Fake patch on this BGS card?

[Jackg1980]

Originally Posted by 510mikey

you are nuts !!!

Just to inform you that is true. You may not believe it but it is. There are people who make a living faking patch cards.

[Grid]

Originally Posted by DRS78

Really? That's not what this says.

Counterfeit Sports Cards Getting More Sophisticated | Sports Collectors Daily|Sports collecting news

That article says nothing to contradict my statement. They talk about people faking entire cards, and go on to say ""We send scans to the card companies every day and ask 'did you use this patch?', Anderson said of some of the higher quality logo patch cards that are submitted. "

So outside of sending some cards of higher quality logo patches No where did they state that they authenticate the patch itself.

Obviously if someone uses a Yankees patch in a Packers jersey card, or horribly mutilates the patch window when switching patches with a better one and its so obvious what happened and BGS refuses to grade the card is one thing. Again a lot fakers send their junk to BGS to add a layer of authenticity to their work, and a lot of times it slides right through. Due to the fact that BGS does not authenticate the patch. Just like I said.

Do they refuse to grade obviously faked patches? Yup. But thats just a byproduct of doing their job. So again, you are paying for them to make sure the card itself is real. They will reject a card that is trimmed, or if the patch is obviously faked, but when they slab it that does not mean the patch was put in by the factory. Just that it was good enough to get past the BGS obvious smell test. There have been dozens of cards posted on here that were slabbed by BGS and the patches were fake. There is a nice Eli Manning going around from Hot Prospects that has an ironed on Reebok logo fresh off a replica jersey.

A fellow board member nailed it with this.
SCU Scam School – Sports Cards Uncensored

"Know that Graded Does Not Mean Real

I cant stress this enough. BGS and PSA do not authenticate anything but the card itself. Patches, autos on card, etc are all services outside of normal grading. Scammers use this to their advantage when they authenticate cards that have fake patches or fake autos. If the card itself is real, BGS and PSA consider it to be real, regardless of the other stuff on the card."

[Grid]

My favorite






Again people, use your best judgement when buying a patch card. Dont buy the holder and assume that everything in it is authentic.

[Jackg1980]

I have probably seen a couple hundred fake patch cards that were graded. Just go to a big show and you see them everywhere. Only safe ones are single color. Even heard about someone faking a patch card and resealing it in a pack, then doing a box break on camera.

[510mikey]

Originally Posted by Grid

My favorite






Again people, use your best judgement when buying a patch card. Dont buy the holder and assume that everything in it is authentic.

how is it the card doesnt get damaged putting the fake serial numbers and patch in it ?

[Andrew Jones]

Originally Posted by 510mikey

how is it the card doesnt get damaged putting the fake serial numbers and patch in it ?

The serial numbers are not fake Einstein.

[DRS78]

Originally Posted by Grid

That article says nothing to contradict my statement. They talk about people faking entire cards, and go on to say ""We send scans to the card companies every day and ask 'did you use this patch?', Anderson said of some of the higher quality logo patch cards that are submitted. "

So outside of sending some cards of higher quality logo patches No where did they state that they authenticate the patch itself.

Obviously if someone uses a Yankees patch in a Packers jersey card, or horribly mutilates the patch window when switching patches with a better one and its so obvious what happened and BGS refuses to grade the card is one thing. Again a lot fakers send their junk to BGS to add a layer of authenticity to their work, and a lot of times it slides right through. Due to the fact that BGS does not authenticate the patch. Just like I said.

Do they refuse to grade obviously faked patches? Yup. But thats just a byproduct of doing their job. So again, you are paying for them to make sure the card itself is real. They will reject a card that is trimmed, or if the patch is obviously faked, but when they slab it that does not mean the patch was put in by the factory. Just that it was good enough to get past the BGS obvious smell test. There have been dozens of cards posted on here that were slabbed by BGS and the patches were fake. There is a nice Eli Manning going around from Hot Prospects that has an ironed on Reebok logo fresh off a replica jersey.

A fellow board member nailed it with this.
SCU Scam School – Sports Cards Uncensored

"Know that Graded Does Not Mean Real

I cant stress this enough. BGS and PSA do not authenticate anything but the card itself. Patches, autos on card, etc are all services outside of normal grading. Scammers use this to their advantage when they authenticate cards that have fake patches or fake autos. If the card itself is real, BGS and PSA consider it to be real, regardless of the other stuff on the card."

Sure it does, you said they don't care about the patch in you first post.

[bag0bull]

I've sent out SP Authentic and Exquisite cards with nice patches before to Beckett only to have them returned ungraded because they questioned the patch. Still have the receipt and the so called reason why they didn't grade. So yes, Beckett does look into the authenticity of a patch. I even got into a debate on the Beckett forums a while back with a BGS supporter after the whole ordeal.

[Jackg1980]

Originally Posted by bag0bull

I've sent out SP Authentic and Exquisite cards with nice patches before to Beckett only to have them returned ungraded because they questioned the patch. Still have the receipt and the so called reason why they didn't grade. So yes, Beckett does look into the authenticity of a patch. I even got into a debate on the Beckett forums a while back with a BGS supporter after the whole ordeal.

Well everyone they do not grade they grade a bunch more.

[mimi mo money]

imo, there is little difference b/w a stranger faking a patch and having a "legit" patch/jersey from Topps/Panini. That is to say, the 100 "jerseys" that the players were at the same time [see Ingram photo] have been worn for a few milliseconds. big whoop...

[Jackg1980]

Originally Posted by mimi mo money

imo, there is little difference b/w a stranger faking a patch and having a "legit" patch/jersey from Topps/Panini. That is to say, the 100 "jerseys" that the players were at the same time [see Ingram photo] have been worn for a few milliseconds. big whoop...

It may even turn out that these worn jersey are probably fake anyway. But still I rather have a real jersey worn by the player for a second and a fake one worn by a scammer. Huge difference.

[bag0bull]

Originally Posted by Jackg1980

Well everyone they do not grade they grade a bunch more.

Unfortunately they are not perfect and they do miss just like the crosby above (as well as the ones I sent out IMO)but based on my experience they at least make some sort of effort to authenticate patches. If that wasn't the case my cards would've been slabbed.

[510mikey]

Originally Posted by Andrew Jones

The serial numbers are not fake Einstein.

both are 88/99 dimwit

[allday_vikes]

Originally Posted by 510mikey

both are 88/99 dimwit

^^^^I just LOL!!!

[Drdduet]

Not every sick patch is a fake. Many of those Ravens patches were put into the product--there's is no doubt about that. There's also no doubt that there are many fake patches out there as well. Card companies are the only entities with any ability to protect the integrity of their releases--I've heard it here before and wish they would listen--photo document all patch cards!

[allday_vikes]

Originally Posted by Drdduet

Not every sick patch is a fake. Many of those Ravens patches were put into the product--there's is no doubt about that. There's also no doubt that there are many fake patches out there as well. Card companies are the only entities with any ability to protect the integrity of their releases--I've heard it here before and wish they would listen--photo document all patch cards!

Maybe they have something to hide from us!!!

[Drdduet]

Originally Posted by allday_vikes

Maybe they have something to hide from us!!!

What would they want to hide?

That there patch selections really suck? That would mean they count on fake patches to stimulate buying of their stock of product, which is usually mostly gone before cards hit the secondary market. I'm not sure what they would have gain by hiding this??? what are you thinking?

[allday_vikes]

Originally Posted by Drdduet

What would they want to hide?

That there patch selections really suck? That would mean they count on fake patches to stimulate buying of their stock of product, which is usually mostly gone before cards hit the secondary market. I'm not sure what they would have gain by hiding this??? what are you thinking?

That we could put the pieces together and realize they're not even putting in the, "event worn" jersey but some flea market ones!! lol

[Grid]

Originally Posted by DRS78

Sure it does, you said they don't care about the patch in you first post.

OK you are right, BGS cares about the patch and they never would grade a fake patch

The fact your article says they question SOME of the patches when its a higher end logo patch does not imply, whatsoever, that they authenticate the patch that is in the card. It just means they catch the obvious. Like I said, if they catch a blatant fake patch they will reject it. But to say they check all patch cards, and to assume all cards graded by Beckett means the patch is authentic is false.

And the fact you keep pushing this topic leads me to believe you must make a lot of fake patches and send it to BGS to try and gain confidence when reselling them. Why else would you keep insinuating that everything BGS slabs would be authentic? What do you have to gain from this?

Me, I'm try to help other collectors out by saying just because it is slabbed doesnt mean its authentic. Like the Sid cards above. Why would you want to lead them into thinking something else? Makes no sense. Than again, most of your posts dont.

[mjc829]

Originally Posted by Lockdown32

You can't compare 2008 ravens cards to 2011 or 2012. The logo patches are used much more now than they were in 2008.

That's an incorrect statement. Of course you can make that comparison because that's the year it started. I put this set together when they came out. I opened a couple of cases and also searched the e-bay daily. Within days of SPA hitting the streets there were at least 6-8 of the Rice patches in SPA. Flacco's were redemptions in SPA and Exquisite.

After the 2008 season, these patches were common. What wasn't that year was the Reebok logos in SPA. Since 2009, the Reebok logo has appeared in a number of products.

This card is probably not a fake.

Part of the problem now with the hobby is too many people are yelling, "fake" about everything. There is little trust out there and everyone thinks everyone else is trying to screw them over. Now, let's further fuel the fires of mistrust by trying to debunk graded cards.

My suggestion would be to buy what you like for your PC. It's not going anywhere.

After 3000+ purchases on e-bay over the past 5 hrs, I'm almost certain that someone has probably sold me a fake or altered card. I would still trust most of the graded purchases from BGS to be 95% accurate.

[Andrew Jones]

Originally Posted by 510mikey

both are 88/99 dimwit

That's because they are the same card. The top scan is the "before" with the patch that was in the card when it was originally pulled from a pack. The bottom scan is the "after" where the original patch was replaced with a fake patch and then slabbed by BGS. In other words, the 2 scans demonstrate that BGS slabbed a fake patch.

I'm pretty sure I'm not the one who is the dimwit here.

[Jackg1980]

Originally Posted by mjc829

That's an incorrect statement. Of course you can make that comparison because that's the year it started. I put this set together when they came out. I opened a couple of cases and also searched the e-bay daily. Within days of SPA hitting the streets there were at least 6-8 of the Rice patches in SPA. Flacco's were redemptions in SPA and Exquisite.

After the 2008 season, these patches were common. What wasn't that year was the Reebok logos in SPA. Since 2009, the Reebok logo has appeared in a number of products.

This card is probably not a fake.

Part of the problem now with the hobby is too many people are yelling, "fake" about everything. There is little trust out there and everyone thinks everyone else is trying to screw them over. Now, let's further fuel the fires of mistrust by trying to debunk graded cards.

My suggestion would be to buy what you like for your PC. It's not going anywhere.

After 3000+ purchases on e-bay over the past 5 hrs, I'm almost certain that someone has probably sold me a fake or altered card. I would still trust most of the graded purchases from BGS to be 95% accurate.

I heard about this one guy who shaves cards for a living and all of them get graded. He is believed to have been doing this for up to 20 years. Supposely he shaves hundreds every month. Hopefully they catch him.