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Old 07-05-2014, 08:08 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default Received empty package!

I met the postman at my mailbox today to pick up two Mike Trout autos I bought. The goes to hand me the package and I see it has been opened from the bottom and is empty!

I refused to take the package and so it will be sent back to the seller.

Did I make the right move?

This has never happened to me and there were $500+ of cards that were supposed to be in that package.

Any knowledgable advice is appreciated.

I opened a case with eBay.
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Old 07-05-2014, 08:14 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Refusing was a bad choice there is a stipulation in the BPP that says that refusal can void the protection. Ebay may or may not follow that rule, but they can and have in the past.

Receiving a empty package should be filed as a SNAD.

Also if there was insurance on the package it would have made going that route easier
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Old 07-05-2014, 08:14 PM   #3 (permalink)
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If you refused it before it was delivered, it was either fraud from a seller or a postal worker.
It's good you were there to refuse the package, it's your best bet at getting your case resolved in your favor.
Edit, this was my opinion and it appears it may be wrong from post above.
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Old 07-05-2014, 08:30 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shrevecity View Post
Refusing was a bad choice there is a stipulation in the BPP that says that refusal can void the protection. Ebay may or may not follow that rule, but they can and have in the past.

Receiving a empty package should be filed as a SNAD.

Also if there was insurance on the package it would have made going that route easier
What is BPP and SNAD?
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Old 07-05-2014, 08:30 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Conditions under which a case can be opened by a buyerAs a buyer, you can open a case under the eBay Buyer Protection Policy when all of the following are true:


You are an eligible buyer (see Buyer eligibility).
You completed a purchase of an eligible item on eBay and started the eBay Buyer Protection process within:

45 days from the date of payment
If the item is an event ticket in the Tickets category, up to 7 days after the date of the event.

You purchased the item on eBay by using the Pay Now option or an eBay invoice and with one of the payment methods listed below:

PayPal
ProPay
Skrill
Paymate
Credit card or debit card
Bill Me Later

You paid for the item in one lump payment. Transactions involving multiple payments, such as a deposit followed by a final payment, are not covered
The item is not excluded from the eBay Buyer Protection Policy (see Exclusions).
There is a good faith dispute between you and the seller regarding the item. A good faith dispute can include cases such as:

You did not receive the item in the estimated delivery time provided on the Order details page (or, if no estimated time was specified, 7 days after payment for items where the origin zip code and destination zip code of the item is within the US, or 10 days after payment for items where either or both the origin zip code and destination ZIP code of the item are not within the US). We may lengthen this period when necessary, for example, based on the type of shipping provided, the buyer's location or due to a natural disaster, national emergency, labor strike or governmental act.
You did not receive the item 30 days after payment.
You received the item after the estimated delivery date where it can be shown that the seller shipped the item either outside of the seller's stated handling time or using a slower method of shipping than what the buyer selected at the time of the transaction.
You received an item that was different from the one described in the listing (for example, you purchased a book, but received a hat).
You received an item that was not as described in the item description.
You received an item that was damaged during shipping.

A good faith dispute does not exist if you improperly claim that the seller has not fulfilled the transaction, if you claim you never received an item when in fact you did, if you refuse to accept shipment of the item (and eBay didn't end the listing), or if you claim the item was not as described but the seller can prove otherwise.
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Old 07-05-2014, 08:31 PM   #6 (permalink)
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BPP is Buyer Protection Plan

SNAD is significantly not as described.
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Old 07-05-2014, 08:35 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Freaking out now......
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Old 07-05-2014, 08:38 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Freaking out now......
There is a good chance you will still get a refund, but its better to accept the item and get the proof it was delivered then go from there.
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Old 07-05-2014, 08:38 PM   #9 (permalink)
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What if the sender sends it back me empty?
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Old 07-05-2014, 08:39 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shrevecity View Post
There is a good chance you will still get a refund, but its better to accept the item and get the proof it was delivered then go from there.
Lesson learned the hard way. Thanks for the response. I've never had any issues like this in 7 years so hopefully eBay is kind to me.
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Old 07-05-2014, 08:43 PM   #11 (permalink)
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I honestly would not clue the seller to anything other than what you have at this point. You definitely do not want him calling Ebay and having a CS agent manually review the case.
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Old 07-05-2014, 09:59 PM   #12 (permalink)
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The seller is offering a full refund, but eBay is stipulating that I send the package back with tracking info and sig delivery, which I have no idea if those things will happen.

The package was supposedly sent with sig delivery, but I was never asked to sign for anything.
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Old 07-05-2014, 10:00 PM   #13 (permalink)
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The seller seems like good guy and is trying to get me my funds back, but I'm not sure how to proceed?

Talk to eBay? Or will that be bad?
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Old 07-05-2014, 10:21 PM   #14 (permalink)
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If you filed a SNAD you are required to return the item. The seller can manually refund without going through Ebay.

You are seeing part of the issue of refusing the package now you have nothing to ship back as you have to have a seperate Sig confirmation number to satisfy that Ebay requirement.

Likely your only option is to call Ebay explain the situation and maybe they will do a courtesy refund.

I don't know how its going to play out the refusal and you filing a SNAD complicates it.

Last edited by shrevecity; 07-05-2014 at 10:25 PM.
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Old 07-07-2014, 06:57 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Well I was able to recover the package from the post office this morning, and send it back to the seller with all the appropriate tracking and sig confirmation.

Feeling better for me and the seller.
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Old 07-07-2014, 07:02 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiteIvy View Post
Well I was able to recover the package from the post office this morning, and send it back to the seller with all the appropriate tracking and sig confirmation.

Feeling better for me and the seller.
I feel like this is digging a deeper hole...
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Old 07-07-2014, 07:11 PM   #17 (permalink)
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I feel like this is digging a deeper hole...
I think recovering the package helps, BUT still not sure how this is going to play out.
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Old 07-08-2014, 02:02 AM   #18 (permalink)
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Opening the case the way I did I think was my biggest mistake.

I'm not sure how I could loose my buyer protection on this one. I've got a lot documentation and the seller agreed to a refund once the empty package is returned.

Seriously, how can I loose here?
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Old 07-08-2014, 09:18 AM   #19 (permalink)
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Opening the case the way I did I think was my biggest mistake.

I'm not sure how I could loose my buyer protection on this one. I've got a lot documentation and the seller agreed to a refund once the empty package is returned.

Seriously, how can I loose here?
You opened the right case the SNAD, had you opened an INR the refusal would have been enough to get the case tossed and now that it shows delievered an INR would have been lost as well

If the seller wanted to refund you he would do it manually without going through Ebay. Any seller who lets Ebay decides the outcome is a fool anyway. Those type claims count hard against a seller, so unless a seller knows he can win they should never allow Ebay to decide on them

Empty package claims are always scary because if you file INR you will lose if the tracking shows delivered, if you file SNAD then you have to return the empty package then the seller can counter argue saying you are the one who removed the item.

The other issue is if there is any insurance on the package it was voided when you returned the item. Maybe that is what the seller is hoping for that he will be able to make an insurance claim and does not realize it is voided.

Honestly sounds like you gave the seller a loan and he is hoping this all plays out in his favor.

You should win now that you have the item back and are returning it, but in this case I would not say that is 100%.

Did you pay with a Credit Card? If you do not get your money back that way you might be able to file with your CC. They are a little more through and almost always give you your money back..

Last edited by shrevecity; 07-08-2014 at 09:21 AM.
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Old 07-08-2014, 09:54 AM   #20 (permalink)
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So did your mail person see that the mailer was opened? If so why was it not in a plastic "oops" bag when you recovered it? Something doesn't smell right.

Also why are you selling this unautographed card as autographed?

Mike Trout Auto 50 Donruss Elite Extra Edition 2009 Die Cut Autograph Gold | eBay

Good luck getting your stuff back.
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Old 07-08-2014, 10:30 AM   #21 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jlzinck View Post
So did your mail person see that the mailer was opened? If so why was it not in a plastic "oops" bag when you recovered it? Something doesn't smell right.

Also why are you selling this unautographed card as autographed?

Mike Trout Auto 50 Donruss Elite Extra Edition 2009 Die Cut Autograph Gold | eBay

Good luck getting your stuff back.
This was before the invisifractor. The invisiauto.
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Old 07-08-2014, 10:38 AM   #22 (permalink)
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I have a buyer claim their item was missing, that was in April, Ebay old her to return the package to me after USPS asked her to keep it until they requested it. My claim was denied bc of it.
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Old 07-08-2014, 11:01 AM   #23 (permalink)
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What does the tracking number on the package state? was it delivered , was it scanned as damaged or refused? What info do you have on that.
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Old 07-08-2014, 11:06 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jlzinck View Post
So did your mail person see that the mailer was opened? If so why was it not in a plastic "oops" bag when you recovered it? Something doesn't smell right.

Also why are you selling this unautographed card as autographed?

Mike Trout Auto 50 Donruss Elite Extra Edition 2009 Die Cut Autograph Gold | eBay

Good luck getting your stuff back.
It was just a brain freeze. I corrected the listing.

I showed the mailman it was empty. He acted like he didn't know what to do. Just wanted me to take it.
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Old 07-08-2014, 11:14 PM   #25 (permalink)
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I showed the mailman it was empty. He acted like he didn't know what to do. Just wanted me to take it.

Was it ripped open? How did you know it was empty? I am assuming it was insured, kinda interesting if that is true that he was so anxious for you to take it.
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