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Old 03-23-2012, 01:02 PM   #51 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Qwasian View Post
I've gotten every panini redemption i've ever pulled from a box, every single one of them.
I don't really get what the point of this thread is?

you want them to leave the redemptions out? so you get even less in the card release? or you want them to spend more money and make the boxes cost more?

they are currently doing it the fastest way they know how, and people are buying by the ton.. so whats the issue?

waiting for redemptions sucks I agree, but I definately don't think it's a legal matter.

people are getting way too anal with cards, as far as condition, quality, expectations, money they are worth etc.... it's getting pretty out of hand, card companies are basically feeding gambling addictions so it's almost impossible for customers to be happy, they had unreleastic expecatations to begin with.


I opened more heritage baseball blasters from topps than I can count, I didn't pull a single auto or redemption, I think a redemption or two might have been nice out of them actually.
So do you think it would be ok to sell one of your sketch cards and instead of sending a completed card you send just a rough sketch? You inform the buyer that in the next month or so the will receive the actual completed sketch card once you get the necessary ink to complete it. Yet, you never actually make the card they purchased and instead replaced it will a lesser player from a different team. Would that be something you would feel comfortable doing?

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Do not like redemptions, do not buy the products that have them.
I'm just pointing out your comment because it was the most recent. The following goes out to all of the people making this comment. I agree that is a good "IDEA" but nothing else. That's like saying we can end national drunk driving fatalities by not purchasing the beer. Not enough people have the willpower to completely stop buying cards/beer. Besides, if this were to actually happen then how would you be able to buy your "singles"? If no one is buying these products to bust then there will be no singles available. Or, if they were available then it would be a much larger premium.

I commend the OP for taking an action that will actually get the company's attention. I really don't agree with the over use of the legal system today to solve petty issues. But, in this case I find it completely appropriate. This whole redemption process has gotten completely out of hand. Why should we as consumers have to pay for unfulfilled promises and poor planning?
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Old 03-23-2012, 01:30 PM   #52 (permalink)
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I think what all the companies should do is make up a point system for the redemptions . for any card outstanding more than 4 months . Then have all the cards in house for redepmtions or replacements on a site with points attached to them . Then you can pick from what is available . I think this would help big time . Plus when the other cards come back the ones that got exchanged will go up on the site for replacements.

Or just do what UD started doing and add cards to different sets to get them out in the market.
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Old 03-23-2012, 01:43 PM   #53 (permalink)
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I agree the way to hit them is in the pocket book and quit buying their product. I spent over $35k on their products last year and because of all their redemptions and lack of customer service, I have not spent one penny on their product this year and have no intentions of changing it until it has turned around.
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Old 03-23-2012, 01:44 PM   #54 (permalink)
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OP, good for you for trying to do something. The card companies have ZERO accountability for their actions and something needs to be done. No clue if this will have any effect, but at least it's a proactive step.
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Old 03-23-2012, 02:04 PM   #55 (permalink)
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before a product reaches the consumers/collectors they all go through suppliers and distributors.
Have you seen those news that product is sold out before they even hit the markets ?
Lets say 10000 people decided to boycott 2012 National Treasures Football. Surely the sales will get hurt but not panini.
its because the SUppliers and distributors have already filled their order .
For paninis view their warehouse is sold out and they already earned their profit.
so who will be hit by the boycott ? its the suppliers and distributors.
What will they do ? To save off further losses they will cut out the price.
So what if they cut the price ? Do you think those 1000 people will not buy even if they are on boycott if the
suppliers and distributors make a product like NT lets say for $250 a box ????
i dont think a collectors boycott can cure a company's practice .

My point here is the boycott should be coming not only from consumers but from the suppliers and retailers as well.
Consumers and collectors should ask the suppliers to step in and help out otherwise its a sorry cause.
But i guess some retailers and shop owners wont care
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Old 03-23-2012, 05:58 PM   #56 (permalink)
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This won't happen. If suppliers and retailers stop selling products from one of the few card companies they would go out of business.

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Originally Posted by skeen View Post
before a product reaches the consumers/collectors they all go through suppliers and distributors.
Have you seen those news that product is sold out before they even hit the markets ?
Lets say 10000 people decided to boycott 2012 National Treasures Football. Surely the sales will get hurt but not panini.
its because the SUppliers and distributors have already filled their order .
For paninis view their warehouse is sold out and they already earned their profit.
so who will be hit by the boycott ? its the suppliers and distributors.
What will they do ? To save off further losses they will cut out the price.
So what if they cut the price ? Do you think those 1000 people will not buy even if they are on boycott if the
suppliers and distributors make a product like NT lets say for $250 a box ????
i dont think a collectors boycott can cure a company's practice .

My point here is the boycott should be coming not only from consumers but from the suppliers and retailers as well.
Consumers and collectors should ask the suppliers to step in and help out otherwise its a sorry cause.
But i guess some retailers and shop owners wont care
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Old 03-23-2012, 06:05 PM   #57 (permalink)
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Things to do to fix:

Just have a few products each year rather then a few dozen

Promote the product but don't give a release date or checklist till all cards are complete

Limit the product run

Sign blank cards and then print over the card with the design (dont know of this is even possible though.
That's actually not a bad Idea but wouldn't work.... Players would sign in the wrong spots that would get printed over, some players autos would have to be specifically designed around due to size and every card would be white unless they went to the press twice.

All they need to do is plan the products where players who don't sign on time get cut from the product and don't get paid and/or Release products much later but we wouldn't see products like 2011 NT come out until June/July 2012.

I wouldn't mind the wait but at the same time, might as well just wait for your redemption.

IMO all they need to do is fix the redemption system like they are doing now. If EVERYONE'S submitted redemption's get sent out within a week of the player returning the cards/stickers then I'm fine with that.
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Old 03-23-2012, 06:12 PM   #58 (permalink)
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If the OP wants to try to sue a card company IMO they should go after UD with their mystery redemption scheme from Exquisite last year. That was way worse than the redemptions Panini or Topps puts out. At lease with Panini or Topps you know what player the card is for. UD pulled a bait and switch of the highest order on that one...
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Old 03-23-2012, 06:18 PM   #59 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by golferphil View Post
If the OP wants to try to sue a card company IMO they should go after UD with their mystery redemption scheme from Exquisite last year. That was way worse than the redemptions Panini or Topps puts out. At lease with Panini or Topps you know what player the card is for. UD pulled a bait and switch of the highest order on that one...
Yeah, while I agree with your premise, UD is a sinking ship. Panini is a mainstay, whether we like it or not, so it can't hurt to try to change some of there habits.
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Old 03-23-2012, 07:34 PM   #60 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by jasoncardmonger View Post
I agree the way to hit them is in the pocket book and quit buying their product. I spent over $35k on their products last year and because of all their redemptions and lack of customer service, I have not spent one penny on their product this year and have no intentions of changing it until it has turned around.
You have the right idea my friend... Panini is probably figuring that they piss people off in the short-term, eventually fix the problem, and then everything will be ok... I'm done with them... They are still selling a ton of product, so they aren't that concerned about these problems...
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Old 03-23-2012, 07:38 PM   #61 (permalink)
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Those saying that they aren't listening to consumers are a little off base. Of course they understand nobody wants redemptions. One of the things that is causing the redemptions in the first place are the consumer. Hear me out before you start bashing me for this (I hate redemptions as much as the next guy).

Redemptions were never as bad as they currently are. One of the reasons was the card companies listened to you the consumers. A lot of consumers would scream from the rooftops about how much they hate sticker autos and why can't more cards have on card autos. Well, the companies heard them and started trying to make more cards with on card autos. The down side of on card autos is they take more time to produce since they have to have the card ready to be signed well before the product comes out in order to give the player enough time to sign it. If they just had sticker autos there would be less redemptions because the player would just have to sign a huge stack of stickers once and be basically set for the year.

There are ways the companies can prevent redemptions like not having so many products or having something in place to ensure they are signed like scheduled signings with the player. They were too quick to have something new in place probably because all they can see are the dollar signs in their eyes. "Ooooo, we have on card autos. BIG BUCKS NO WHAMMIES!!! STOP!!!" Plenty of things sound good in your head but without a good plan to execute it and actually following through with the execution, there will be bumps in the road like an excessive amount of redemption.

If you read all that, congratulations.
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Old 03-23-2012, 09:50 PM   #62 (permalink)
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This is what is wrong with this hobby. The OP is trying to make a change. I have been buying wax since 1997 and all I have seen is the price go up and the quality go down! Why do we accept this? Because we feel helpless and are addicted to cards I guess.

The OP is trying to make the hobby better for everyone and a lot of you are against him. I can't believe some of you.

They jack up the price, they insert a bunch of event-worn garbage, they make 90% of the autographs on stickers, they won't guarantee their game worn stuff is from a specific game, they insert numerous redemptions and then have the audacity to put an expiration date on it and we accept it all.
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Old 03-23-2012, 11:15 PM   #63 (permalink)
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This is quite simple folks... Dont buy Panini products... As a result, the suppliers have stock and don't need to refill inventory on the product... The residual effect is Panini being stuck with inventory and offering it at a lower price, thereby hurting it's revenues and margins... The one guy is correct about the distribution channel, but he assumes that they automatically move a majority of the product with no problem...
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Old 03-23-2012, 11:19 PM   #64 (permalink)
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My LCS owner was at the Vegas Summit and said the 2 case team draft break of Certified and Limited football had 31 redemptions?! Was anyone reading this at the Vegas Summit and did you see it? BTW he had the Dolphins as his team and he only got a couple Clyde Gates redemptions, no Marino stuff.
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Old 03-24-2012, 09:01 AM   #65 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Admetstiger View Post
This is quite simple folks... Dont buy Panini products... As a result, the suppliers have stock and don't need to refill inventory on the product... The residual effect is Panini being stuck with inventory and offering it at a lower price, thereby hurting it's revenues and margins... The one guy is correct about the distribution channel, but he assumes that they automatically move a majority of the product with no problem...
I'm telling everyone that you can make a difference this year if you avoid NT for this one year... If you guys don't buy wax this year, and MAYBE a single or two that you want (I am buying NOTHING from NT this year strictly on principle, nor do I plan to buy and of Panini's products), then I promise you unhappy people that there will be drastic changes....I'm telling all of you if Panini doesnt meet it's projected revenues and margins then they are going to have lots of problems... You can make a difference... This is coming from an Investment Banker...
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