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Old 12-13-2014, 06:46 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default Sick and Tired of getting trimmed vintage cards from COMC

Is there no place in this hobby that has not been covered by scammers? I got my Cyber Monday package this morning of 12 cards and I open with great anticipation of adding two more nice cards to my 1971 Topps Set (Tom Seaver and David Concepcion) and they look undersized and sure enough they trimmed.

Add this to the Black Friday package and Previous Package where I got four trimmed cards (1964 Philadelphia YA Tittle, 1960 Topps Tigers Team, 1972 Topps Clemente IA, 1958 Topps Football plus a couple of others that "could be trimmed). Add to this a 1972 Topps Willie Mays with an undisclosed stain and a 1968 Topps Gale Sayers with an undisclosed crease and I am besides myself.

I have a huge number of cards from COMC this year and I am going to go one by one to see how many other times I have been stung. This may make me sick to my stomach.

These are all headed back to COMC on Monday.

If I was you I would check all of your COMC vintage for trimming.
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Old 12-13-2014, 07:59 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by 37Jetson View Post
Is there no place in this hobby that has not been covered by scammers? I got my Cyber Monday package this morning of 12 cards and I open with great anticipation of adding two more nice cards to my 1971 Topps Set (Tom Seaver and David Concepcion) and they look undersized and sure enough they trimmed.

Add this to the Black Friday package and Previous Package where I got four trimmed cards (1964 Philadelphia YA Tittle, 1960 Topps Tigers Team, 1972 Topps Clemente IA, 1958 Topps Football plus a couple of others that "could be trimmed). Add to this a 1972 Topps Willie Mays with an undisclosed stain and a 1968 Topps Gale Sayers with an undisclosed crease and I am besides myself.

I have a huge number of cards from COMC this year and I am going to go one by one to see how many other times I have been stung. This may make me sick to my stomach.

These are all headed back to COMC on Monday.

If I was you I would check all of your COMC vintage for trimming.
Are they all from one seller?
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Old 12-13-2014, 08:07 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Are they all from one seller?
Dumb me, I don't keep track of sellers. I believe that I have a pretty good idea of the main culprit. I won't make the mistake of not writing down the sellers in the future. I should not have to do so, but too many scammers lurk this hobby.
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Old 12-13-2014, 08:19 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Dumb me, I don't keep track of sellers. I believe that I have a pretty good idea of the main culprit. I won't make the mistake of not writing down the sellers in the future. I should not have to do so, but too many scammers lurk this hobby.
Please give us his name.You should call CS and let them know.
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Old 12-13-2014, 08:33 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Sad to see that you got scammed like that. I wonder how many people out there get the vintage cards and don't even bother to check until they may try to submit them for grading. Sharp corners are tough in many of the vintage cards. I remember trimming or black marker on those 71 cards because they were tough to find in mint condition.
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Old 12-13-2014, 10:34 PM   #6 (permalink)
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I know it is too much to ask the mensa candidates who list the cards to actually describe them accurately ... But should this not be on COMC ? The seller might be a flipper who never saw the card.
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Old 12-13-2014, 11:17 PM   #7 (permalink)
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I know it is too much to ask the mensa candidates who list the cards to actually describe them accurately ... But should this not be on COMC ? The seller might be a flipper who never saw the card.
I agree with you 100%. It is possible that it is a flipper. I just want to be made whole by COMC for the cards and then I can think long and hard if I want to again trust the vintage cards on COMC. I was getting so close to completing some sets and this feels like a kick in the junk. I did not have the stomach today to go back to my album to measure every decent vintage card that I have (many were purchased off COMC).

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Sad to see that you got scammed like that. I wonder how many people out there get the vintage cards and don't even bother to check until they may try to submit them for grading. Sharp corners are tough in many of the vintage cards. I remember trimming or black marker on those 71 cards because they were tough to find in mint condition.
This happened to me a few years ago with a 1967 OPC Tom Seaver purchased on COMC that came back trimmed.
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Old 12-13-2014, 11:20 PM   #8 (permalink)
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I thought if you go into your card inventory you can see who you bought it from, dates, prices, etc???
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Old 12-14-2014, 12:50 AM   #9 (permalink)
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i have no idea how they scan and list cards on comc, and i'm pretty sure they would claim much of their methodology is proprietary, but you would think that all cards, especially vintage, would have a minimum dimension spec that you could automatically check in the software processing of the image. in theory, if you had a really slick set up, you could have software check the coloring of the black areas and detect alteration (or cards with high probability of alteration). that would take a pretty dedicated effort, i imagine, and most users just want their 2014/2015 topps blah blah blah cards listed as soon as possible.

i guess theoretically, if they obtained and processed the images for every 1971 topps card using a consistent set of parameters, you would be able to make meaningful measurements on your screen, once you figured out the proper scale. am i high, or does that make sense?
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Old 12-14-2014, 12:57 AM   #10 (permalink)
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I thought if you go into your card inventory you can see who you bought it from, dates, prices, etc???
The history will give you item number, description, date purchased, purchase price, but it does not provide the seller.
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Old 12-14-2014, 01:09 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by 37Jetson View Post
The history will give you item number, description, date purchased, purchase price, but it does not provide the seller.
I would make a phone call, I guarantee that COMC has the ability to find this info. If it turns out that the same seller is responsible for many of these I hope strong action would be taken. They should also be able to tell if the seller submitted them or flipped them. I am sick of these scum bags doing crap like this, sorry it happened to you.
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Old 12-14-2014, 06:19 PM   #12 (permalink)
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I have mostly sold vintage on COMC and quite a bit of it. This will probably sound pretty strange but even though I have many thousands of cards I actually know very very little about them. I have accumulated them over many years in buying deals for the other stuff that was there (primarily autographs and some memorabilia) and always just put the cards away. I had tried selling some on eBay but it was a pretty negative experience as I don't know an EX card from an EX/MT and wouldn't know a well trimmed card if I saw one. For me COMC has allowed me to sell vintage without giving it away and i assume that they have experts to take care of the grading and authenticity/alterations. I know I sent in things that are slated to be returned and I'm sure some of those were altered. I'd rather get 100 bad cards back than sell 1 and have a COMC buyer not return for more....
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Old 12-14-2014, 06:36 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Yea as much as I buy and sell, I buy on Ebay, card shows,other online sites and people coming into the store, I have had many altered cards thru the years.....Comc has found a few in my submissions and have been pretty good about sending them back....When i buy a large lot , I obviously do not have the time to closely inspect or measure every card, so some will always sneek thru the cracks, but i will/would make good on anything that was sold from my port that was altered
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Old 12-14-2014, 06:41 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Here is my current pile of trimmed cards with the COMC Item Numbers

14570902 - 1960 Topps Tony Kubek
15266056 - 1960 Topps Nellie Fox High Number AS
10337335 - 1962 Topps Roy Face
12225897 - 1965 Topps Joe Cunningham AS
14121975 - 1965 Topps Hoyt Wilhelm
14161819 - 1966 Topps Smoky Burgess
14146660 - 1966 Topps Frank Robinson
14214770 - 1967 Topps Eddie Mathews
13076492 - 1967 Topps Orioles Team
14017275 - 1967 Topps Willie Stargell
11277893 - 1968 Topps Checklist 3rd Series Yaz
11110947 - 1969 Topps Harmon Killebrew
14891554 - 1971 Topps Jim Palmer
16353765 - 1971 Topps Tom Seaver
10628048 - 1971 Topps David Concepcion
16353916 - 1971 Topps Ted Williams
16085889 - 1972 Topps Roberto Clemente IA
14573911 - 1972 Topps Willie McCovery
5277388 - 1972 Topps Hank Aaron
15924780 - 1958 Topps John Carson FB
15925010 - 1964 Philadelphia YA Tittle
15057400 - 1963 Topps Ernie Stautner SP
16088126 - 1960 Topps Tigers Team Card
15919365 - 1968 Topps Gale Sayers (not trimmed, undisclosed crease)
15059605 - 1972 Topps Willie Mays (not trimmed, stain)

Once I get more feedback from COMC I will dig deeper to see what I find as if today's additional finds were not bad enough.
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Old 12-14-2014, 06:45 PM   #15 (permalink)
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COMC would have all that info for sure. But as you've hinted they will take them back if they are altered, which is nice - but still a pain.
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Old 12-14-2014, 08:22 PM   #16 (permalink)
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I actually buy collections all the time and submit them to comc. I have to say COMC is usually very good with catching stuff. I have received cards back where I never even realized there was a trimmed or altered card. Sometimes I get cards back and it takes me forever to figure out what the problem was at all.....
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Old 12-14-2014, 08:52 PM   #17 (permalink)
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I actually buy collections all the time and submit them to comc. I have to say COMC is usually very good with catching stuff. I have received cards back where I never even realized there was a trimmed or altered card. Sometimes I get cards back and it takes me forever to figure out what the problem was at all.....
Many of these appeared to be shaved in some manner. Hard to detect from initial glance, but when you would put it back to back with an unaltered card you would see width difference or a diamond corners because it is very likely difficult to shave/trim in a perfectly square manner. The tell tale sign was on the back of the card where you can see that the edges are not natural and are to new looking. I am sure that I missed some because I did not pull aside the ones that were really close in width. Hopefully COMC will help me with a list of everything that I have purchased from the seller(s) so I can go back and check.
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Old 12-17-2014, 12:55 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Any update for us? Watching closely as I just started buying vintage on comc and have stopped with this finding. I see some responses from comc in other threads but this one is quiet for some reason.
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Old 12-17-2014, 01:00 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Any update for us? Watching closely as I just started buying vintage on comc and have stopped with this finding. I see some responses from comc in other threads but this one is quiet for some reason.
Buy graded only.
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Old 12-17-2014, 07:20 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Ok, let me say something here...in January of 2014, we changed our process of handling vintage cards and only started pulling cards that were obviously altered or "trimmed".

There was a time when we were more aggressive about it, but a combination of limited resources and some sellers claiming they were being "singled out" by us made us re-think and modify our policy on how to handle vintage cards. In reviewing the cases of "altering", it was seen that the incidents of this activity were so sparse that devoting the time to finding a problem that isn't truly there was counterproductive.

Just because a seller has a card in their port does not automatically make them some kind of criminal - if they buy ports from other COMC or they find some vintage at a garage sale and send them in, and some of those cards get by us, we're not going to start accusing people for something they had no hand in doing. And, we're definitely not going to be sharing any lists of sellers to anyone...we're not turning this into any kind of witch hunt.

And, even as the OP says, some of these are hard to detect and he's had a number of these cards in his possession for months, but just alerting this issue to us in the past few days. As always, our return policy is one geared towards the buyer's satisfaction. If you're not satisfied with the cards, contact us and we'll process a refund for you...it's not rocket science here.
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Old 12-17-2014, 09:50 PM   #21 (permalink)
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he's had a number of these cards in his possession for months, but just alerting this issue to us in the past few days.
My 11/7 shipment had a really badly trimmed YA Tittle Card. I was going to chalk it up to bad luck until both my 11/27 and 12/1 shipments contained multiple trimmed cards. I spent several hours last Sunday trying to track back the more expensive cards that I had purchased from COMC this year. The list of my problem cards grew quite considerably and there were some cards that I purchased several months ago.

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And, we're definitely not going to be sharing any lists of sellers to anyone...we're not turning this into any kind of witch hunt.
Ok, but please be advised that I will be returning every single trimmed card that I have purchased from COMC for a full refund.

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And, even as the OP says, some of these are hard to detect
Many of them were difficult to find. They look very good from the front and do not always stand out when placed over an untrimmed card. When you square up the card in all directions they become quite apparent. Once you discover a few it gets easier to see the evidence of the trimming/shaving on the back of the card.

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it's not rocket science here.
What did I do to deserve this???

Next time you choose to be snarky and unprofessional I suggest that you not do it to one of COMC's original sellers who tirelessly worked to do things the right way as a buyer and seller for over six years and tens of thousands of cards while promoting your site to anybody who would listen and asking nothing in return.

I would ask that you turn over my complaint directly to Tim Getsch because I do not ever want to deal with you again.
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Old 12-17-2014, 10:06 PM   #22 (permalink)
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I just came back from Tim's office...I was only trying to illustrate that returning cards to COMC is easy to do. It was not meant to be offensive, and I apologize.
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Old 12-17-2014, 10:29 PM   #23 (permalink)
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...it's not rocket science here.
Neither is listing correct descriptions of cards, or ANY description on non-sport's cards but you guys sure have a hard time doing it
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Old 12-17-2014, 10:36 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Neither is listing correct descriptions of cards, or ANY description on non-sport's cards but you guys sure have a hard time doing it
ANY non-sport card? There's over 62,000 of them...I'd like to think we got at least one description correct - that whole "benefit of the doubt" thing, right?
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Old 12-17-2014, 10:53 PM   #25 (permalink)
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ANY non-sport card? There's over 62,000 of them...I'd like to think we got at least one description correct - that whole "benefit of the doubt" thing, right?
Have a look at this, Autographed Non-Sports Cards - COMC Online Marketplace

obviously there is "at least one" correct (49/100 of this page has "missing"), but if you think the state of non-sport is even close to acceptable then you need to question what you guys are doing over there (as it seems, many others are).....
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