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phreak9 10-06-2012 03:48 AM

the hobby progression
 
i started collecting in the late 80's. it started with the complete set of 1989 topps football. i was all about bo jackson like every other 9 year old was. then score and fleer and upper deck popped up and then pro line autos and then upper deck sp, then i took a break. when i returned to the hobby in 2000 everything was serial numbered rookie cards and PSA graded 10 gem's and relic cards. now relic cards are worth nothing without 3 colors or part of the nameplate, reebok logo, or team or nfl emblem on it. then we have exquisite using what some have called 'questionably used' patches on their new product. i mean check out the ponder exquisites that have sold on ebay. exact same part of the nike bottom left tag. almost exact same cut on 3 sold this week? its clearly mapped out and measured and exquisite is picking the flashiest pieces but driving prices down at the same time because of who wore them and when is under question.

-relics pieces-once popular and valuable are not that big of deal
-autographs-now only the /5 or high end rookies are worth getting. and is now progressing to inscription rookies and used nameplate autos and exotic jersey piece autos.
-the products themselves have limited amounts but then each company has 10 different sets of cards so basically the same amount of rookies and autos are still out there just appearing to be limited when they are only limited per set.

im wondering if and for how long values will hold and if somehow even with auto jersey nameplates patches the companies will find a way to think about money first and oversaturate the market with that and everything else. they did it with ever product in the early 90's and they did it with jersey material cards and now autos. you can get a MJD flair showcase auto rookie for $5 and he's one of the top 3 RB in the league!

where does it end and what do you think is next for the hobby?
i hope that what exquisite may or may not have done with the jersey pieces doesnt get out of hand. but i know even besides UD that it at least slightly has.

do you think at some point the players are going to come out and call fowl on the card companies for putting items they never wore on cards? or pointing out that they never even signed some of those cards? ive heard a story about that with a bball player who's friends 'helped him out' with the roll of stickers he had to sign. thats not my story to tell though.

my money on whats next is 'dinner with michael jordan' types of rare inserts. or 'tickets to a game', or 'skype with tom brady' for 5 minutes. and i think inscriptions will be saturated and devalued or 'limited' but each player will have 10 different inscriptions /50. i think the NFL or the NFLPA or WE THE COLLECTORS should put an end to the shotty practices of game worn pieces practices of the companies. remember that photo of mark ingram or whoever at a topps event with 20 jerseys on at once? we should have mutinied then. i hope we mutiny.

anyone has a problem with my rant, complain elsewhere (thats as nicely as i can say it). i know some of you like to act like little nancies about everything. you little nancies are the ones online being spell nazi's too? 'umm you spelled tuberculosis wrong, idiot'.



'the confrontation with god is the confrontation with the unconscious' carl jung

HighEndHits 10-06-2012 08:19 AM

I still think the young kid opening up a pack and getting a jersey card or autograph (regardless of how ordinary or detached it is) still gets a rush. A piece of an NFL jersey or autograph from an NFL player!!! While they might be ordinary now and less rare than they used to be I'm sure that casual collectors still find them pretty cool. It's the people who are trying to invest and flip that despise the amount of them being produced. I also think it's less about the mass amount of them being produced and more about the fact that there has been nothing scarce that has taken their place.

phreak9 10-06-2012 08:58 AM

[QUOTE=HighEndHits;3429746]I still think the young kid opening up a pack and getting a jersey card or autograph (regardless of how ordinary or detached it is) still gets a rush. A piece of an NFL jersey or autograph from an NFL player!!! While they might be ordinary now and less rare than they used to be I'm sure that casual collectors still find them pretty cool. It's the people who are trying to invest and flip that despise the amount of them being produced. I also think it's less about the mass amount of them being produced and more about the fact that there has been nothing scarce that has taken their place.[/QUOTE]

are the jersey pieces as authentic as they were in the late 90's though? many cards have a vague time and place when they were worn. on wikipedia the way they talk about the UD wording change on jersey cards makes you wonder, a lot.

youve got me on the flipping thing but look at late 90's jersey cards of marino and favre and others. some are over $200 in beckett but who's gonna pay that,even if it has a specific game piece/event listed in the back, when a favre (or anybody else post 2005) can be had for $8? that collector with that card who paid all that money for those boxes has something worth nothing. makes it the stock market. dump it before its overplayed and worthless. flip it all. except the vince lombardi cuts auto and the occasional 1/1's and rarities. look at favres cards drop as soon as he's done playing. everything can be had for 50%-75% off 1 year after he's out. then will skyrocket for 2 weeks after he's entered in the HOF. stock market. get it before its hype, flip it before it dies.

also whats a kid gonna think when he pays $5 for a pack of cards and a superstar jersey card and handful of superstar base cards wont even get him his $5 back? i have a hard time justifying buying packs or boxes when its $125 for the box or $200 for the exact card i want. saves time and effort, snipe it and get it over with. saves trees too.

'get it before its hype, flip it before it dies.' phreak9
'the confrontation with god is the confrontation with the unconscious' carl jung

phreak9 10-06-2012 09:01 AM

[QUOTE=HighEndHits;3429746]I still think the young kid opening up a pack and getting a jersey card or autograph (regardless of how ordinary or detached it is) still gets a rush. A piece of an NFL jersey or autograph from an NFL player!!! While they might be ordinary now and less rare than they used to be I'm sure that casual collectors still find them pretty cool. It's the people who are trying to invest and flip that despise the amount of them being produced. I also think it's less about the mass amount of them being produced and more about the fact that there has been nothing scarce that has taken their place.[/QUOTE]


how do they find so many perfectly clean jersey pieces? wheres the blood and dirt?

phreak9 10-06-2012 09:03 AM

[QUOTE=HighEndHits;3429746]I still think the young kid opening up a pack and getting a jersey card or autograph (regardless of how ordinary or detached it is) still gets a rush. A piece of an NFL jersey or autograph from an NFL player!!! While they might be ordinary now and less rare than they used to be I'm sure that casual collectors still find them pretty cool. It's the people who are trying to invest and flip that despise the amount of them being produced. I also think it's less about the mass amount of them being produced and more about the fact that there has been nothing scarce that has taken their place.[/QUOTE]

maybe thats exactly it. nothing scarce has taken their place. whats next after they milk all this other stuff to no value for the buyers?

JChrist1732 10-06-2012 01:38 PM

Did you really just quote yourself from earlier in your post?

briscogun 10-06-2012 03:47 PM

[QUOTE=HighEndHits;3429746][B]I still think the young kid opening up a pack and getting a jersey card or autograph (regardless of how ordinary or detached it is) still gets a rush.[/B] A piece of an NFL jersey or autograph from an NFL player!!! While they might be ordinary now and less rare than they used to be I'm sure that casual collectors still find them pretty cool. It's the people who are trying to invest and flip that despise the amount of them being produced. I also think it's less about the mass amount of them being produced and more about the fact that there has been nothing scarce that has taken their place.[/QUOTE]

I bought 4 packs yesterday to open with my 5 yr old last night. He pulled a Cyrus Gray auto (sticker). He was so excited he ran upstairs (after dad put it in a top loader), showed his mom and then immediately pulled his entire box of cards out to start sorting and comparing. It's his first auto card and he was so jazzed! That is what this is all about.

Listen, at the end of the day, we control this process. Don't like the BS game used, serial numbered, sub-sets, etc.? Then don't buy them. Don't buy boxes, don't buy hits of The Bay, just leave it. The card companies only make what they can earn a profit from. They are not custodians of the hobby or looking to preserve the integrity of anything. They want our money, they will produce as many products as possible to separate us from our money. Panini has 18 football products this year. That's 15 too many. I have purchased one brand and release this year that I felt was going to offer me the best bang for my buck. That's it. I don't like all the stuff I see, but if I buy it, I can't then go and complain about it. "I hate these cards! Why do they make these cards!"

I would rather see one set of on-card autos that comes out at the end of the year then 10 sets of sticker autos that come out early with crappy training camp/rookie premier photos. But if we keep buying sets of crappy jersey/sticker autos, then they will keep making them.

MI Rob 10-06-2012 03:49 PM

[QUOTE=JChrist1732;3430559]Did you really just quote yourself from earlier in your post?[/QUOTE]

Yes he did haha. He also writes a quote on some of his posts that are irrelevant to the conversation. He must have no idea how to edit his signature.

FanboyOfNone 10-06-2012 05:16 PM

I don't see Jordan bothering with a "free dinner redemption" unless it's a six figure charity auction. No way on a sportscard redemption. I definitely don't see Topps convincing Brady to Skype with anyone.

I know your examples may have been a tad extreme, but I just don't see the athletes caring enough about the hobby to elevate their committment any further than it is. I really don't see them wanting to help us out when it comes to quality control on a card either.

We'll have to see something "fresh" and "unique" sooner or later. Anyone's guess on what that could be, but few high caliber athletes would be willing to increase their time commitments to the hobby, IMO. We'd end up getting a slew of "Tebow, motivational speech redemptions" and "TO, I need money, so what's for dinner? You're paying, right?" redemptions. ;)

Lockdown32 10-06-2012 05:31 PM

It's a hobby. If you are in it for money then you are in the wrong business. If a kid is opening a pack he isn't gonna care if he can't make money. He is in it for the fun. The vague wording on jersey cards is just to cover themselves legally. The legal problems for them knowingly using unworn jerseys is much to great for them to risk.

[QUOTE=phreak9;3429789]are the jersey pieces as authentic as they were in the late 90's though? many cards have a vague time and place when they were worn. on wikipedia the way they talk about the UD wording change on jersey cards makes you wonder, a lot.

youve got me on the flipping thing but look at late 90's jersey cards of marino and favre and others. some are over $200 in beckett but who's gonna pay that,even if it has a specific game piece/event listed in the back, when a favre (or anybody else post 2005) can be had for $8? that collector with that card who paid all that money for those boxes has something worth nothing. makes it the stock market. dump it before its overplayed and worthless. flip it all. except the vince lombardi cuts auto and the occasional 1/1's and rarities. look at favres cards drop as soon as he's done playing. everything can be had for 50%-75% off 1 year after he's out. then will skyrocket for 2 weeks after he's entered in the HOF. stock market. get it before its hype, flip it before it dies.

also whats a kid gonna think when he pays $5 for a pack of cards and a superstar jersey card and handful of superstar base cards wont even get him his $5 back? i have a hard time justifying buying packs or boxes when its $125 for the box or $200 for the exact card i want. saves time and effort, snipe it and get it over with. saves trees too.

'get it before its hype, flip it before it dies.' phreak9
'the confrontation with god is the confrontation with the unconscious' carl jung[/QUOTE]

phreak9 10-06-2012 08:29 PM

[QUOTE=MI Rob;3431108]Yes he did haha. He also writes a quote on some of his posts that are irrelevant to the conversation. He must have no idea how to edit his signature.[/QUOTE]

apparently there are actually kids on these forums. yes kid what you said is relevant and useful to the overall topic. please look up what sarcasm means.

phreak9 10-06-2012 08:31 PM

[QUOTE=Lockdown32;3431595]It's a hobby. If you are in it for money then you are in the wrong business. If a kid is opening a pack he isn't gonna care if he can't make money. He is in it for the fun. The vague wording on jersey cards is just to cover themselves legally. The legal problems for them knowingly using unworn jerseys is much to great for them to risk.[/QUOTE]

i see everybody going with the kids care comment. there arent on kids on this entire forum. why are you defaulting to them? what do you honestly think besides the empathy for the kids? that just seems like the quick easy answer

Zacy87 10-06-2012 08:35 PM

You're a terrible writer

smackvay 10-06-2012 09:00 PM

i do have to agree with the overall point of this thread

MI Rob 10-06-2012 09:02 PM

[QUOTE=phreak9;3432422]apparently there are actually kids on these forums. yes kid what you said is relevant and useful to the overall topic. please look up what sarcasm means.[/QUOTE]

So what does sarcasm have to do with the conversation? Where's this sarcasm at? Pretty sad you're older than me and can't correctly type out a complete and logical thought.

'the confrontation with god is the confrontation with the unconscious' carl jung

You failed at using the correct quotation marks, and couldn't correctly use capitalization. But you insist on calling me a kid :)!

ajscards101 10-06-2012 09:43 PM

At first I thought you forgot the carl jung quote but then I saw your signature, A+ for you :)! (but D- if this was an English class)

Honestly you make some good points...I'll try to read it later... :rolleyes:

Ray27Ray52 10-06-2012 09:46 PM

Cocaine is a hell of a drug.

rudyjustinfarrell 10-06-2012 09:47 PM

I thought there was some redemption cards in a basketball product that sent the holder to one of Jordan's Basketball camps? This was maybe 3-4 years ago? I could be mixing up Jordan and Kobe though?

Sportscard Fan 10-06-2012 10:09 PM

[QUOTE=briscogun;3431097]I bought 4 packs yesterday to open with my 5 yr old last night. He pulled a Cyrus Gray auto (sticker). He was so excited he ran upstairs (after dad put it in a top loader), showed his mom and then immediately pulled his entire box of cards out to start sorting and comparing. It's his first auto card and he was so jazzed! That is what this is all about.[/QUOTE]
This is the post of the year because this really is what this is all about.

If your son and all of the 5 year-olds like him continue to get excited about cards, then this hobby has a bright future. But if they don't, the hobby will slowly fade into a forgotten pastime. All of the card companies need to find a way to encourage these young kids to want to collect; whether it's base cards, autos, jerseys, etc. So far, they haven't done a very good job of doing that and I'm afraid it doesn't bode well for the hobby. :(

Kodiak10 10-06-2012 10:29 PM

Basketball will be fine. Baseball, football, hockey could be in trouble. I live in a 700,000 Metropolitan Area and there is one card shop(within 40 miles) that is open a total of about 10 hours a week. He gets new releases about 2 weeks later than everyone else and gets like 1 box of each. The hobby will still be here just smaller. Kids are never going to buy $100 boxes. Card companies are going to have to really get creative on the mid-high stuff. I love the look of Triple Treads, but the days of jersey sticker autos for almost $200 a box
And getting $60 worth of cards is getting old. I know I know, buy singles. The problem is you need people to open the boxes. I'm guessing card companies will get more creative over the 5 years and produce less product than what they make currently, whether it be print runs or other.


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