Possible injunction: Stop Panini from having redemptions

[teambutterfield]

Originally Posted by Cubs_rock21

They can do redemptions all they want, they tell you in the fine print that you might pull redemtpions...It wont stop until we all stop buying....

Your lawyer is prob. laughing in his head at the money he'll make off representing a surefire losing case..

The websites fine print "Redemption cards are made available as they are received. Please allow 6-8 weeks for delivery. Panini America, Inc. will send a comparable card in its place if the specified card is not available to ship within 4 months or 8 months depending on what timeframe is selected during the reservation process. If no time period is selected, 8 months will be assumed." What is comparable to panini might not be comparable to you, but they go by Book value, not the inflated market

The only thing you can fight is the amount of time it takes to fill a redemption..Panini covers themselves up to 8 months

Exactly, they have 4 to 8 months. However, how many of us have redemptions over 1 year?

I am not saying redemptions do not have a place in this hobby. However, the length of wait for us (consumers) getting the cards is just not acceptable.

You can have all the fine prints, it all comes down to bait and switch / false advertising.

[Admetstiger]

I am completely fed up with Panini and it's redemption disaster... There seems to be a residual effect that they can't dig out of bc it perpetually grows and grows(meaning they are backlogged)... I keep saying that I'm going to stop buying it's products, and that day is coming very soon...

[Justin]

I don't mind redemptions but I have always disliked an expiration date. In my opinion if you are buying a product and they can give you a redemption then that redemption should not have an expiration date. The price of boxes now can get out of hand quickly and it is a real shitty feeling when you open a $500 box with an expired redemption of the case hit.

[TheHelmutt]

I'm of the opinion that it should be VERY illegal for them to have Experation Dates on redemptions!!! To me that's the true crime/issue.

[98whitesteed]

Would you people have a problem going and buying a car and they tell you "Oh, you will pay for the leather seats now, but we won't have those in stock for 9 months." I think 99.999% of people would have a serious problem with buying something they are not getting in the initial cash/product swap.

[cruiserdaddy7]

Not saying they are running one but Panini almost seems to have the setup of a ponzi scheme. They sell you on something they dont have and once you get furious enough they send you something else. The person who posted that over half of their redemptions are of lesser players must not have purchased their basketball products. Amare, Penny, Durant, Kobe, John Wall to name a few of their past players who have been redemptions. Ive been fed up with Panini far before many on here and my solution was simple. I stopped opening their products and stopped buying white cards with a scratch off on them. Let me tell ya I have far less headaches and ALOT more money. Its a shame since Panini has absolutely destroyed the basketball market for me as someone who enjoys opening product. While I expect to lose money I dont like most of the better cards I pull to be redemptions that I wont see for a year or better. IF I do see them, Ive had to raise too much hell to get them. STOP BUYING THEIR PRODUCTS. That will teach them.

[revil41]

Here is the problem i have with the redemptions. Some of us collect, some of us sell, but what we have in common is the search for that certain card in each product that makes us tingle with joy.
Here comes the kicker, when we get a redemption of that card we would like to PC or sell, they decide not to make the card, to me if you advertise the card, list it in the checklist, and then fail to make the card for any reason that is false advertisment.
They pay players to sign the cards there is no reason not to make the card. Let me make another case! How many of you have had a redemption knowing it has been made and then they tell you they ran out of them(had this happen to me)? Pisses me right off! So if i buy something i expect, no i demand to get what i payed for. Just my rant on the subject

[cruiserdaddy7]

Originally Posted by revil41

Here is the problem i have with the redemptions. Some of us collect, some of us sell, but what we have in common is the search for that certain card in each product that makes us tingle with joy.
Here comes the kicker, when we get a redemption of that card we would like to PC or sell, they decide not to make the card, to me if you advertise the card, list it in the checklist, and then fail to make the card for any reason that is false advertisment.
They pay players to sign the cards there is no reason not to make the card. Let me make another case! How many of you have had a redemption knowing it has been made and then they tell you they ran out of them(had this happen to me)? Pisses me right off! So if i buy something i expect, no i demand to get what i payed for. Just my rant on the subject

Or... How about Panini inserting redemptions of certain players and never fill them to this date. Somehow Upper Deck is able to get those same players a YEAR LATER to sign ON CARD for them yet Panini still doesnt produce the card. Seems as if Panini doesnt want to PAY to have these guys sign but doesnt mind have US pay for things we never receive.

[dpwoodford]

To combine the prior two posts, I imagine Panini would legally have to have a contract to produce the card (obtain jersey/auto) before issuing the redemption. I guess the question is whether players renege on the contract (and don't get paid) or whether Panini don't have one in the first place..

[teambutterfield]

Let's not let Panini take away you hobby.

Originally Posted by cruiserdaddy7

Not saying they are running one but Panini almost seems to have the setup of a ponzi scheme. They sell you on something they dont have and once you get furious enough they send you something else. The person who posted that over half of their redemptions are of lesser players must not have purchased their basketball products. Amare, Penny, Durant, Kobe, John Wall to name a few of their past players who have been redemptions. Ive been fed up with Panini far before many on here and my solution was simple. I stopped opening their products and stopped buying white cards with a scratch off on them. Let me tell ya I have far less headaches and ALOT more money. Its a shame since Panini has absolutely destroyed the basketball market for me as someone who enjoys opening product. While I expect to lose money I dont like most of the better cards I pull to be redemptions that I wont see for a year or better. IF I do see them, Ive had to raise too much hell to get them. STOP BUYING THEIR PRODUCTS. That will teach them.

[teambutterfield]

Some of you have pmed me some valuable infomation, please continue the feedbacks. Stop ripping wont be an option for me. I am not going to have some take away my hobby.

[Shogun2049]

I've actually had a few redemptions of the exact same player from the exact same product. One of the players, I got 2 redemptions for the exact same card and I've received the first one, but not the second one. Albeit, I did enter them at different times, but they're from 2010 Crown Royale, not a new product by any means. Second one was also 2010 Crown Royale. Received the RPS Rookie standard auto card of a player, but have yet to receive the Gold version. Now, how can I get one version or one copy of a card, but not the other one? I know they signed their cards. I've already got one of each. Send me my second cards!

[deltapi1049]

Even I know that some redemptions can't be avoided. That is a player issue, as long as the company plans correctly. Panini or otherwise. However, they seem to have quite a few issues with including more than the small handful that other companies do. Limited and Certified are GREAT examples. The solution is not legal, its spending the money you would have spent on a lawyer on competitor products.

Panini needs to do MUCH better with product planning, at the very least.

[jlzinck]

Stupid people make the world fun.

Simple statements don't say enough.

Let's just say for a minute that we all live in your world on unicorns and rainbows:

The ONLY things that will happen will be:
A. Product will get more expensive becuase the consumers will be paying for the lawsuit.
B. MORE autographs of people who collectors do not want becuase those guys will sign and sign and have done so.
C. There will be fewer products.

None of these things are in the best interest of Panini or people who buy the product.

The athletes are just as much to blame because the are contracted to sign and return. So do it like clokcwork and some do not.

[Admetstiger]

There is one thing that I have noticed that I've been thinking about a little bit...
Take Dez... Didn't sign a lot last year... Rescheduled signings with both Panini and Topps, and never fulfilled it... Now let's say the player is not thrilled about doing the signings, and his agent suggests that he picks one company to sign for to partially rectify the situation... Which company do you think Dez would choose? Easy... Topps...
If you think that I am going to buy NT for $400 to find that I can't get my Von Miller redemptions and other key players filled (like Dez for me last year), then you are even more delusional than Tracy Hackler...

[Brad]

Panini's product development cycle is just too short. They don't allow for enough time for their acquisitions team to get the autos in-house between the time the checklist is confirmed until the product goes live.

This is compounded by the fact that they continue to make their products so heavily rookie oriented, and they usually can't get these guys to start signing until closer to the draft & photo shoot which compresses their timeline even more as opposed to veterans who can sign pretty much at any time and as far in advance as they can provide them with the cards.

It seems simple. Start the development cycle for each product 4-6 months earlier than they typically would. Print the veteran/retired player cards first, send them out for on-card autos giving those guys like 8-10 months to return them before the product goes live. If you are worried about players changing teams in the meantime, have some of them sign a few stickers so you can make some highly desired SP auto cards in their new team's unis if they get traded. That veteran/retired part of the product is then covered well in advance.

Then, once the rookies are drafted and you have photos in their NFL unis, get those cards printed and hire a bunch of interns to do nothing but pester the players' agents to get them signed. Travel to where the top guys are to make sure you have those live in the product. The 6th round tight end who won't be in the league in 6 months isn't a high priority. In fact, feel free to get rid of those lower level autos and use the $ you would be paying those guys to pay for the extra costs associated with these changes to the production schedule.

But let's be honest - none of this will happen as long as you all continue to buy their stuff and it sells out from the factory.

[Admetstiger]

Panini can't keep up logistically with Topps... Topps has vast resources and gets things done... Panini doesn't have the infrastructure... Topps can manage all aspects of it's business more efficiently, and this is due to the FACT that they are the cornerstone company when it comes to trading cards...

Topps' management blows Panini's away... A company's success is determined moreso by it's management and not by it's products... One of the first lesson's I learned in b-school...

Originally Posted by Brad

Panini's product development cycle is just too short. They don't allow for enough time for their acquisitions team to get the autos in-house between the time the checklist is confirmed until the product goes live.

This is compounded by the fact that they continue to make their products so heavily rookie oriented, and they usually can't get these guys to start signing until closer to the draft & photo shoot which compresses their timeline even more as opposed to veterans who can sign pretty much at any time and as far in advance as they can provide them with the cards.

It seems simple. Start the development cycle for each product 4-6 months earlier than they typically would. Print the veteran/retired player cards first, send them out for on-card autos giving those guys like 8-10 months to return them before the product goes live. If you are worried about players changing teams in the meantime, have some of them sign a few stickers so you can make some highly desired SP auto cards in their new team's unis if they get traded. That veteran/retired part of the product is then covered well in advance.

Then, once the rookies are drafted and you have photos in their NFL unis, get those cards printed and hire a bunch of interns to do nothing but pester the players' agents to get them signed. Travel to where the top guys are to make sure you have those live in the product. The 6th round tight end who won't be in the league in 6 months isn't a high priority. In fact, feel free to get rid of those lower level autos and use the $ you would be paying those guys to pay for the extra costs associated with these changes to the production schedule.

But let's be honest - none of this will happen as long as you all continue to buy their stuff and it sells out from the factory.

[Qwasian]

Originally Posted by geezhound

Maybe it's not illegal to do redemptions, but what legal criteria does the practice of repemtions need to meet to be a legal preactice?
Time frames?
Specific replacements if the card is never produced?
Shear number of redemptions?

EVERYTHING business/sales related is legally regulated in some way, so who is regulating Panini?

I've gotten every panini redemption i've ever pulled from a box, every single one of them.

I don't really get what the point of this thread is?

you want them to leave the redemptions out? so you get even less in the card release? or you want them to spend more money and make the boxes cost more?

they are currently doing it the fastest way they know how, and people are buying by the ton.. so whats the issue?

waiting for redemptions sucks I agree, but I definately don't think it's a legal matter.

people are getting way too anal with cards, as far as condition, quality, expectations, money they are worth etc.... it's getting pretty out of hand, card companies are basically feeding gambling addictions so it's almost impossible for customers to be happy, they had unreleastic expecatations to begin with.


I opened more heritage baseball blasters from topps than I can count, I didn't pull a single auto or redemption, I think a redemption or two might have been nice out of them actually.

[Admetstiger]

Originally Posted by Qwasian

I've gotten every panini redemption i've ever pulled from a box, every single one of them.

I don't really get what the point of this thread is?

you want them to leave the redemptions out? so you get even less in the card release? or you want them to spend more money and make the boxes cost more?

they are currently doing it the fastest way they know how, and people are buying by the ton.. so whats the issue?

waiting for redemptions sucks I agree, but I definately don't think it's a legal matter

people are getting way too anal with cards, as far as condition, quality, expectations, money they are worth etc.... it's getting pretty out of hand, card
companies are basically feeding gambling addictions so it's almost impossible
for customers to be happy, they had unreleastic expecatations to begin with.
I opened more heritage baseball blasters from topps than I can count, I didn't pull a single auto or redemption, I think a redemption or two might have been nice out of them actually.

What's up Q?
Let's take what you said here brother...
You received all of your redemptions, so it makes sense that you aren't frustrated... Most other people are...
You are right in thinking that the prices of Panini boxes would have to go up... Which is exactly why I don't have faith that they can fix the situation... I think that panini has more of a chance of becoming UD over time, not Topps...

[lemur01]

Originally Posted by Frankp2311

I agree with the OP. I think the fact that Panini uses redemptions in the excess that they do is criminal. I don't want to pay for IOU's that may or may not yield the card that I'm supposed to receive.

IOU's are just as good as money. JS.

[JASPER01]

Do not like redemptions, do not buy the products that have them.

[BostonNut]

Hopefully your letters to Panini are proofread....

They will be thrown in the trash regardless...

Originally Posted by teambutterfield

Possible injunction: Stop Panini from having redemptions in their products.

Since Panini love taking their sweet time on filling redemptions. My lawyer and I are studying on how to file an injunction in CA to stop them having redemptions in their products.

I know some of you thought it is okay to sit back and have the card companies ram us up the behind. I am not going to sit quiet and have them ruin my hobby. I am not going to accept their bad business practice.

Some of you are saying they are changing their practice on getting the redemptions out. I have not seen any! It has been wait to long and I think with me ripping close to 90k to 100k worth of products (hockey, football, basketball, baseball, even non sports) last year. I have too much invested in this hobby to walk away.

If you have your 2 cents in this matter, please pm me. I already fork up the money to have lawyer involve with this. This is not some empty promise that I will not follow thou with this. I want them to change their practice, so we can all enjoy this hobby.


If you have your 2 cents in this matter, please pm me. I already fork up the money to have lawyer involve with this. This is not some empty promise that I will not follow thou with this. I want them to change their practice, so we can all enjoy this hobby.

[freethrowtommy]

Originally Posted by Admetstiger

There is one thing that I have noticed that I've been thinking about a little bit...
Take Dez... Didn't sign a lot last year... Rescheduled signings with both Panini and Topps, and never fulfilled it... Now let's say the player is not thrilled about doing the signings, and his agent suggests that he picks one company to sign for to partially rectify the situation... Which company do you think Dez would choose? Easy... Topps...
If you think that I am going to buy NT for $400 to find that I can't get my Von Miller redemptions and other key players filled (like Dez for me last year), then you are even more delusional than Tracy Hackler...

Not sure it is that easy. Which company offers more cash per signature?

Dez wasn't even included in Five Star last year, except for autographed letter patches.

[Admetstiger]

Originally Posted by BostonNut

Hopefully your letters to Panini are proofread....

They will be thrown in the trash regardless...

No, hopefully the content of what is said will be recognized, and not the grammatical errors... Panini should be listening to the consumer... Maybe that is one of it's problems...

[Admetstiger]

Originally Posted by freethrowtommy

Not sure it is that easy. Which company offers more cash per signature?

Dez wasn't even included in Five Star last year, except for autographed letter patches.

It probably isn't that easy, but it could factor in that way bc of Topps' name...
I know about Five Star, as I own 5 of the 6 1/1s...