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Old 11-15-2012, 08:29 PM   #26 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by SacGWYNN19 View Post
LOL. You've historically had some pretty uneducated posts but this one might be the winner.

Do some research.

Retiree health benefits are the key reason they lose money. Nice business model.

Edit - And please don't respond until you've actually read the 10K.

you don't understand the way it operates.... it's like saying social security is broke... there is NO SUCH THING....... it's money manipulation on the part of the government...... the post office was operating at a surplus, so they created a way to snag the money from it and appropriate it to other things within the government.

if you put the post offices budget from day 1 of this year, to the last day of this year on paper...... it made more money than it's budget, gauranteed. it just had to pay the government all the money for some flim flam program, so it makes it look like it's broke, when it's really not, it operates at a profit every single year, even with retiree benefits.

just because you don't understand things doesn't make me uneducated, look it up, I gaurantee you everything I said is 100% correct........ RESEARCH IT!
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Old 11-15-2012, 08:32 PM   #27 (permalink)
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Do you happen to know a purpose behind this? The process sounds absolutely out of left field...
the purpose of it, was to steal away the post offices money since it was operating at a surplus and use that money for other things, give the government budget a boost, since it was a government step child anyway. money manipulation... it happens all through the government, treasury & economy, that's why it's pointless to worry about debt, we OWE OURSELVES...... and not only do we owe ourselves, but we bet against our on futures on owing ourselves the money back, we are in on both sides, there is NO WIN.
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Old 11-15-2012, 08:50 PM   #28 (permalink)
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the purpose of it, was to steal away the post offices money since it was operating at a surplus and use that money for other things, give the government budget a boost, since it was a government step child anyway. money manipulation... it happens all through the government, treasury & economy, that's why it's pointless to worry about debt, we OWE OURSELVES...... and not only do we owe ourselves, but we bet against our on futures on owing ourselves the money back, we are in on both sides, there is NO WIN.

If you aren't Doomsday Prepping right now, you'll be sorry.
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Old 11-15-2012, 08:53 PM   #29 (permalink)
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Tommy is right.

any "business" that had to do what the PO is being told to do would go under in a heartbeat.
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Old 11-15-2012, 09:08 PM   #30 (permalink)
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If you aren't Doomsday Prepping right now, you'll be sorry.
no need to doomsday prep, we are doing better than ever..... all the gloom & doom is for suckers. the money manip is to our advantage.
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Old 11-15-2012, 09:10 PM   #31 (permalink)
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no need to doomsday prep, we are doing better than ever..... all the gloom & doom is for suckers. the money manip is to our advantage.
he's... right.



i need to go see if i have a fever!
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Old 11-15-2012, 09:10 PM   #32 (permalink)
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Tommy is right.

any "business" that had to do what the PO is being told to do would go under in a heartbeat.
the post office can't go under....... it's backed by the federal government. that's why it's operated like that. it can't fail, just like GM and all the other big companies in america.
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Old 11-15-2012, 09:12 PM   #33 (permalink)
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Tommy is right.

any "business" that had to do what the PO is being told to do would go under in a heartbeat.
It's the government, they get away with this regularly. Hence why it's propped up instead of allowed to fail.

There's a distinctive difference between bankruptcy and insolvency.

All of the entitlement programs are insolvent (i.e, they manage to stay in the black due to non-disgretionary spending that is allocated to HHS every year), they're broken because the liabilities will outstrip the funding quite soon (as soon as 2019 for Social Security according to the Chief Actuary of the SS fund).
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Old 11-15-2012, 09:30 PM   #34 (permalink)
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It's the government, they get away with this regularly. Hence why it's propped up instead of allowed to fail.

There's a distinctive difference between bankruptcy and insolvency.

All of the entitlement programs are insolvent (i.e, they manage to stay in the black due to non-disgretionary spending that is allocated to HHS every year), they're broken because the liabilities will outstrip the funding quite soon (as soon as 2019 for Social Security according to the Chief Actuary of the SS fund).
It isn't being propped up at all. It is being asked to do something that no other company in America is being asked to do. That is why it is losing money.

This was caused 5 years ago by poison pill legislation requiring the Post Office to fully fund the retiree health benefits of FUTURE employees (yes, including those who may not even be born yet, no exaggeration, they were required to fund 75 years worth in a 10 year period). This costs the Post Office $5.5 Billion per year, no other business has been required to do this. In 2007 it lost $5.1 billion. In 2008 it lost $2.8 billion. And in 2009 it lost $3.8 billion. But if you subtract the $5.5 billion annual poison pill requirement to prefund health benefits the Post Office would have been profitable each of those years .
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Old 11-15-2012, 09:34 PM   #35 (permalink)
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It isn't being propped up at all. It is being asked to do something that no other company in America is being asked to do. That is why it is losing money.

This was caused 5 years ago by poison pill legislation requiring the Post Office to fully fund the retiree health benefits of FUTURE employees (yes, including those who may not even be born yet, no exaggeration, they were required to fund 75 years worth in a 10 year period). This costs the Post Office $5.5 Billion per year, no other business has been required to do this. In 2007 it lost $5.1 billion. In 2008 it lost $2.8 billion. And in 2009 it lost $3.8 billion. But if you subtract the $5.5 billion annual poison pill requirement to prefund health benefits the Post Office would have been profitable each of those years .
Okay, that is pretty much the same way all the other entities in government are run. The government can run at a loss and do just fine (on the books), it's not their money. Following your premise, no entities run like the government in the private sector would be open, their owners would be in federal prison for theft and horrid bookkeeping.

And we wonder why we have almost $16.3 trillion in Debt.
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Old 11-15-2012, 09:38 PM   #36 (permalink)
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Okay, that is pretty much the same way all the other entities in government are run.

And we wonder why we have almost $16.3 trillion in Debt.
What other government agency is required to fund 75 years of pensions and health insurance?
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Old 11-15-2012, 09:38 PM   #37 (permalink)
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It isn't being propped up at all. It is being asked to do something that no other company in America is being asked to do. That is why it is losing money.
it hasn't failed yet man, that's why it isn't being propped up, the minute the screen reads "POST OFFICE FAILS" it will be propped up, you should study economics and the government a little more sir.... you don't have a good concept of whats being done.
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Old 11-15-2012, 09:45 PM   #38 (permalink)
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What other government agency is required to fund 75 years of pensions and health insurance?
they are shifting the money from left to right and putting this purpose on it...... that's the part you are missing. it's money manipulation within the same entity. it's basically saying, the government will take all this money now from the post office, work people to the bone, make it fail, then prop it up, so that they get the absolute most out of the workers. they are crunching the biz on purpose because it was operating at a surplus and they knew they could do it. they want the atmosphere it provides of cutting/working harder etc within the post office because it makes them more money in the long run to operate this way. many business' operate this way in america, they just use credit they never pay instead of the federal government.
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Old 11-15-2012, 09:45 PM   #39 (permalink)
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Okay, that is pretty much the same way all the other entities in government are run. The government ca run at a loss and do just fun, it's not their money. Following your premise, no entities run like the government in the private sector would be open, their owners would be in federal prison for theft and horrid bookkeeping.

And we wonder why we have almost $16.3 trillion in Debt.
Postal worker strikes prompted President Nixon to pass the Postal Reorganization Act in 1971, transforming it into the semi-independent agency we now know as the United States Postal Service. The USPS in its current form runs like a business, relies on postage for revenue and, for the most part, has not used taxpayer money since 1982, when postage stamps became “products” instead of forms of taxation. Taxpayer money is only used in some cases to pay for mailing voter materials to disabled and overseas Americans.

Congress basically decided to #@#@#@#@ with what was working perfectly fine in order to push USPS out of service.
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Old 11-15-2012, 09:48 PM   #40 (permalink)
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Congress basically decided to #@#@#@#@ with what was working perfectly fine in order to push USPS out of service.

Exactly, accept it's not going out of service...... never will. things may change around, but it will be here....... it's not going anywhere, and never was.
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Old 11-15-2012, 09:51 PM   #41 (permalink)
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Exactly, accept it's not going out of service...... never will. things may change around, but it will be here....... it's not going anywhere, and never was.
I know it isn't. But I am sick and tired of the bull #@#@#@#@ that is saying the post office is failing. It isn't failing. It isn't even doing poorly. It is simply being asked to do something beyond what it was intended to do.

It is all one big accounting trick.
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Old 11-15-2012, 09:51 PM   #42 (permalink)
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Well when postmaster generals make 6 figures and retired mailmen have outrageous pensions this is what happens.
Anyone with a job title with "Master General" in it should make 6 figures. Throw "Chief" in front of the title and it bumps up to 250K.
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Old 11-15-2012, 09:52 PM   #43 (permalink)
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Anyone with a job title with "Master General" in it should make 6 figures. Throw "Chief" in front of the title and it bumps up to 250K.
What if you throw "Chief" after "Master"? Do I get to be in Halo 5?
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Old 11-15-2012, 09:53 PM   #44 (permalink)
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I know it isn't. But I am sick and tired of the bull #@#@#@#@ that is saying the post office is failing. It isn't failing. It isn't even doing poorly. It is simply being asked to do something beyond what it was intended to do.

It is all one big accounting trick.
the entire world economy is one big accounting trick....... wallstreet makes sure of that...........
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Old 11-15-2012, 09:55 PM   #45 (permalink)
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What other government agency is required to fund 75 years of pensions and health insurance?
They're not propping themselves up, who do they get paid from? Us.

They get to pay more out of an overinflated, government provided salary with still lofty pensions that are now backed with more of their own money. You won't see me crying any tears over that. The "losses" are a balance sheet maneuver.

You're correct though, any business in the private sector with this model wouldn't survive, hence why it needs to be denuded and reborn as a much more efficient model. Stringing along this failure only delays the natural economic correction.
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Old 11-15-2012, 09:56 PM   #46 (permalink)
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Postal worker strikes prompted President Nixon to pass the Postal Reorganization Act in 1971, transforming it into the semi-independent agency we now know as the United States Postal Service. The USPS in its current form runs like a business, relies on postage for revenue and, for the most part, has not used taxpayer money since 1982, when postage stamps became “products” instead of forms of taxation. Taxpayer money is only used in some cases to pay for mailing voter materials to disabled and overseas Americans.

Congress basically decided to #@#@#@#@ with what was working perfectly fine in order to push USPS out of service.
Hey, Congress has that kind of authority over Healthcare now. Get excited!
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Old 11-15-2012, 10:01 PM   #47 (permalink)
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They're not propping themselves up, who do they get paid from? Us.

They get to pay more out of an overinflated, government provided salary with still lofty pensions that are now backed with more of their own money. You won't see me crying any tears over that. The "losses" are a balance sheet maneuver.

You're correct though, any business in the private sector with this model wouldn't survive, hence why it needs to be denuded and reborn as a much more efficient model. Stringing along this failure only delays the natural economic correction.
How about they just take away the requirement to fund pensions and healthcare for 75 years in advance?

Holy #@#@#@#@, problem solved! They don't need to be denuded and reborn. They need to be put back on a level playing field with everyone else.
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Old 11-15-2012, 10:04 PM   #48 (permalink)
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How about they just take away the requirement to fund pensions and healthcare for 75 years in advance?

Holy #@#@#@#@, problem solved!
You obviously do not know how the government works. If it makes sense then it will not happen.
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Old 11-15-2012, 10:07 PM   #49 (permalink)
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You obviously do not know how the government works. If it makes sense then it will not happen.
I like to call it cautious optimism.
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Old 11-16-2012, 09:16 AM   #50 (permalink)
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freethrowtommy:

I don't understand the whole "75 years' worth of pensions" argument. I guess I agree with you that no business would survive having to do that and that is why no businesses do it.

Many businesses today don't even offer pensions and those that did offer really sweet pension plans in the past, like the auto industry, are failing. Having worked at 2 different Fortune 500 companies, I can tell you that 1 had a pension plan that amounted to around $5000/year when you retired, so it was basically so small as to not even be called a pension, and the other didn't offer one at all.

Maybe the reason the PO has been asked to allocate more funds to their pension plan is because it has to in order to support the ridiculously cushy pensions it is promising current and future workers?

Look at it from the employee's side, you are hired and told, "If you work here 30 years, you'll earn $XX,XXX per year in retirement." Don't you think that promise should be kept and isn't the only way to make sure it's kept to fund the account ahead of time to support it?
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