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Old 12-06-2012, 11:56 PM   #26 (permalink)
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Son of a gun, I got a PSA 10 Mojo Drew,(Stenerud auto topper) the Mojo Drew sounds good huh? One just sold for $36!! And one is sitting on ebay $89 OBO and no one even wants to make an offer...Oh and I also got a 2011 Topps Legends Jake Locker jersey auto BGS 9(Roger Wehrli auto topper), a 9.5 sold for $76, what's my 9 worth. Should I send both back to Leaf?......Of course I won't, that's not in my DNA.
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Old 12-07-2012, 12:18 AM   #27 (permalink)
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Your the best Brian.... love you so much
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Old 12-07-2012, 12:52 AM   #28 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by kevinandji View Post
Thanks for replies and keeping it positive. Even away from being card related his customer service is a perfect 10. When I say he called within 5-10 minutes of hitting send I just sat there with jaw on floor. That is class and whether hobby related or any other company that kind of customer service is not only rare but non existent.

Brian Gray said the goal was to have the card be at least 40% of what eBay's price point is. So at $200 you should expect an $80 slab plus the sketch card. That is his aim and he does his best to make it happen. Not too shabby since I know out of 11 boxes of 2011 Rookie Retro that is pretty much what 9 of the 11 boxes had. I broke even on a 9.5 Olajuwon rookie and a PSA 10 Tony Gwynn. I had a feeling this 9.5 Newton base had to be a mistake. Either way I am keeping the 9.5 Newton, sending in the Deacon, and getting new box. Of course I will let my fellow members know what it brings.

And no Backer....I never send food back, I don't like spit in my potatoes...hahaha. Please, please, please take Rusty off as your Avatar, it creeps me out big time.

Agreed. Unlike most of the other card companies, I've always had a positive experience when dealing with Leaf. Say what you will about their products (I'm sure the same could be said about every other company); their customer service is top-notch.
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Old 12-07-2012, 12:57 AM   #29 (permalink)
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Does this mean I get new boxes for the $23 2009 sp authentic Mike wallace and the $34 2011 Finest demarco murray autos I pulled?

Last edited by hermanotarjeta; 12-07-2012 at 01:02 AM.
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Old 12-07-2012, 01:06 AM   #30 (permalink)
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Does this mean I get new boxes for the $23 2009 sp authentic Mike wallace and the $34 2011 Finest demarco murray autos I pulled?
I better not say what I really want to...
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Old 12-07-2012, 01:14 AM   #31 (permalink)
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I better not say what I really want to...
I know what you are thinking.

Granted, those pulls weren't as bad as a chrome base newton, but not that much better, and certainly not the 40% target that Mr. Gray is claiming each box is to be worth.
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Old 12-07-2012, 01:14 AM   #32 (permalink)
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I better not say what I really want to...
Say it
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Old 12-07-2012, 02:38 AM   #33 (permalink)
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Does this mean I get new boxes for the $23 2009 sp authentic Mike wallace and the $34 2011 Finest demarco murray autos I pulled?
Or the $19 Warren Moon UD Black auto I pulled?

To the OP, I'm glad Brian Gray is making nice with you and all, but when you take a gamble on a product like this, you should be aware that you might take it in the shorts. And if his goal was truly placing an $80 slab in every pack, these cards should NEVER have been packed out in the first place, so I'm calling bull$hit on that.

Bottom line is you win some and you lose some, but don't go crying when you lose because you'll never do it when you win. If you pull a BGS 9.5 Tom Brady Contenders RC in the new box, are you going to send it back to him and say you got too much value??? Didn't think so...
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Old 12-07-2012, 03:46 AM   #34 (permalink)
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I only had great experiences with Leaf, to give you an example.

A mystery redemption got me a 2007 Exquisite Football Box, I had to pay close to $110 for custom fees and with redemptions or replacements that usually is and should not be the case.

Leaf forwarded me the money I would have to pay the postal service which was pretty amazing .

Kuddo's to Leaf .
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Old 12-07-2012, 12:14 PM   #35 (permalink)
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Or the $19 Warren Moon UD Black auto I pulled?

To the OP, I'm glad Brian Gray is making nice with you and all, but when you take a gamble on a product like this, you should be aware that you might take it in the shorts. And if his goal was truly placing an $80 slab in every pack, these cards should NEVER have been packed out in the first place, so I'm calling bull$hit on that.

Bottom line is you win some and you lose some, but don't go crying when you lose because you'll never do it when you win. If you pull a BGS 9.5 Tom Brady Contenders RC in the new box, are you going to send it back to him and say you got too much value??? Didn't think so...
Yeah your absolutely right...however, if a base 9.5 Newton is truly packed out and known on a checklist I would not take that gamble. I get a personal call from Mr Gray and he says this card should have never been packed out should I call him a liar? And then while I have him on the phone give him a big FU to everyone on here who cannot stand Leaf or him? If you think a 5-10% ROI on a repacked product is ok and just "taking in the shorts" then that's what your willing to take without any gripe. My letter to him was very professional, polite, and not whiny. I simply asked if a 9.5 Newton with recent eBay sale of $10 and some change was supposed to be in product. My phone rings 5 minutes later with an apology, an explanation, and an offer to make right but somehow there are those who find fault with either myself or Leaf and Brian Gray? I'm pretty sure if I start a thread about loving Santa, the laughter of children and World Peace somebody will throw me and my views under the bus. I shared my hit, or lack thereof, I shared my story of Brian Gray, and it is what it is.

On a related note I finished opening my case of 2011 Topps Chrome rack packs. The haul was no orange refractors of anyone top tier, one base Newton, a Gold refractor /50 of Rahim Moore and various base RCs, etc. No autos, nothing special. I expect that and am fine with that. Same with my case of 2012 Chrome football where most autos were from Criner, Allen, Poe, etc...I did hit a gold auto of Russell Wilson though so not too shabby...and to all a Merry Xmas, Happy Holidays, Happy Kwanza, Happy Hannukah, and again, thanks Brian Gray hahaha!
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Old 12-07-2012, 12:26 PM   #36 (permalink)
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I can't believe you guys are attacking the OP for checking with the company to see if such a low value card in this product was a mistake.
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Old 12-07-2012, 12:39 PM   #37 (permalink)
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I can't believe you guys are attacking the OP for checking with the company to see if such a low value card in this product was a mistake.
That's the way 85% of these people on here are they all try to play this HOLIER THAN THOU attitude, like their sh*t don't stink! Or maybe like they have never felt taken by the balls and lead around to sniff others sh*t! C'mon get real guys if you would have gotten a B.S card in a $200 product you would have done the same!
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Old 12-07-2012, 01:07 PM   #38 (permalink)
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I think it's great the Leaf is helping out a customer. However... it IS a concern that Leaf put that particular card (and others mentioned above) IN the product if their goal was to at least have a target value of X% of the pack price.

How does a company learn what is good or bad? Numerous Awards for Great products, but also numerous complaints for a bad one. All of you that feel slighted for your Wallace, or Warren Moon, should absolutely contact Leaf and see what they can do for you. Maybe this will drive Leaf to up their buyback price limits and correct a flaw for next year's product? Or not even waiting until next year, maybe help improve their Best Of Leaf Golf (joking) that they release in 2 months.

Companies will NEVER improve unless we, the consumers, force them to improve. Again, my hat is off to Brian. But if they are allowing returns... I would use that to the max. Good luck all, I won't be breaking any of this. My 2 cents.
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Old 12-07-2012, 01:54 PM   #39 (permalink)
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That's the way 85% of these people on here are they all try to play this HOLIER THAN THOU attitude, like their sh*t don't stink! Or maybe like they have never felt taken by the balls and lead around to sniff others sh*t! C'mon get real guys if you would have gotten a B.S card in a $200 product you would have done the same!
Many of us did get the same type of card, and no, we didn't do the same.

We chose to stop purchasing the product, and will have second and third thoughts about purchasing that type of product in the future.

I'm not sure if Mr. Gray would be so pleasant if he was inundated with 100's of calls from customers who pulled $30 cards out of one of those packs, and demanded another free pack...

I know this product breakdown well enough.

you will usually get per case:

1 card valued at around $50 or less at the time Mr. Gray purchased the card, usually balanced out with an auto or sketch of more value

1 card valued at around $80-$125 at the time Mr. Gray purchased the card, with a scrub auto

1 card valued at $125 plus at the time Mr. Gray purchased the card, with a scrub auto

I suppose it isn't Mr. Gray's fault if, for example, a certain player's card cost him $45 to buy at the time it was purchased for this product and for packing, and the player gets injured, or significantly declines in performance and popularity.

I wouldn't be surprised if he paid near $45 for the gem mint chrome newton last year, for insertion into the product. It's now a $10 card. I doubt the card was accidentally placed in the product. If Newton's panthers were 11-1 right now and he was on course for 5000 yards passing, 40 td's and was becoming the face of the sport, the OP wouldn't be complaining cause the card would be a $50+ card.

It was a kind gesture of Mr. Gray, hopefully he understands the bad precedent he is creating for himself. If that's a sacrifice he is willing to make, then good for him.

Last edited by hermanotarjeta; 12-07-2012 at 02:31 PM.
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Old 12-07-2012, 05:36 PM   #40 (permalink)
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WOW! I must say that I am very impressed! I like some of Leaf's designs but the no logo thing kinda kills it for me. However with a stand up guy like that running the company I might have to reconsider. Now just imagine if a company like this could get a license and would continue to do business this way.............now that my friend would be super sweet!
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Old 12-07-2012, 05:49 PM   #41 (permalink)
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awesome to hear
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Old 12-07-2012, 07:29 PM   #42 (permalink)
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I'm pretty sure if I start a thread about loving Santa, the laughter of children and World Peace somebody will throw me and my views under the bus. I shared my hit, or lack thereof, I shared my story of Brian Gray, and it is what it is.
WHO BELIEVES IN SANTA! ITS AN ANAGRAM FOR SATAN

Anyway, seriously, what gives? Kev complains, Gray makes right. It's a hollywood ending!
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Old 12-08-2012, 04:00 PM   #43 (permalink)
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Yeah your absolutely right...however, if a base 9.5 Newton is truly packed out and known on a checklist I would not take that gamble. I get a personal call from Mr Gray and he says this card should have never been packed out should I call him a liar? And then while I have him on the phone give him a big FU to everyone on here who cannot stand Leaf or him? If you think a 5-10% ROI on a repacked product is ok and just "taking in the shorts" then that's what your willing to take without any gripe. My letter to him was very professional, polite, and not whiny. I simply asked if a 9.5 Newton with recent eBay sale of $10 and some change was supposed to be in product. My phone rings 5 minutes later with an apology, an explanation, and an offer to make right but somehow there are those who find fault with either myself or Leaf and Brian Gray? I'm pretty sure if I start a thread about loving Santa, the laughter of children and World Peace somebody will throw me and my views under the bus. I shared my hit, or lack thereof, I shared my story of Brian Gray, and it is what it is.

On a related note I finished opening my case of 2011 Topps Chrome rack packs. The haul was no orange refractors of anyone top tier, one base Newton, a Gold refractor /50 of Rahim Moore and various base RCs, etc. No autos, nothing special. I expect that and am fine with that. Same with my case of 2012 Chrome football where most autos were from Criner, Allen, Poe, etc...I did hit a gold auto of Russell Wilson though so not too shabby...and to all a Merry Xmas, Happy Holidays, Happy Kwanza, Happy Hannukah, and again, thanks Brian Gray hahaha!
I understand where you're coming from, I really do. I don't think 5-10% return on ANY product is acceptable, regardless of whether it's new, repackaged, or whatever. The thing is, when a new product is produced, companies have an average price per hit that they factor in. Over the print run of the product, their hits per box cost a certain amount to produce, and they don't account for secondary market value. To them, a hit is a hit, regardless of what we can sell it for on eBay.

In repackaged products, however, the company (in this case, Leaf) has total control of what they purchase for inclusion in their boxes. Anyone who believes Brian Gray did not intend to insert this Newton (or the Moon or the Wallace or any other low value card) is a moron. Why did he purchase these cards if he didn't intend to repackage them and make money??? I'm not calling him a thief or a criminal or even accusing him of wrongdoing. I'm saying it's disingenuous to say that he didn't intend to balance his costs in acquiring some of the big guns in the product by acquiring and including some chump cards, too.

Bottom line is they included it and hoped they wouldn't get called out on it by an unhappy customer. When you called them out on it, Gray quickly covered his @$$ and "made it right," thereby both playing the percentages AND looking good when it didn't work out. It's a no-lose situation for him, and make no mistake about it, he knew exactly what he was doing.

You were exercising your right to ask him about it and you're exercising your right to take what they offer as compensation. But again, this product is a gamble, and you take the bad with the good if you choose to take that gamble. Nobody who's pulling a big card in this product is calling them to tell them they can't accept that much value, so it's hypocritical to EXPECT compensation when you "take it in the shorts." I realize you didn't expect compensation when you complained. However, if anybody believes that a call from Brian Gray saying "oh, that's where that Newton went" and giving you a replacement box was anything but CYA, they're idiots.
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Old 12-09-2012, 12:15 AM   #44 (permalink)
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I understand where you're coming from, I really do. I don't think 5-10% return on ANY product is acceptable, regardless of whether it's new, repackaged, or whatever. The thing is, when a new product is produced, companies have an average price per hit that they factor in. Over the print run of the product, their hits per box cost a certain amount to produce, and they don't account for secondary market value. To them, a hit is a hit, regardless of what we can sell it for on eBay.

In repackaged products, however, the company (in this case, Leaf) has total control of what they purchase for inclusion in their boxes. [SIZE="2"]Anyone who believes Brian Gray did not intend to insert this Newton (or the Moon or the Wallace or any other low value card) is a moron. Why did he purchase these cards if he didn't intend to repackage them and make money???SIZE] I'm not calling him a thief or a criminal or even accusing him of wrongdoing. I'm saying it's disingenuous to say that he didn't intend to balance his costs in acquiring some of the big guns in the product by acquiring and including some chump cards, too.

Bottom line is they included it and hoped they wouldn't get called out on it by an unhappy customer. When you called them out on it, Gray quickly covered his @$$ and "made it right," thereby both playing the percentages AND looking good when it didn't work out. It's a no-lose situation for him, and make no mistake about it, he knew exactly what he was doing.

You were exercising your right to ask him about it and you're exercising your right to take what they offer as compensation. But again, this product is a gamble, and you take the bad with the good if you choose to take that gamble. Nobody who's pulling a big card in this product is calling them to tell them they can't accept that much value, so it's hypocritical to EXPECT compensation when you "take it in the shorts." I realize you didn't expect compensation when you complained. However, if anybody believes that a call from Brian Gray saying "oh, that's where that Newton went" and giving you a replacement box was anything but CYA, they're idiots.


I agree 100%. People seem to really dislike hearing the truth on this site. The truth is reality, why would anyone wanna hear anything else?
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Old 12-11-2012, 09:52 PM   #45 (permalink)
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Wait, this is about a base card? I received a base manning topps BGS 9.5 and it sold for $26. What is my entitlement?
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Old 12-11-2012, 10:38 PM   #46 (permalink)
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I got pooped on by a BGS 9.5 Favre 91 Stadium Club. Monster hit I guess compared to some.....
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Old 12-12-2012, 01:13 AM   #47 (permalink)
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Your sketch cards are amazing! I love the detail you put into the helmets. They seem to sell very well too.
Thanks, I put a ton of time into the helmets and it seems to have paid off. Yeah, it also helps that some of the bigger names that I did are out there (their auto might have bumped the price up)
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Old 12-12-2012, 02:27 AM   #48 (permalink)
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so...kev, did you get your box yet?
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Old 12-12-2012, 03:11 PM   #49 (permalink)
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so...kev, did you get your box yet?
Not yet...only been a few days but I will be sure to let everyone know what the box contains when it does arrive...
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Old 12-12-2012, 03:15 PM   #50 (permalink)
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Honestly it took them almost 2 months to send me a check...
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