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Old 10-30-2012, 03:25 PM   #76 (permalink)
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Eli is clutch and has a decent defense. Not Elite. Eli didn't win two Super Bowls the team won two. Especially the defense. The defense was more of a factor of why they won in the SB's then Eli.

And I'd take Brady over ANY QB in the league. But this thread isn't about Brady it is about Eli.

So to answer the question again, Eli is NOT elite.
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Old 10-30-2012, 03:30 PM   #77 (permalink)
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Also everyone using SB Rings as a way of ranking skill level, instead of stats & W-L and other factors, are crazy. What about LeBron? Since he never won a title he isn't elite(Before last season)? Championships are a horrible way to rate a single player's skills. A championship is won by a team, not a single player.
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Old 10-30-2012, 03:48 PM   #78 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by RedSoxFan28 View Post
Also everyone using SB Rings as a way of ranking skill level, instead of stats & W-L and other factors, are crazy. What about LeBron? Since he never won a title he isn't elite(Before last season)? Championships are a horrible way to rate a single player's skills. A championship is won by a team, not a single player.
Lebron threw the Cavs on his back and dragged them to the Finals.

But yeah. He didn't win the ring, so he's not clutch and definitely not elite. An elite basketball player can 1 on 5 his way into Championship wins! Rings!
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Old 10-30-2012, 04:11 PM   #79 (permalink)
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I just learned that football is the only team sport. Kobe also won his rings all by himself. Shaq had nothing to do with Kobe's rings.
Who cares about his rings?

I'm saying basketball has a higher propensity for one man plays. QBs need to connect with a receiver usually, making almost every play a two man job...without counting blockers and receivers drawing attention off the primary option. In the NFL, one guy screwing up on the OL can kill a play, no matter how good the QB is.

I hate Shaq, but yeah, Kobe needed him. Even the great MJ needed support to win games. Lebron needed to get off the god awful Cavs to win a ring, though he did miraculously take the Cavs to the Finals. It's sad that Lebron's elite play will be judged almost solely on his Championship time with the Heat, now that he does have support. He did fantastic on the Cavs with what he had, but that is already forgotten.

Which goes back to my original point. It takes some good support and a balanced team to win Championships, which is why they shouldn't be the primary measure for how great a single player is. Am I wrong?
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Old 10-30-2012, 04:13 PM   #80 (permalink)
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Its amazing to me how little people understand football. That playing conditions factor greatly into success of a QB. That QB style is a major factor. Eli is a great QB who is under-appreciated because of how his brother plays. I'd point out all the factors, but I dont have time. Also, to say Big Ben is better than Eli is insane.
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Old 10-30-2012, 04:16 PM   #81 (permalink)
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Who cares about his rings?

I'm saying basketball has a higher propensity for one man plays. QBs need to connect with a receiver usually, making almost every play a two man job...without counting blockers and receivers drawing attention off the primary option. In the NFL, one guy screwing up on the OL can kill a play, no matter how good the QB is.

I hate Shaq, but yeah, Kobe needed him. Even the great MJ needed support to win games. Lebron needed to get off the god awful Cavs to win a ring, though he did miraculously take the Cavs to the Finals. It's sad that Lebron's elite play will be judged almost solely on his Championship time with the Heat, now that he does have support. He did fantastic on the Cavs with what he had, but that is already forgotten.

Which goes back to my original point. It takes some good support and a balanced team to win Championships, which is why they shouldn't be the primary measure for how great a single player is. Am I wrong?
I'd say no. But to say the Giants could have won those Super Bowls without Eli playing at the level he played at would be insane. He was "other-wordly" great the first super Bowl run, playing flawless. He was hot through out that playoff run. Did the D help? Yes, but mediocre QB play would have not been enough.

The second run was not the defense though. The secondary was porous at best. Luckily for them the Packers were cold and the offense puts points on the board, b/c uif the Pack was in a rhythm, the discussion of "A-Rodgers, greatest of all-time?" would be at full tilt.
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Old 10-30-2012, 04:21 PM   #82 (permalink)
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Its amazing to me how little people understand football. That playing conditions factor greatly into success of a QB. That QB style is a major factor. Eli is a great QB who is under-appreciated because of how his brother plays. I'd point out all the factors, but I dont have time. Also, to say Big Ben is better than Eli is insane.
Eli's great. At times. It just doesn't seem right to say every Giants' win is Eli's doing. He has 0, 1 TD games frequently enough. And his defense has "saved" him frequently enough. When he runs hot, sure, he can get passes almost anywhere. But he does run cold at times...

I will agree Eli beats out Big Ben.

I respect how the whole Giants team can cohere so well at times, but Big Ben has arguably had even more talent surrounding him for almost his entire career.
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Old 10-30-2012, 04:23 PM   #83 (permalink)
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Depends how you define elite I guess. If top 5 is elite, then yes. Who else would you rather have than Eli besides Brady, Rodgers, or Brees? L
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Old 10-30-2012, 04:38 PM   #84 (permalink)
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I'd say no. But to say the Giants could have won those Super Bowls without Eli playing at the level he played at would be insane. He was "other-wordly" great the first super Bowl run, playing flawless. He was hot through out that playoff run. Did the D help? Yes, but mediocre QB play would have not been enough.

The second run was not the defense though. The secondary was porous at best. Luckily for them the Packers were cold and the offense puts points on the board, b/c uif the Pack was in a rhythm, the discussion of "A-Rodgers, greatest of all-time?" would be at full tilt.
I can give him the first SB.

I just too often think about how my team (Cowboys) had two chances to remove them from Playoff contention in the first place, last season. JPP had enough clutch plays to build a mountain in their first matchup, culminating in a blocked potential game tying field goal. Cruz ran at least one short pass the length of the field for a TD...not something a lesser receiver might do so naturally. There was a lot of blowing up on the Giants towards the end of the regular season. And the Cowboys blowing a two possession lead in 5 minutes with our horrible secondary last year.

As for the Playoffs, he was impressive in 2011. The Pack got too complacent I'd say, but hey...any given Sunday. Something like 9 straight completitions for Eli to start the Super Bowl? Yeah, he did well. I don't want to credit the OL too much, but they rarely let him get sacked these days. That's definitely a confidence boost when so many teams today need a complete OL overhaul. Besides, Gronk was playing at 25% due to injury come Super Bowl time. So many intangibles.

As well as he played in 2011...I'm still not sure if he could have done it without Cruz and Nicks showing up to play. I'm not sure if he could've done it without the secondary also stepping up, with Tuck/JPP becoming a ridiculous pass rushing duo.

But in the end, last year was obviously great for him. Somehow I'm still not convinced he can keep it up though. Guess we'll have to see if the Giants have another ring in them.
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Old 11-04-2012, 07:27 PM   #85 (permalink)
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Another spectacular performance by Eli.
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Old 11-04-2012, 07:44 PM   #86 (permalink)
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It's easy for me to be biased because he's on my fantasy team but seriously...look at his last four weeks:

66/121, three games of fewer than 200 passing yards and a TD-INT ratio of 2-4.

They're even referring to Eli as a "low-end No. 1, high-end No. 2" QB now in fantasy

He can't put the team on his back and carry them like an Aaron Rodgers or Drew Brees.
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Old 11-04-2012, 07:57 PM   #87 (permalink)
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Eli has a knack for making big plays, especially in crunch time/big games. However he has very bad and lenghty streaks, typically in the middle of the season, in which hes inaccurate and makes poor decisions. Tonight, he was awful. There were guys open all over n he missed badly. He is in one of those "bad" streaks now. Hopefully he gets out and goes on ahot streak sooner then later..
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