Chances this is a scam

[ssbledsoe]

So I bid quite a bit on a rare RC for my Drew Bledsoe PC. I get outbid, and suffice it to say I bid insanely high. Miraculously, seller contacts me to say he "might be getting another one and will only charge me my highest bid + $6 S/H."
I and "the winning bidder" are the only ones "interested" at more than twice anyone else's bids. The seller has recently joined the boards (more new than me...), but this smells fishier than a French bordello bidet.
Thoughts?

[SCtxholdem]

Tell him no thanks ...... you have a lead on another one. There are more out there just wait and you will find one reasonable priced.

[FreeFlow]

Don't buy it. Hopefully you can find another form a different seller. Sounds way to fishy to me.

[pkremer]

Extremely fishy. Turn him down.

He shilled it over your head and is trying to sell you his ONLY card for your max bid. That's so obvious it makes me wonder how smart this guy is. Does he honestly think he's going to get anyone to buy that?

PS - I might be getting in another 1/1 just like the one you lost. You want to buy it for your max bid?

[ssbledsoe]

Its unanimous and everyone agrees with me.
I've had a few people do this before and it's ridiculously obvious, the guy shilled me all to hell and then decided to give me a deal.
The stupid thing is, if he would have put it up BIN/OBO, and I would have given him plenty for it. Now, he's tried to rip me off and now he's lost a customer. Greed will get you in the end...

[Ranger565]

Do you know how to tell if the item has been shilled? I will be more then happy to show you how you can determine this. Infact I would be willing to help anyone. I did post a shill tactic on this forum a while back.

[ssbledsoe]

Originally Posted by Ranger565

Do you know how to tell if the item has been shilled? I will be more then happy to show you how you can determine this. Infact I would be willing to help anyone. I did post a shill tactic on this forum a while back.

I'm familiar with how to check for shilling. Winner had 90 bids on 81 items and and only 1% activity. Even so, it clearly could be a situation where he has 2 ID's he buys from and is very selective in what he shills...

[golferphil]

I love it when I get the "second chance" offers from someone. Usually about an hour after the shilled auction ends...

[achilles01987]

Turn him down! It'll show up again on the bay in a few days/weeks.

[cruiserdaddy7]

So the winner had 1% bid activity and now you guys say it is shilled? So if someone has 90% bid activity they shill, and if someone has 1% they selectively shill? What is the card? Im curious how "rare" it is and unlike the others in this thread I prefer not to make assumptions based on the lack of information you have given.

[DaveTaplin]

If I bid one time with Seller A and 99 times with Seller B will I show 1% bid activity with Seller A or 50%?

[pkremer]

Originally Posted by cruiserdaddy7

So the winner had 1% bid activity and now you guys say it is shilled? So if someone has 90% bid activity they shill, and if someone has 1% they selectively shill? What is the card? Im curious how "rare" it is and unlike the others in this thread I prefer not to make assumptions based on the lack of information you have given.

I think there's plenty of information here:

1) After getting outbid on what he felt was a very high bid (lets give him credit for knowing what is a normal price), the seller contacts him and tries to sell him the same card, which he magically now seems to have 2 of, for his highest bid. That's not how it works. If he has another one, he should list it in a separate auction or put it up BIN. The very fact that he's pulling this puts him in shady territory to begin with.

2) As someone who has experienced getting shilled, sometimes the shiller accidentally outbids you. If the auction ends, the idiot has essentially bought the card from himself, and has to pay all the fees for the sale. So he tries to get the person he shilled to pay his highest bid price. I refuse.

C'mon. Read the story again. It screams a shill bid. Even if the seller's story is true, he's trying to pull a fast one by using eBay to discover the max bid, and then trying to sell direct and not listing the card. Shady seller.

PS - To the OP, this is why I use sniping software on all my bids. It's hard to shill when my final bid comes with 4 seconds left. Also, I've found I'm getting cards for less than I used to because a lot of people don't understand proxy bidding. I'd recommend sniping rather than bidding a max and leaving plenty of time for shill action.

[SCtxholdem]

If he really has another coming in, and he offered it to you as a second chance, wouldn't its price be your highest bid before the winning bid placed a bid? Forgive me for the stupid question but I am still trying to figure all this ebay stuff out

[pkremer]

Originally Posted by SCtxholdem

If he really has another coming in, and he offered it to you as a second chance, wouldn't its price be your highest bid before the winning bid placed a bid? Forgive me for the stupid question but I am still trying to figure all this ebay stuff out

No. A second chance is when the highest bidder doesn't pay, and so he offers you the ORIGINAL item for your highest bid. However, you can choose to refuse to purchase it, especially if you think the highest bid was a shill bid.

If he has a SECOND item "coming in," it should be listed separately as a new auction, not sold to the second highest bidder with no actual transaction on eBay.

[37Jetson]

This wreaketh of trouble so I would say that you should refuse at any price. You should ask him to send you pictures of both of the cards together or else you will unleash the Blowout Forum Pit Bulls.

Originally Posted by ssbledsoe

So I bid quite a bit on a rare RC for my Drew Bledsoe PC. I get outbid, and suffice it to say I bid insanely high. Miraculously, seller contacts me to say he "might be getting another one and will only charge me my highest bid + $6 S/H."
I and "the winning bidder" are the only ones "interested" at more than twice anyone else's bids. The seller has recently joined the boards (more new than me...), but this smells fishier than a French bordello bidet.
Thoughts?

[bigzig]

A second chance offer can be used if the seller has multiples of the same item. There is no requirement that a seperate listing has to take place.

Just speaking in general. Not referring my opinion on this seller at all.

[SacGWYNN19]

where is the link.....?

Nevermind - found it.

The buyer placed their bid early in the action, placed one bid and it was obvioulsy very large. The seller had several other rare bledsoes he was selling at the same time. Would not shock me at all if he has multiple cards of the one in question. The fact that shill is even mentioned in this thread is embarrassing. Seriously?

I would say the person how won the card wanted pretty bad.

[cruiserdaddy7]

Originally Posted by pkremer

No. A second chance is when the highest bidder doesn't pay, and so he offers you the ORIGINAL item for your highest bid. However, you can choose to refuse to purchase it, especially if you think the highest bid was a shill bid.

If he has a SECOND item "coming in," it should be listed separately as a new auction, not sold to the second highest bidder with no actual transaction on eBay.

WRONG!!!!!!!!!!!!! Second chance offers are also available if you have multiple items for sale. Hence why you can send out MULTIPLE SECOND CHANCE OFFERS WITH 1 CLICK IF YOU CLICK YOU HAVE THAT NUMBER AVAILABLE. This is what the forum needs, a guy who is clueless about how to use eBay and that the features are for telling others what shill bidding is. Learn your facts, then come here to discuss.

[pkremer]

Originally Posted by cruiserdaddy7

WRONG!!!!!!!!!!!!! Second chance offers are also available if you have multiple items for sale. Hence why you can send out MULTIPLE SECOND CHANCE OFFERS WITH 1 CLICK IF YOU CLICK YOU HAVE THAT NUMBER AVAILABLE. This is what the forum needs, a guy who is clueless about how to use eBay and that the features are for telling others what shill bidding is. Learn your facts, then come here to discuss.

1) However, wouldn't the auction in question had to have that number in the original listing? Can you send out multiple second chance offers when you only listed 1 card originally? Not according to what is on eBay's site. So the 'ability' to do that wouldn't apply in this particular case. There was only 1 listed available, there can only be 1 second chance offer.

2) This "offer" wasn't a second chance offer, it seems it was a private communication. Besides, if you send a second chance offer, it completes the transaction with the 2nd bidder, not the first. So if the first person pays, the second chance offer would not be available, would it?

3) The guy didn't have 2 when he listed it. He said he "might be getting another one" and he would offer it to him for his max bid. How much do you want to bet that if the OP had agreed to this deal, that would have gone from "might" to "definitely?" Why would he have said "might" be getting another one in if he already had it? That would make no sense, which closes the case on the fact there was only 1 in the original listing.

4) Another item, by eBay rules, would have had to be listed again, being the original item had already closed. For that reason alone, I'd make the seller relist it so that I had a chance to save money on it, being there was only 1 person that even came close to outbidding me. It would make no sense to immediately agree to hand over my max bid, especially when the whole thing reeks.

5) There are a lot of dishonest people on eBay. Shrewd people know when something smells funny. This seller was trying to make an off eBay sale and it seemed fishy. The OP gave the facts according to his view, and based on his info, it smells. What should we have done? Told him to pay up?

6) You should be nicer to people. Especially when you're not always right. My application of how eBay works in this instance is correct. How can you send multiple second chance offers when you only list 1? If he had listed 2, you would be correct. But he didn't, so you're not.

[cruiserdaddy7]

Are you serious? You are WRONG in everything you wrote above. My lord, you are so very wrong. Maybe hop into eBay live chat and educate yourself...
1.) YES, you can second as many second chance offers as there are unique bidders. If 8 different people bid, you can see what they bid and send offers. If accepted, those offers are assigned new item numbers.
2.) Second chance offers are available whether the auction winner pays or not.
3.) Maybe the guy knew where he could get one locally, and wanted the funds in hand before he bought the item. Think pre-sell.
4.) Another item, if the same, again falls under the second chance offer.
5.) You should not accuse people without hard facts. Too many sellers get accused of shills and then when proven to be idiots the threads get deleted.
6.) Be nicer when I am correct and people on here toss rocks at others when it is them without a clue how things work? When you list an auction for 2, the auction is for 2. You cannot list an auction for 2, but sell 1 and offer the other via second chance. I am shocked people are this dense. You my friend are so VERY WRONG.
Per eBay rules, say for example I have 8 Bryce Harper bowman rookies. The winning bidders wins and pays. I still can send 7 more second chance offers if there were 7 unique bidders. Ebay assigns new transaction numbers, eBay takes their fees and its done.

[pkremer]

Originally Posted by cruiserdaddy7

Are you serious? You are WRONG in everything you wrote above. My lord, you are so very wrong. Maybe hop into eBay live chat and educate yourself...
1.) YES, you can second as many second chance offers as there are unique bidders. If 8 different people bid, you can see what they bid and send offers. If accepted, those offers are assigned new item number
2.) Second chance offers are available whether the auction winner pays or not.
3.) Maybe the guy knew where he could get one locally, and wanted the funds in hand before he bought the item. Think pre-sell.
4.) Another item, if the same, again falls under the second chance offer.
5.) You should not accuse people without hard facts. Too many sellers get accused of shills and then when proven to be idiots the threads get deleted.
6.) Be nicer when I am correct and people on here toss rocks at others when it is them without a clue how things work? When you list an auction for 2, the auction is for 2. You cannot list an auction for 2, but sell 1 and offer the other via second chance. I am shocked people are this dense. You my friend are so VERY WRONG.
Per eBay rules, say for example I have 8 Bryce Harper bowman rookies. The winning bidders wins and pays. I still can send 7 more second chance offers if there were 7 unique bidders. Ebay assigns new transaction numbers, eBay takes their fees and its done.

Then why the heck would you only list 1 if you had 8 to sell? It's really easy to type in that you have 8, and most sellers with multiples do. Also, since your second chance offers could only be for their max bid, why would you want to? Ebay's help files are not clear on this matter at all. I've never done it, so I'll admit that I could be wrong in this case, but it doesn't make sense why you would list 1 item, sell it, then send 8 second chance offers to people who would progressively pay less than the original bidder.

It sounds fishy. That's all. You can argue all you want about whether or not a person doesn't have all the facts, but the fact is that it sounds fishy. The OP was clearly not comfortable. Don't do things you don't feel comfortable with. I can't tell you how many sellers have contacted me telling me they'll cancel the listing right now if I agree to buy it off eBay. There's a lot of honest people on eBay. There's also a crapload of scammers and dishonest people. If something smells, I back out. The onus is on the seller in this case to prove he wasn't being shady, not on me to prove he is. You don't want to look shady? Don't BE shady. Be clear about your intent. You say a lot of sellers get unfairly accused of shilling. You know why? Because there are so darn many shillers on that site most of us have taken up sniping. I got shilled several times in such obvious ways (hundreds of bids, 100% bidding with the same seller) that I've taken up sniping as a way of life.

You also clearly misunderstood. If I have 8 cards, I can put that I have 8 in the quantity box but sell them by the 1 each. A LOT of sellers do this.

eBay - New & used electronics, cars, apparel, collectibles, sporting goods & more at low prices

You choose how many you want, but they sell by the EACH. So you CAN list 2 available, sell 1, and second chance the other, couldn't you? This is different than making a 1 quantity auction of 8 cards.

And yes, I really don't ever see a point to be rude. Tell me I'm wrong and politely explain why. Point me in the right direction. Being a jerk to someone when they've done nothing to you makes YOU the jerk. And I KNOW I'm right about that.

PS - If you wish to continue this discussion, I'm available in PM. We don't need to air out a personal disagreement publicly.

[cruiserdaddy7]

Originally Posted by pkremer

Then why the heck would you only list 1 if you had 8 to sell? It's really easy to type in that you have 8, and most sellers with multiples do. Also, since your second chance offers could only be for their max bid, why would you want to? Ebay's help files are not clear on this matter at all. I've never done it, so I'll admit that I could be wrong in this case, but it doesn't make sense why you would list 1 item, sell it, then send 8 second chance offers to people who would progressively pay less than the original bidder.

It sounds fishy. That's all. You can argue all you want about whether or not a person doesn't have all the facts, but the fact is that it sounds fishy. The OP was clearly not comfortable. Don't do things you don't feel comfortable with. I can't tell you how many sellers have contacted me telling me they'll cancel the listing right now if I agree to buy it off eBay. There's a lot of honest people on eBay. There's also a crapload of scammers and dishonest people. If something smells, I back out. The onus is on the seller in this case to prove he wasn't being shady, not on me to prove he is. You don't want to look shady? Don't BE shady. Be clear about your intent. You say a lot of sellers get unfairly accused of shilling. You know why? Because there are so darn many shillers on that site most of us have taken up sniping. I got shilled several times in such obvious ways (hundreds of bids, 100% bidding with the same seller) that I've taken up sniping as a way of life.

You also clearly misunderstood. If I have 8 cards, I can put that I have 8 in the quantity box but sell them by the 1 each. A LOT of sellers do this.

eBay - New & used electronics, cars, apparel, collectibles, sporting goods & more at low prices

You choose how many you want, but they sell by the EACH. So you CAN list 2 available, sell 1, and second chance the other, couldn't you? This is different than making a 1 quantity auction of 8 cards.

And yes, I really don't ever see a point to be rude. Tell me I'm wrong and politely explain why. Point me in the right direction. Being a jerk to someone when they've done nothing to you makes YOU the jerk. And I KNOW I'm right about that.

Ill accept that. What does it make you when you post things that are not true and then tell someone they are wrong again when in fact they are right? Also, what does it make you when you accuse a seller of something when you dont even have your own comprehension of the rules or the way things work together?
Its not even a personal issue with you. There are SO MANY people on here quick to post names and ids claiming them of shill bidding or other wrongdoings and it turns out the comments are not factual. Just happened in the basketball forum, and once the idiots there had the egg on their face they cry to mods to have the post deleted. All the while, they have lost business for the seller they posted. I just dont understand it. Ill accept being a prick or whatever you want to call me, but the LAST thing you will find me on here doing is spreading lies about sellers.

[cruiserdaddy7]

Oh, and you are referring to dutch auctions. A very different animal than what we were talking about.

[pkremer]

Originally Posted by cruiserdaddy7

Ill accept that. What does it make you when you post things that are not true and then tell someone they are wrong again when in fact they are right? Also, what does it make you when you accuse a seller of something when you dont even have your own comprehension of the rules or the way things work together?
Its not even a personal issue with you. There are SO MANY people on here quick to post names and ids claiming them of shill bidding or other wrongdoings and it turns out the comments are not factual. Just happened in the basketball forum, and once the idiots there had the egg on their face they cry to mods to have the post deleted. All the while, they have lost business for the seller they posted. I just dont understand it. Ill accept being a prick or whatever you want to call me, but the LAST thing you will find me on here doing is spreading lies about sellers.

Hey, sellers have it rough. I get it. eBay has shifted to protect the buyer and screw the seller. I've watched brentandbecca's tweets lately about a jerk that cost him thousands. I have sympathy for honest sellers. But I'm also streetwise enough to know there are really dishonest sellers out there. I tend to be overly cautious, so a seller really needs to do everything they can to be above board.

I'll admit I would be more cautious if the OP had provided a link, but all he did was provide a scenario. There's no link, no seller named. In that scenario, I still say it smells. I'm talking from the viewpoint of a cautious buyer, and you're talking from the viewpoint of an honest seller, so I can see the disagreement. It's wide receiver versus cornerback, who interfered with who! haha!

[pkremer]

Originally Posted by cruiserdaddy7

Oh, and you are referring to dutch auctions. A very different animal than what we were talking about.

Right. That's my point. If he'd had 2, wouldn't he either have created a dutch auction or listed them separately? I probably wouldn't choose the method of sale that this seller did, purely for the reason that it seems shady! It would be really easy to interpret that action that the seller shilled it above the buyer's head to find his max bid, and then sell him the card off eBay for his max bid. You can see why that would be an easy interpretation, right? Then he cancels the listing saying the high bidder never paid. His fees are refunded, and he sells the card off eBay. Sadly, I know there are sellers that do this.