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Old 05-02-2012, 11:51 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Default PEYTON MANNING - atomic refractor autograph ? QUESTIONABLE ?

Yes, I know:
1) the card has the autograph certification stamp in the upper-left hand corner
2) BGS has graded and authenticated the autograph


But, (my personal opinion only), this autograph looks NOTHING like any of this autographs. From his rookie season on to present...

1998 (7B version) Bowman's Best Atomic Refractors Autograph
Peyton Manning RC

PEYTON MANNING 1998 BOWMAN'S BEST ATOMIC REFRACTOR ROOKIE AUTOGRAPH BGS 9.5 GEM | eBay


thoughts/opinions?
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Last edited by coureymarshall; 05-02-2012 at 12:17 PM.
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Old 05-02-2012, 11:59 AM   #2 (permalink)
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it looks legit to me... plus its got the stamp of approval... the thing i notced that might have throw off the auto is the size of the marker head... if you look at all his collectors edge he uses a big sharpie and htis one its smaller so theres gonna be more detail in this auto than the other ones... just my O... but it looks authentic to me!
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Old 05-02-2012, 12:07 PM   #3 (permalink)
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I could sh!t in a box and give it the stamp of approval....

Your point?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sljock53 View Post
it looks legit to me... plus its got the stamp of approval... the thing i notced that might have throw off the auto is the size of the marker head... if you look at all his collectors edge he uses a big sharpie and htis one its smaller so theres gonna be more detail in this auto than the other ones... just my O... but it looks authentic to me!
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Old 05-02-2012, 12:08 PM   #4 (permalink)
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I think there is better ways to word this title. Like maybe, Peyton manning atomic ref auto questionable? Labeling somthing fake that you have no proof of is wrong. Especially a card in a bgs slab, with the auto cert right on the front. It also could put a damper on the seller for no reason. You just can't call fake because YOU think the auto looks questionable. This card looks to be authentic to me, but that's just my opinion. In no way am I trying to bash the OP, just saying screaming fake with no proof is wrong. Too many people on here do it and it's wrong.

Greg
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Old 05-02-2012, 12:11 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gr5 View Post
I think there is better ways to word this title. Like maybe, Peyton manning atomic ref auto questionable? Labeling somthing fake that you have no proof of is wrong. Especially a card in a bgs slab, with the auto cert right on the front. It also could put a damper on the seller for no reason. You just can't call fake because YOU think the auto looks questionable. This card looks to be authentic to me, but that's just my opinion. In no way am I trying to bash the OP, just saying screaming fake with no proof is wrong. Too many people on here do it and it's wrong.

Greg
He has a ? next to fake. He is asking a question and definetly not screaming. Also how does someone have proof that a card is fake? Its hard to get pictures of scammers forging the cards.
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Old 05-02-2012, 12:14 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sljock53 View Post
it looks legit to me... plus its got the stamp of approval... the thing i notced that might have throw off the auto is the size of the marker head... if you look at all his collectors edge he uses a big sharpie and htis one its smaller so theres gonna be more detail in this auto than the other ones... just my O... but it looks authentic to me!
I agree that a lot of the Collector's Edge Rookie Ink autographs use 'thick' marker head; however, call me crazy, but I think the autograph on this particular atomic refractor looks "FAKE" in all forms. If you were took look at 100 Peyton autographs from his 1998 season, I would guarantee you that this one sticks out like a "sore thumb"

LOOK at the PRESSURE POINT in the "y" to "t" in "peyton" .... The signature clearly stops after signing the "y" and restarts when signing the "t"

That is one of many reasons I can point out as to why the autograph looks forged...
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Old 05-02-2012, 12:15 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gr5 View Post
I think there is better ways to word this title. Like maybe, Peyton manning atomic ref auto questionable? Labeling somthing fake that you have no proof of is wrong. Especially a card in a bgs slab, with the auto cert right on the front. It also could put a damper on the seller for no reason. You just can't call fake because YOU think the auto looks questionable. This card looks to be authentic to me, but that's just my opinion. In no way am I trying to bash the OP, just saying screaming fake with no proof is wrong. Too many people on here do it and it's wrong.

Greg
Greg,

You are absolutely correct... I think I just pulled a Jon Harbaugh and should have been more clear in my words

will change the title!
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Old 05-02-2012, 12:20 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Quote:
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He has a ? next to fake. He is asking a question and definetly not screaming. Also how does someone have proof that a card is fake? Its hard to get pictures of scammers forging the cards.
Jack,
Thank you for the support!
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Old 05-02-2012, 12:27 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jackg1980 View Post
He has a ? next to fake. He is asking a question and definetly not screaming. Also how does someone have proof that a card is fake? Its hard to get pictures of scammers forging the cards.
Lol, there is PLENTY of ways to prove somthing is fake. Like I said in no way was I trying to attack the OP. Making a thread about a card and questioning it being fake, that's what I'd consider "screaming fake". Also not saying the OP is one, but there are way to many post like this. People who just don't know 100% is somthing is real or fake, then assum it is. It makes the seller look bad for no reason. Hence why it should not be done.

Do you have any imput on the situation with the card?

Greg
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Old 05-02-2012, 12:34 PM   #10 (permalink)
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PEYTON:

the signature shows a distinct double-pump in signing the "y" (looks like a "u" followed by a "y")

the signature comes to a complete halt after signing the "y"

the signature restarts at the top of the "t"

the cross-bar on the "t" is about two to three times the length of his signed cross-bar "t"

there is a distinct "o" in his signature (usually 1998 signatures do not show represenation of an "o" or "n") ... when they do, represent the "o n," it appears as a "t" followed by either and upward loop or a "t" followed by a "n" without an "o"

the signature after the "n" flatlines as opposed to hooking down or up
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Old 05-02-2012, 12:38 PM   #11 (permalink)
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um my point is... you cant forge the stamp of approval? But you should Sh*t in a box... and forge a stamp of approval and forge peytons auto... and sell it as peytons Pile of Sh*t and see if you get any buyers!!!! EBAY 1/1

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I could sh!t in a box and give it the stamp of approval....

Your point?
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Old 05-02-2012, 12:39 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sljock53 View Post
um my point is... you cant forge the stamp of approval? But you should Sh*t in a box... and forge a stamp of approval and forge peytons auto... and sell it as peytons Pile of Sh*t and see if you get any buyers!!!! EBAY 1/1

Could have been a badly faded or bubbling autograph that was wiped off and resigned?
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Old 05-02-2012, 12:42 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by freethrowtommy View Post
Could have been a badly faded or bubbling autograph that was wiped off and resigned?
Thanks! you are the second person that has mentioned this as a possibility (I am beginning to lean towards that as an explanation)
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Old 05-02-2012, 12:44 PM   #14 (permalink)
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idk what tell u guys... its got the stamp... its slabbed by beckett with a 10 auto... if the cards auto was faded no way it gets a 10... its hard to break open a slabbed card resign it and then get it in a 10 again... and if you tried retracing his auto no way its signed that smooth... idk cant say it fake if its got a stamp of approval and slabbed with a 10 auto... this is the reason why this hobby is going down hill...

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Could have been a badly faded or bubbling autograph that was wiped off and resigned?
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Old 05-02-2012, 01:06 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BostonNut View Post
I could sh!t in a box and give it the stamp of approval....
Your point?
That would be hot!
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Old 05-02-2012, 01:37 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by freethrowtommy View Post
Could have been a badly faded or bubbling autograph that was wiped off and resigned?
I'm almost positive they check for wiping and chemicals. I think it would have disqualified the card. I am not an expert and have no opinion on the card however.
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Old 05-02-2012, 01:42 PM   #17 (permalink)
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it sold for $3001!!! nice!!!
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Old 05-02-2012, 03:01 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Beckett.com


this says its real
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Old 05-02-2012, 03:11 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gr5 View Post
Lol, there is PLENTY of ways to prove somthing is fake. Like I said in no way was I trying to attack the OP. Making a thread about a card and questioning it being fake, that's what I'd consider "screaming fake". Also not saying the OP is one, but there are way to many post like this. People who just don't know 100% is somthing is real or fake, then assum it is. It makes the seller look bad for no reason. Hence why it should not be done.

Do you have any imput on the situation with the card?

Greg
I agree alot of people do it and he probably should have worded a bit different but it was not bad. Tell me some of the plenty of ways to prove something is fake. JSA and PSA would like to know because they only give opinions and not proof. I know on some cards there are ways but I would like to hear some more.
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Old 05-02-2012, 04:36 PM   #20 (permalink)
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C'mon, buddy! Seriously? That card is authentic as is the auto. The loop in the M looks legit, but more so is the stamp. It's not like that stamp is one of those easily peeled stickers from the Topps RC Prmr.

I thought you knew his auto already? *smh*

G
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Old 05-02-2012, 05:05 PM   #21 (permalink)
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REAL //endthread
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Old 05-02-2012, 06:02 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Thanks to all for comments and opinions! I do have bad vision, but this is definitely one of the "oddest" looking Peyton signatures I have ever seen...

Literally, the penmanship is shaking (use the mouse to zoom on the signature image) as if someone bumped him while signing the card.

I am just puzzled as to why the signature is drastically different

The "M" is fairly close, indeed.

But the "g" is way off. The loop at the bottom of the "g" is shakey for starters; not to mention, it is bubbly as opposed to a tight and leaning loop. This particular card has the "g" dropping straight downward and bowing around to close the bottom of the loop as opposed to dropping and leaning inwards and tightly closing the bottom of the loop...

Also, Peyton signs his last name with "a n n i n g" starting above the "M" --> For this particular signature, the "a n n i n g" is flush with the middle-top half of the "M"



as for the "PEYTON" portion of the signature:

the signature shows a distinct double-pump in signing the "y" (looks like a "u" followed by a "y")

the signature comes to a complete halt after signing the "y"

the signature restarts at the top of the "t"

the cross-bar on the "t" is about two to three times the length of his signed cross-bar "t"

there is a distinct "o" in his signature (usually 1998 signatures do not show represenation of an "o" or "n") ... when they do, represent the "o n," it appears as a "t" followed by either and upward loop or a "t" followed by a "n" without an "o"

the signature after the "n" flatlines as opposed to hooking down or up
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Old 05-03-2012, 12:46 AM   #23 (permalink)
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Courey, I almost sided with you, but this one looks identical, unless they've both been wiped off...

1998 Peyton Manning #7A Bowmans Best Rookie REFRACTOR AUTO | eBay
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Old 05-03-2012, 01:05 AM   #24 (permalink)
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So many clueless posters about this card and set in this thread. I might start going off like Wolffer has been doing lol.

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Old 05-03-2012, 01:11 AM   #25 (permalink)
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I don't know how many of you were even alive when that set came out, but those who were probably remember the autographs coming out streaked, bubbly, or slightly faded. And that was back in 1998.

An autograph in BOLD BRIGHT BLUE sharpie is NOT correct....
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