Combined Shipping ethics?

[bigzig]

Originally Posted by ebacardi2

IT DOES NOT MATTER IF THE BUYER READ THE DESCRIPTION THAT THE SELLER DOES NOT COMBINE SHIPPING. HE CAN STILL LEAVE NEGATIVE FEEDBACK AND LOW DSR'S IF HE FEELS THE PRICE IS EXCESSIVE. THIS IS BS ABOUT NOT BUYING THE CARDS, Just because you purchase an item and pay the shipping cost does not mean you agree with it and that is the sellers fault for asking for $3 per card and they have to deal with the fallout.

The fact that he CAN leave it doesn't make it right. Why buy knowing you are going to neg him? That's just flat out malicious. Buy your cards somewhere else.

[uberfatty]

Originally Posted by jcwatchdog

Nothing was against ebay policy. You are not required to combine the shipping costs. Maybe the seller is sending them all in screwdown cases and this is the reasoning behind the increased cost. No one really knows, except that when you see the costs, its your responsibility to find out before buying.

I get your screwdown point, but we all know that these are not being shipped in screwdowns and that is just a distraction from the real issue - combining seven separate transactions into one shipping package without discounting the shipping cost.

Please refer to post #63 - how is shipping $21 in one package for seven separate payments not against policy?

[ebacardi2]

Originally Posted by ssbledsoe

Why precisely is it ok for the buyer to not read the description? Do you honestly believe the seller should just simply do whatever the hell the buyer wants because they hold the key to their feedback and their ability to sell on eBay?

It is not okay for the buyer not to read the description, like I said the buyer can not complain and needs to agree to pay the high shipping but has every right to leave the approiate feedback and dsr's. Just because you agree to the sellers terms does not make them right. The seller can do whatever they want but don't be surprised on the dsr's

[freethrowtommy]

Originally Posted by jcwatchdog

Nothing was against ebay policy. You are not required to combine the shipping costs. Maybe the seller is sending them all in screwdown cases and this is the reasoning behind the increased cost. No one really knows, except that when you see the costs, its your responsibility to find out before buying.

Does that mean it is the seller's responsibility to meet those shipping costs? If I am paying $21 for shipping, I would hope that my money is going into shipping and not into the sellers pocket. Ship my package overnight... that should get you there, right?

If I pay that much and get a package that has $2 for shipping and was in top loaders, it is my right to give him feedback for that. He overcharged for shipping which is against eBay policy. If you don't combine shipping and want to charge an outrageous amount, that money better go back into my product... pretty simple to me.

[uberfatty]

Originally Posted by bigzig

The fact that he CAN leave it doesn't make it right. Why buy knowing you are going to neg him? That's just flat out malicious. Buy your cards somewhere else.

still haven't commented on whether eBay policy is being violated or not. DSR's and feedback are secondary to this point. refer to #63 and #68 - understand the point I'm trying to make here?

Just for clarification - I don't think I'd ever neg somebody based on shipping costs in a situation like this - but I wouldn't hesitate to ding DSR's for shipping cost in this combined shipping situation.

[ebacardi2]

Originally Posted by bigzig

The fact that he CAN leave it doesn't make it right. Why buy knowing you are going to neg him? That's just flat out malicious. Buy your cards somewhere else.

I agree with that, That is why I think the DSR is the only thing the OP should do. The DSR system is there for a reason and should be used honestly, I would not give the seller a pass because he stated the shipping cost in he description. The seller is making money on the shipping, so it is wrong.

[37Jetson]

If the buyer did not want to risk paying the full $21 for postage (when the seller clearly stated that he did not combine shipping) then he should not have bid on seven items.

Originally Posted by ebacardi2

Well we have 23463 feedback and have been around alonggggggg time and this is ridiculous as you agreed upon as well. I said it is the buyers fault and he should not complain in the future BUT is entitled to leave the appropriate feedback. There is a difference between paying the shipping and agreeing with it. The buyer has to agree to pay the charges but not agree with them, this is where we differ in feedback etc. The seller is the one that is taking the chance of getting banned from ebay by charging the same for each card, and the buyer has every right to ding the dsr that is why its there to make sure sellers are complying with ebay rules.

OP Just do what you feel is right. If you want to leave positive feedback because cards arrived safe and packaged well do that and just leave the appropriate dsr's its your choice.

[addicted36]

I actually love the idea of not saying anything to the seller about combined shipping at this point and just paying and waiting. If the cards don't come in with different packages then obviously he didn't get the cards. The seller can claim he sent them together but his auction clearly says he did not combine shipping so taking a picture of the package received will show that one package was received, the cost of postage was $3, and paypal/ebay will be forced to decide two things...

Thing 1 - Seller charged $21 for shipping, actual cost of shipping was $3. This breaks ebay rules clearly known. What do they do to people breaking ebay rules?

Thing 2 - Buy has one DC # for 7 cards, DC # is the same for all the cards, buyer says he didn't receive all the cards and only one. Seller says he doesn't combine shipping. Something doesn't add up...did the seller combine shipping and if so why did he state he didn't? Is the buyer lying? If he was lying how can paypal say he was lying if his own auction says he doesn't do that sort of thing anyway?

At the worst paypal believes the cards were all sent together and proof is given the seller is breaking Ebay policy and seller is screwed with Ebay. At best buyer is refunded all money except for one card. And all of this is because the seller ripped off a buyer by combining shipping and refusing to combine shipping charges.

If seller combines the purchases into one package and ships them together and charges the buyer for separate shipping then he deserves what he gets. If he sends them separate then he is just an idiot who's done nothing wrong. The bone of contention is that the seller is going to put all of the cards into one package and charge for 7 different shipments. No matter what the hell anyone says that is a douchebag thing to do

[freethrowtommy]

Originally Posted by 37Jetson

If the buyer did not want to risk paying the full $21 for postage (when the seller clearly stated that he did not combine shipping) then he should not have bid on seven items.

That's fine. But then the seller should be paying somewhere near $21 for shipping his package(s).

[bigzig]

Originally Posted by Andrew Jones

How is expecting sellers to abide a website's terms and conditions entitlement? When I buy from amazon.com, I expect the sellers will abide by amazon.com's terms and conditions (i.e. sending me an authentic, new Blu Ray when I order a brand new Blu Ray). When I buy from eBay.com, I expect the sellers will abide by eBay.com's terms and conditions. That's not entitlement, that's just the way online retail businesses of that sort operate.

What I'm saying is that it's the buyers responsibility (per ebay rules) to read the description and be aware of what they are purchasing. As well as it's the sellers responsibility to abide by the rules as well.

Why is it ok for the buyer to go gung ho after the seller, but the seller has to sit there and take it if they were both outside of policy?

[hche]

If the buyer gets 7 separate pakages or gets the cards overnight, he can't complain about the high shipping.

If he gets 1 package through regular mail that has $5 postage on it, he can ding the seller as many times as he wants, even he did not read the description. The seller clearly overcharged the shipping. When the seller charged $3 for each card, he needs to make sure all $3 is used for shipping.

[cking]

I would simply say all the packages had dummy cards in them and get all my money back. You mess with the bull you get the horns. You have no problem robbing me, I have no problem robbing you. Where I come from we dont get mad, we get even.

[uberfatty]

Originally Posted by 37Jetson

If the buyer did not want to risk paying the full $21 for postage (when the seller clearly stated that he did not combine shipping) then he should not have bid on seven items.

so you are comfortable with the seller violating eBay policy? Any thoughts on whether the seller is obligated to ship seven packages if the seller clearly states he doesn't combine shipping?

[uberfatty]

Originally Posted by hche

If the buyer gets 7 separate pakages or gets the cards overnight, he can't complain about the high shipping.

If he gets 1 package through regular mail that has $5 postage on it, he can ding the seller as many times as he wants, even he did not read the description. The seller clearly overcharged the shipping.

ding ding ding - we have a winner. (as long as you mean ding DSR's, not necessarily leaving a negative feedback).

[37Jetson]

Says who? Ebay has provided a warped sense of entitlement for buyers.

I for one would never purchase from a seller like this that is gouging on shipping. It is bad business, but the buyer has to take responsibility for reading the auction.

Originally Posted by freethrowtommy

That's fine. But then the seller should be paying somewhere near $21 for shipping his package(s).

[bigzig]

Originally Posted by uberfatty

still haven't commented on whether eBay policy is being violated or not. DSR's and feedback are secondary to this point. refer to #63 and #68 - understand the point I'm trying to make here?

Just for clarification - I don't think I'd ever neg somebody based on shipping costs in a situation like this - but I wouldn't hesitate to ding DSR's for shipping cost in this combined shipping situation.

Well give me a minute..I'm cooking dinner, watching kids, and getting hammered all over the place from those who disagree with me.

Yes, "technically" it is against policy to ship gouge. It's also technically not ok to not read the description...why is the seller getting hammered so much while most are saying its ok for the buyer to leave the neg even though he should've known before he bid?

A single dsr ding is probably how I would handle it. $21 is outrageous, but if it was my fault,I sure as hell wouldn't be taking it out on the seller as some are suggesting.

[ssbledsoe]

Originally Posted by bigzig

The fact that he CAN leave it doesn't make it right. Why buy knowing you are going to neg him? That's just flat out malicious. Buy your cards somewhere else.

The best point I've seen yet. I think we all agree, the seller has no business with those selling practices on eBay. The fastest way to get those sellers out of the hobby is to not buy from them. Buying their stuff and then spitefully ding DSR's and leaving negatives just doesn't compute to me...

[freethrowtommy]

Originally Posted by 37Jetson

Says who? Ebay has provided a warped sense of entitlement for buyers.

I for one would never purchase from a seller like this that is gouging on shipping. It is bad business, but the buyer has to take responsibility for reading the auction.

Says eBay!

The policy clearly states:

What you can charge
Actual shipping cost: This is the amount for shipping the item. It should be what you paid the carrier.


Handling cost: This can include the cost of packaging materials and insurance cost, if any.

and then there's a bunch of stuff that isn't relevant here, and then this:

What you're not allowed to charge

Related fees: Things like gas, mileage, time spent at a carrier, employee wages, or eBay and PayPal fees shouldn't be added.

Since when is following a policy and abiding by rules "entitlement"? If the buyer has the responsibility to read, the seller has the responsibility to be honest with what he is paying for/charging. Why is this on the buyer?

[uberfatty]

Originally Posted by 37Jetson

Says who? Ebay has provided a warped sense of entitlement for buyers.

I for one would never purchase from a seller like this that is gouging on shipping. It is bad business, but the buyer has to take responsibility for reading the auction.

Post #63 - eBay policy. Is this really that hard? It's not entitlement for the buyer, it's the site's own policy for the seller. Buyer pays $21 for shipping - per eBay policy that should be the actual cost of shipping and handling.

[uberfatty]

Originally Posted by bigzig

Well give me a minute..I'm cooking dinner, watching kids, and getting hammered all over the place from those who disagree with me.

Yes, "technically" it is against policy to ship gouge. It's also technically not ok to not read the description...why is the seller getting hammered so much while most are saying its ok for the buyer to leave the neg even though he should've known before he bid?

A single dsr ding is probably how I would handle it. $21 is outrageous, but if it was my fault,I sure as hell wouldn't be taking it out on the seller as some are suggesting.

I think the seller is getting hammered for blatantly violating eBay policy (assuming this isn't overnighted or something). And I think most are actually in agreement that a feedback negative would be excessive in this case, and DSR ding would be appropriate.

/thread?

[ssbledsoe]

Originally Posted by uberfatty

Post #63 - eBay policy. Is this really that hard? It's not entitlement for the buyer, it's the site's own policy for the seller. Buyer pays $21 for shipping - per eBay policy that should be the actual cost of shipping and handling.

This correct. If the seller spends $21 on shipping, I don't see where the buyer has a complaint other than buying from a dbag of a seller...

[go_steelers07]

Originally Posted by freethrowtommy

Says eBay!



Since when is following a policy and abiding by rules "entitlement"? If the buyer has the responsibility to read, the seller has the responsibility to be honest with what he is paying for/charging. Why is this on the buyer?

Originally Posted by uberfatty

Post #63 - eBay policy. Is this really that hard? It's not entitlement for the buyer, it's the site's own policy for the seller. Buyer pays $21 for shipping - per eBay policy that should be the actual cost of shipping and handling.

why are you guys assuming that the seller is only going to ship in one package for much less than what was charged? aren't you putting the horse before the cart?

as of right now, the seller HAS NOT violated any ebay policy.

[bigzig]

Originally Posted by addicted36

I actually love the idea of not saying anything to the seller about combined shipping at this point and just paying and waiting. If the cards don't come in with different packages then obviously he didn't get the cards. The seller can claim he sent them together but his auction clearly says he did not combine shipping so taking a picture of the package received will show that one package was received, the cost of postage was $3, and paypal/ebay will be forced to decide two things...

Thing 1 - Seller charged $21 for shipping, actual cost of shipping was $3. This breaks ebay rules clearly known. What do they do to people breaking ebay rules?

Thing 2 - Buy has one DC # for 7 cards, DC # is the same for all the cards, buyer says he didn't receive all the cards and only one. Seller says he doesn't combine shipping. Something doesn't add up...did the seller combine shipping and if so why did he state he didn't? Is the buyer lying? If he was lying how can paypal say he was lying if his own auction says he doesn't do that sort of thing anyway?

At the worst paypal believes the cards were all sent together and proof is given the seller is breaking Ebay policy and seller is screwed with Ebay. At best buyer is refunded all money except for one card. And all of this is because the seller ripped off a buyer by combining shipping and refusing to combine shipping charges.

If seller combines the purchases into one package and ships them together and charges the buyer for separate shipping then he deserves what he gets. If he sends them separate then he is just an idiot who's done nothing wrong. The bone of contention is that the seller is going to put all of the cards into one package and charge for 7 different shipments. No matter what the hell anyone says that is a douchebag thing to do

Just because seller does not combine shipping costs does not mean he can not combine packages. The seller will be able to enter the same dc for all cards. What you are implying is extremely unethical. Anyone who would actually try and get away with that should be shot on site.

[Andrew Jones]

Originally Posted by bigzig

What I'm saying is that it's the buyers responsibility (per ebay rules) to read the description and be aware of what they are purchasing. As well as it's the sellers responsibility to abide by the rules as well.

Why is it ok for the buyer to go gung ho after the seller, but the seller has to sit there and take it if they were both outside of policy?

I was unaware that eBay has a rule requiring buyers to read the description. Buyers should certainly do that and I'm sure eBay strongly encourages it, but I wasn't aware that was actually a part of the terms and conditions of using eBay. Anyway, assuming that such a rule exists, that does not absolve the seller from adhering to eBay's rules. So let's examine this situation.

The buyer never said he is not going to pay for the auctions he won. In other words, he has not said he won't comply with his obligation to pay for his purchases. Once he does so (including the $21 in shipping charges), from eBay's perspective he has complied with eBay's terms and conditions. If the seller then does not send the 7 items in 7 separate envelopes or does not spend in the area of $21 on shipping and handling (not including the items eBay rules say a seller cannot charge for), the seller has not complied with eBay's terms and conditions from eBay's perspective. Thus, from where eBay sits, one party complied with the site's rules, and the other didn't. In this scenario, you're saying the party that complied with the terms and conditions would be demonstrating "entitlement" by raising an issue with eBay regarding the other party that didn't comply with the terms and conditions because he didn't get what he paid for and expected based on what he read in the auction. I just don't understand that. If anyone is acting entitled here, it is the seller who thinks he's entitled to a $3 per transaction fee for every item he sells regardless of what it actually costs him to ship the item(s).

[achilles01987]

Originally Posted by bigzig

What I'm saying is that it's the buyers responsibility (per ebay rules) to read the description and be aware of what they are purchasing. As well as it's the sellers responsibility to abide by the rules as well.

Why is it ok for the buyer to go gung ho after the seller, but the seller has to sit there and take it if they were both outside of policy?

It's okay, because as of now eBay says its okay! eBay is a buyers market! A seller should know that! I sell on eBay and do the utmost to make sure customers ate happy! Why? Because I'm scared to death as the buyer has the power! On the flip side I take comfort as a buyer!