would take to pretty much buy up the entire hobby and control the whole thing. I think it could be done for under 2 billion.
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Old 10-21-2011, 03:19 AM   #15 (permalink)
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I have often wondered how much money it would take to pretty much buy up the entire hobby and control the whole thing. I think it could be done for under 2 billion.
That would be a TERRIBLE idea because the card companies are the ultimate profit gainers in this situation, I mean after all every few weeks they add lots of "value" to the market. +Deflation is much more common in players than inflation.

It is a interesting thought though.
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Old 10-21-2011, 03:24 AM   #16 (permalink)
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I have often wondered how much money it would take to pretty much buy up the entire hobby and control the whole thing. I think it could be done for under 2 billion.
Gotta be more than that. At least 10 billion.

One Topps release could easily be $3-$15 million of product. 20 products a year = $60-$300 million

20 years - $6 billion. They've been doing it for 60 years, obviously the costs have increased and decreased over the years.
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Old 10-21-2011, 03:41 AM   #17 (permalink)
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You could be right. I was thinking something like this:

Topps sold for $385 Million in 2007. I would think (monopoly laws aside) you could purchase Topps, Panini (american rights only) & Upper Deck for a billion or so. Now you control the future output.

You couldn't buy up everything since a lot of people don't sell. If you bought everything sold on Ebay in the last year with "Topps" in the title you would spend about 80m - 120m (According to rough TeraPeak numbers). Using those numbers you could probably buy all cards on ebay for 500 million up to a billion.

That would be 2 billion, I would have to think that you could buy the rest of the stuff that hits the market for another 3 billion.

I guess it would be more than I thought, but I don't know about 10 billion.
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Old 10-21-2011, 03:53 AM   #18 (permalink)
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You could be right. I was thinking something like this:

Topps sold for $385 Million in 2007. I would think (monopoly laws aside) you could purchase Topps, Panini (american rights only) & Upper Deck for a billion or so. Now you control the future output.

You couldn't buy up everything since a lot of people don't sell. If you bought everything sold on Ebay in the last year with "Topps" in the title you would spend about 80m - 120m (According to rough TeraPeak numbers). Using those numbers you could probably buy all cards on ebay for 500 million up to a billion.

That would be 2 billion, I would have to think that you could buy the rest of the stuff that hits the market for another 3 billion.

I guess it would be more than I thought, but I don't know about 10 billion.
That's not a bad way to think about it. I guess there's no way we'll really know anyways, unless Warren Buffett decides to make a crappy investment haha.
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Old 10-21-2011, 09:15 PM   #19 (permalink)
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I really think that you misread the tone of his post. It had a humorous tone of people missing a great deal because they want to low ball versus pull the trigger on a great deal.

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He Seems alittle grumpy for some reason.
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Old 10-21-2011, 10:18 PM   #20 (permalink)
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heeeeeeeeeee
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Old 10-22-2011, 06:20 PM   #21 (permalink)
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stop fueling the fire w/h4auto

what up buddy? nice to see you make your semi yearly or yearly appearance and get everyone angry faster than benmoss84!
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Old 10-28-2011, 09:50 AM   #22 (permalink)
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How do people keep track of 10000's of cards to keep on under cutting? seems like a hard job.
For people with small amount of cards on the site, it's easy to do. For people with larger amounts, they use the bulk editor tool. It doesn't garuantee to be the lowest price, but if you drop your prices 10% every week, it won't be long to have the lowest price.

I'm not sure if I like the term undercutting. I view it more as the stock market. Would you buy a stock for $1 more per share than the ask price. Absolutely not! By pricing cards at the lowest level, a seller will most likely sell his card before the other 99 similar cards. This helps create a true market price. Much so better than a Beckett book value price that gets updated very infrequently. I have no problem listing a card at 92% off of beckett book value if that is what the market bears.
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Old 11-01-2011, 01:46 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Could a person with some money just low ball all the big sellers and screw up there sales?????

What if someone sent in alot of cards or bought alot of cards and made all the prices really low?

Just wondering.
What's missing from your equation is the fact that COMC has actual customers who actually purchase items on the site and don't resell them (or don't resell them on COMC). It may not seem like it at times, but it does happen.

Using your scenario, let's say dealer A has 10 mint condition Mickey Mantle rookie cards and dealer B has 10 mint condition Mickey Mantle rookie cards. Dealer A prices his at $80,000 each and dealer B prices his at $79,000 each. So dealer A reprices his at $40,000 each and dealer B reprices his at $20,000 each. So dealer A reprices his at $50 each and dealer B reprices his at $49.99 each.

At some point, dealer C or collector D or some combination of up to 20 customers is going to swoop in and purchase all of the cards. They might reprice them or they might take delivery and keep them.

Suppose you're talking about a cheaper card with a book value of $10. Dealer A has one priced at $4.99. Then dealer B puts 10 of them on the site for 50 cents each. So dealer A purchases all 10 of the cards from dealer B and now he has 11 of them priced at $4.99 each. Dealer B isn't dealer A's competitor. He's his supplier.

Or suppose by "lowball" you mean that dealer A has a card for $4.99 and dealer B puts 10 of them on the site for $4.98. So dealer A advertises that he now accepts 50% offers on all items. His sells for $2.50 while dealer B's are still sitting for $4.98. Who just lowballed whom?

So now dealer B decides to compete with dealer A. He'll price 1 cent below asking price AND accept 50% offers. So dealer A purchases the cards from dealer B for $2.49 each, reprices them for $4.99, and will only accept 20% offers. So when dealer A sells, he's getting $4 to $4.99 for something he paid $2.49 for. Again, dealer B is not dealer A's competitor. He's his supplier.

This sort of stuff happens all the time, everywhere, in every market. You just see it on COMC more frequently because you can instantaneously see all dealer prices for a particular item and there are no costs to buy or sell within the marketplace. An economist would say there are low "barriers to entry" within the marketplace and low "friction", if you want to Google the terms and learn more about the concepts. While you're at it, feel free to bone up on "Supply and Demand".

Ah, but you say, you see examples all the time where there are 20 copies of a card being offered at 90% or more off of guide, seemingly without buyers. This is true. But an economist would tell you that whenever you see a surplus of an item, it is because the marginal cost of the item is higher than the marginal return, or supply is higher than demand. This could be a temporary situation, as with the $50 Mickey Mantle cards, or it could be permanent, as with the 52 Brandon Hynick rookie cards clogging up the site for as little as 11 cents each.

It should be noted that the cost to the buyer is more than 11 cents. If they want to purchase a single one of the Brandon Hynick cards, it will cost something like $3.25 postage, so their final cost will be $3.36. Even if they take advantage of some shipping special, they might still have to pay 26 to 36 cents in marginal cost to get the card, and apparently 52 people around the world aren't willing to do that.

But, let's say Brandon Hynick's mother decides to purchase all 52 of the Brandon Hynick rookie cards on the site. Some are 11 cents. Some are 25 cents. Some are $1. Some are even $1.80. Suppose the whole pile costs her $25 after she pays postage and handling.

Who's going to get upset at that? The dealers who sold the cards? The website who makes money on the postage, packing and cash-out fees? The flipper who was hoping to buy them all for 6 cents each so he could resell them for 9 cents?

It would be theoretically possible for some scrub on the injured reserve list or some other millionaire with too much time on their hands to set about flooding the site with cards at below cost. But why would they want to do it and who would they actually hurt? Where are they going to get cards to sell in the first place? Buy them on eBay? From whom? The same guy they're competing against on COMC?

Why go through all that trouble? Why not just open a restaurant where you sell steak dinners for 50 cents or a gas station where your gasoline is 12 cents a gallon?

Most people who are rich enough to do what you're suggesting didn't earn their money by doing stupid counterproductive things with their time and money. I suppose it would be theoretically possible for the cast of Jersey Shore to do this, but the math involved would probably prevent it.
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Old 11-01-2011, 05:58 PM   #24 (permalink)
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I honestly need a drink after trying to read this. Was this by any chance your Master's Thesis

Seriously, can I buy the Cliff Notes version of this post.

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What's missing from your equation is the fact that COMC has actual customers who actually purchase items on the site and don't resell them (or don't resell them on COMC). It may not seem like it at times, but it does happen.

Using your scenario, let's say dealer A has 10 mint condition Mickey Mantle rookie cards and dealer B has 10 mint condition Mickey Mantle rookie cards. Dealer A prices his at $80,000 each and dealer B prices his at $79,000 each. So dealer A reprices his at $40,000 each and dealer B reprices his at $20,000 each. So dealer A reprices his at $50 each and dealer B reprices his at $49.99 each.

At some point, dealer C or collector D or some combination of up to 20 customers is going to swoop in and purchase all of the cards. They might reprice them or they might take delivery and keep them.

Suppose you're talking about a cheaper card with a book value of $10. Dealer A has one priced at $4.99. Then dealer B puts 10 of them on the site for 50 cents each. So dealer A purchases all 10 of the cards from dealer B and now he has 11 of them priced at $4.99 each. Dealer B isn't dealer A's competitor. He's his supplier.

Or suppose by "lowball" you mean that dealer A has a card for $4.99 and dealer B puts 10 of them on the site for $4.98. So dealer A advertises that he now accepts 50% offers on all items. His sells for $2.50 while dealer B's are still sitting for $4.98. Who just lowballed whom?

So now dealer B decides to compete with dealer A. He'll price 1 cent below asking price AND accept 50% offers. So dealer A purchases the cards from dealer B for $2.49 each, reprices them for $4.99, and will only accept 20% offers. So when dealer A sells, he's getting $4 to $4.99 for something he paid $2.49 for. Again, dealer B is not dealer A's competitor. He's his supplier.

This sort of stuff happens all the time, everywhere, in every market. You just see it on COMC more frequently because you can instantaneously see all dealer prices for a particular item and there are no costs to buy or sell within the marketplace. An economist would say there are low "barriers to entry" within the marketplace and low "friction", if you want to Google the terms and learn more about the concepts. While you're at it, feel free to bone up on "Supply and Demand".

Ah, but you say, you see examples all the time where there are 20 copies of a card being offered at 90% or more off of guide, seemingly without buyers. This is true. But an economist would tell you that whenever you see a surplus of an item, it is because the marginal cost of the item is higher than the marginal return, or supply is higher than demand. This could be a temporary situation, as with the $50 Mickey Mantle cards, or it could be permanent, as with the 52 Brandon Hynick rookie cards clogging up the site for as little as 11 cents each.

It should be noted that the cost to the buyer is more than 11 cents. If they want to purchase a single one of the Brandon Hynick cards, it will cost something like $3.25 postage, so their final cost will be $3.36. Even if they take advantage of some shipping special, they might still have to pay 26 to 36 cents in marginal cost to get the card, and apparently 52 people around the world aren't willing to do that.

But, let's say Brandon Hynick's mother decides to purchase all 52 of the Brandon Hynick rookie cards on the site. Some are 11 cents. Some are 25 cents. Some are $1. Some are even $1.80. Suppose the whole pile costs her $25 after she pays postage and handling.

Who's going to get upset at that? The dealers who sold the cards? The website who makes money on the postage, packing and cash-out fees? The flipper who was hoping to buy them all for 6 cents each so he could resell them for 9 cents?

It would be theoretically possible for some scrub on the injured reserve list or some other millionaire with too much time on their hands to set about flooding the site with cards at below cost. But why would they want to do it and who would they actually hurt? Where are they going to get cards to sell in the first place? Buy them on eBay? From whom? The same guy they're competing against on COMC?

Why go through all that trouble? Why not just open a restaurant where you sell steak dinners for 50 cents or a gas station where your gasoline is 12 cents a gallon?

Most people who are rich enough to do what you're suggesting didn't earn their money by doing stupid counterproductive things with their time and money. I suppose it would be theoretically possible for the cast of Jersey Shore to do this, but the math involved would probably prevent it.
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Old 11-01-2011, 06:11 PM   #25 (permalink)
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I honestly need a drink after trying to read this. Was this by any chance your Master's Thesis

Seriously, can I buy the Cliff Notes version of this post.
I thought it was a pretty well-written and well-thought-out response. Although I'm not sure the original poster's assertion (that some rich guy could buy a whole ton of cards, send them in to COMC, and price them really low) required such an elaborate response.
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