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Old 11-16-2012, 10:32 AM   #51 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by blevins26 View Post
freethrowtommy:

I don't understand the whole "75 years' worth of pensions" argument. I guess I agree with you that no business would survive having to do that and that is why no businesses do it.

Many businesses today don't even offer pensions and those that did offer really sweet pension plans in the past, like the auto industry, are failing. Having worked at 2 different Fortune 500 companies, I can tell you that 1 had a pension plan that amounted to around $5000/year when you retired, so it was basically so small as to not even be called a pension, and the other didn't offer one at all.

Maybe the reason the PO has been asked to allocate more funds to their pension plan is because it has to in order to support the ridiculously cushy pensions it is promising current and future workers?

Look at it from the employee's side, you are hired and told, "If you work here 30 years, you'll earn $XX,XXX per year in retirement." Don't you think that promise should be kept and isn't the only way to make sure it's kept to fund the account ahead of time to support it?
It isn't an argument, that is the law. It was passed by Congress. There is nothing to argue, it is a fact that it is in place and that is exactly what the law is doing. Congress basically screwed another government entity over and the only reason I can think of as to why is because certain people want to see it privatized. We can get into the whole political argument but this isn't the place for that.

I am not going to argue for or against what the Post Office has for retirement benefits because that is what they offer. If you can fund the plan based on the money you are already taking in, why do you need to raise more money to fund it for people who aren't even working yet? Right now, that fund has enough money for over 20 years into the future based on what has already been paid into it.

The argument being passed off in this thread is that the Post Office is losing money. That is blatantly false. The money it is behind in paying is basically to itself for future retirements. It has/had no problem paying for people who are retiring now and receiving those benefits currently. So what is the problem? It isn't losing money in the same sense that a private company loses money.

You can argue that the benefits go above and beyond what others offer, and I can't argue against that. My main point, is they are not being judged on a level playing field and it isn't fair.
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Old 11-16-2012, 11:04 AM   #52 (permalink)
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I just looked through their 10-K as well. It looks to me that their true loss is about $4.6 billion when you exclude the $11.1 billion of Postal Service Retiree Health Benefit Fund expense. In 2011 they had $0 PSRHBF expense and had a loss of $4.9 billion. Unless I'm missing something, and I could since I didn't have much time to look through the 10-K, it would seem as though they are losing a fair amount of money. Total mail volume is trending down as expected but it's alarmingly down 5% from last year which is a bad sign considering they would have had a bump towards the end of the year due to political mailings starting up.

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Old 11-16-2012, 11:11 AM   #53 (permalink)
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The only reason the postal service is in trouble is due to the outrageous retirement payments up front they have to make. They are the only bussiness that has to make payments up front. They have lost alot of small mail items due to the internet . So all those letters or cards they would get are gone . Now i do think some of that is covered with the sports card bussiness adding more Via ebay etc.
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Old 11-16-2012, 04:39 PM   #54 (permalink)
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I asked my postmaster a few years ago how a monopoly like the USPS can have financial troubles and then added shouldn't there be more business due to the increase in online sales over the past 10 or so years.

She said they're getting killed on regular letters. The $.45 stamped envelopes are a high profit margin according to her and with so much less mail going out like that, it's killing them. I would have thought me paying $7.50 to ship across country what used to cost $3.20 would help them, but according to her, it does not.
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Old 11-16-2012, 05:00 PM   #55 (permalink)
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postal workers are borderline zombies, it's completely useless to ask them anything about finances, I have "NEVER" seen one that could operate in real life outside of spitting out robotic transcripts about "Fragile Liquid Or Parishable"


the less they sell, the less work they have to do, the less workers they need...... it's not that hard..... them selling less stamps is not going to effect em like that, they just would have less work to do. and not hire as many people/use them for as many hours. the business model is flexible.....you can adjust as needed for work.
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Old 11-16-2012, 05:20 PM   #56 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by blevins26
This is true. The reason the post office constantly loses money is because their retirement benefits are ridiculously cushy, most (not all) of their employees are stereotypical unmotivated government employees who can't be fired, and they have no profit motive as a "company" because they are a government agency.

That's why public companies like FedEx and UPS are stealing market share--those companies HAVE TO make money to survive. The Post Office just asks for more money from the government, which in turn asks for more money from tax payers. Thanks a lot Obama!
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Old 11-16-2012, 05:28 PM   #57 (permalink)
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Thank you freethrowtommy. I appreciate someone bringing some actual educated truth to the conversation.
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Old 11-16-2012, 05:40 PM   #58 (permalink)
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Thank you freethrowtommy. I appreciate someone bringing some actual educated truth to the conversation.
But I think that outside those forced payments they have to make they are still posting a loss. It's roughly $2.5 billion in 2012 which is outlined on page 23 of their Form 10-K. They even go on to say that their biggest revenue earners, First Class Mail and Standard Mail have seen decreases of roughly 4% each while their operating costs are increased. FreeThrowTommy is correct in that the USPS is not losing anywhere near the amount of money that is being covered in the press, but I don't know if you can flat out say they are making money when you leave out those two big uncontrollable expenses out.

Here is a link to their Form 10-K for anyone who may be curious to read it.
http://about.usps.com/who-we-are/fin...rts/fy2012.pdf

I also just noticed that their main source of cash is through issuing note payables, without those they would be losing billions in cash a year as well. They have a pretty large current payable coming up this year at $9.5 billion. The fact that they are not generating cash outside of taking on more and more debt a year is also a bit alarming I would tend to think.

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Old 11-17-2012, 01:04 AM   #59 (permalink)
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WOW...i work for the Post Office gentlemen, and have for six years. Lets shed some light on some seriously WAY off comments here. First:

The USPS was mandated by the Gov to pay $80 billion into a future and current retirement. Freethrow is the only person in here who seems to understand this.

We don't get money from the gov for ANYTHING. All of our wages are paid from you the customer.

Our "Cushy" retirement is only available after 30 years on the job. They take our highest average of three years and then doc the hell out of it. The average retirement is around $1100 a month. Very CUSHY indeed.

We have been forced by the GOV to overpay $80 freaking BILLION dollars. And the GOV WILL NOT GIVE IT BACK. So the Post Master general does the only thing he can do. report losses, and hope that by shutting down PO around the world and killing jobs that Uncle Sam will give back the money that is rightfuly ours. How exactly do some of you numb skulls even think this is OUR fault? Is the Post Master General over paid? He makes just over a million a year compared to the FedEx guy (8.3 Mil) and UPS (9.4Mil)...so no he is not.

If you don't like the post office, or are waiting for 30 minutes in line apparently, go somewhere else to ship the cards. I bet you find that we are rediculously cheap compared to the next guy.

Sure some people are lazy and cannot do their job, or refuse to do so with any motivation or speed, but show me any corporation where they don't have these employees.

Finally, just get over it. If you want the PO to fail, becareful what you wish for. Imagine the outrage on these boards when you have to pay $7 to ship a card compared to the ludicrous price of $2.00
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Old 11-17-2012, 08:45 AM   #60 (permalink)
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Seriously?

The Postal Service is in trouble because of a Bush-era law that requires the Postal Service to massively pre-fund the cost of retiree health benefits over the next 75 years in just 10 years' time. This cost covers not only current employees, but employees who have yet to be hired and is on top of the cost for health benefits for current retirees. No other company or agency in America is required to pre-fund future retiree health benefits. The Postal Service Retiree Health Benefit Fund already has more than $42 billion in it more than enough to cover retiree health premiums for the next 20 years.

The amount of stupid #@#@#@#@ being spread in this thread is mind boggling.
Still blaming Bush why not Reagan. You have to be a democrat all the way.
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Old 11-17-2012, 09:18 AM   #61 (permalink)
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WOW...i work for the Post Office gentlemen, and have for six years. Lets shed some light on some seriously WAY off comments here. First:

The USPS was mandated by the Gov to pay $80 billion into a future and current retirement. Freethrow is the only person in here who seems to understand this.

We don't get money from the gov for ANYTHING. All of our wages are paid from you the customer.

Our "Cushy" retirement is only available after 30 years on the job. They take our highest average of three years and then doc the hell out of it. The average retirement is around $1100 a month. Very CUSHY indeed.

We have been forced by the GOV to overpay $80 freaking BILLION dollars. And the GOV WILL NOT GIVE IT BACK. So the Post Master general does the only thing he can do. report losses, and hope that by shutting down PO around the world and killing jobs that Uncle Sam will give back the money that is rightfuly ours. How exactly do some of you numb skulls even think this is OUR fault? Is the Post Master General over paid? He makes just over a million a year compared to the FedEx guy (8.3 Mil) and UPS (9.4Mil)...so no he is not.

If you don't like the post office, or are waiting for 30 minutes in line apparently, go somewhere else to ship the cards. I bet you find that we are rediculously cheap compared to the next guy.

Sure some people are lazy and cannot do their job, or refuse to do so with any motivation or speed, but show me any corporation where they don't have these employees.

Finally, just get over it. If you want the PO to fail, becareful what you wish for. Imagine the outrage on these boards when you have to pay $7 to ship a card compared to the ludicrous price of $2.00


the government won't give the post office back the money because it doesn't currently need it, it's waiting on the post office to fail then it will prop it up. you don't even know what your talking about man, the post office operates off credit based on the government how you think you get your check? if the post office operates at a loss, yet you still get paid, your on credit, OBVIOUSLY!!! you are a lower level employee who doesn't understand what your talking about, you know "POST OFFICE" you don't know "GOVERNMENT". this is a "GOVERNMENT" issue/situation not a "POST OFFICE" situation. the fund given to the government is credit for pensions etc. why would they give it back if you haven't failed yet? it's being invested/borrowed against the future of the post office, this is done in many business'........ it's like free money in the stock market. you invest the money in a business you won't allow to fail and it's a win win, it's MONEY MANIPULATION.........just like GM, they invested in it, let it fail, then propped it back up to greatness, get all the money back and keep it moving..... it's a money trick.... the post office is never going anywhere. all that talk about other services and higher payments on shipping is useless, it will never happen. it's a false threat, just like the fiscal cliff.



try reading every once in a while

The Senate passed a postal bill in April that would have provided financial relief in part by reducing the annual health payments and providing a multibillion-dollar cash infusion, basically a refund of overpayments the Postal Service made to a federal pension fund. The House, however, remains stalled over its own legislation that would allow for aggressive cuts, including an immediate end to Saturday delivery.

It remained unclear whether House leadership would take up the postal bill in its current lame-duck session. Rural lawmakers are resisting action, worried about closures of postal facilities in their communities. Congress is focused now on a Jan. 1 deadline to avert across-the-board tax increases and spending cuts known as the "fiscal cliff."



http://www.csmonitor.com/Business/La...efits-to-blame.


and here is the bill

http://www.apwu.org/news/webart/2012...ext-120426.pdf
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Old 11-17-2012, 10:08 AM   #62 (permalink)
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Still blaming Bush why not Reagan. You have to be a democrat all the way.
LOL!

Bush signed the law. Of course he gets the blame (or credit, depending on perspective) for it. That isn't a democrat or republican bias... that is a damn fact. Both democrats and republicans voted for the law in Congress but he signed off on it. That is how it works. Just like 20 years from now, the health bill will still be called Obamacare. The guy who signed it gets his name attached.
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Old 11-17-2012, 10:12 AM   #63 (permalink)
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LOL!

Bush signed the law. Of course he gets the blame for it. That isn't a democrat or republican bias... that is a damn fact. Both democrats and republicans voted for the law in Senate but he signed off on it. That is how it works. Just like 20 years from now, the health bill will still be called Obamacare. The guy who signed it gets his name attached.
what that's actually negative has happened to the post office though? just alot of talk and speculation...... nothing is really happening.... closing some down would happen anyway with digital mailing on the rise.
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Old 11-17-2012, 10:14 AM   #64 (permalink)
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The Senate passed a postal bill in April that would have provided financial relief in part by reducing the annual health payments and providing a multibillion-dollar cash infusion, basically a refund of overpayments the Postal Service made to a federal pension fund.
Maybe you should read the thing you quoted.

The government isn't propping them up. They are giving them their own money back.
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Old 11-17-2012, 10:17 AM   #65 (permalink)
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what that's actually negative has happened to the post office though? just alot of talk and speculation...... nothing is really happening.... closing some down would happen anyway with digital mailing on the rise.
??

I was explaining why it is a Bush law. Nothing more, nothing less.
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Old 11-17-2012, 10:57 AM   #66 (permalink)
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Maybe you should read the thing you quoted.

The government isn't propping them up. They are giving them their own money back.

that is "EXACTLY" what I said...... and in the event that they failed they would prop them up also....... no matter which way you want to call it, the government is just manipulating the books for the post office, they will give them the money right back if needed "AND MORE" if it comes to the point it was going to fail. talking about it over & over, gloom & doom is pointless, it's not going anywhere.

your quoting the quote that I made and telling me my own quote is wrong? Im the one who posted the quote...... HELLO......

the money the post office paid, doesn't actually exist...... there is no "OWN MONEY" to give back...... the government allocated it, spent/invested it, and will pay it as needed. clearly they are hand in hand with the post office, why else would they be holding the pension money in the first place? you think they were just going to take it, and never pay it to anyone? lol........

your talking negatively about bush, but he was the POTUS, and the government runs the agency, so you are basically talking about the post office when you talk about bush, they run it.
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Old 11-17-2012, 01:20 PM   #67 (permalink)
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I love it! Post of the day! This guy is right on...I also work for the Post Office as a carrier and I can honestly say that most of the people who cry and complain couldn't handle more than 2 days on my job! You should all be thankful we have the postal system we do!


Quote:
Originally Posted by ntgm37 View Post
WOW...i work for the Post Office gentlemen, and have for six years. Lets shed some light on some seriously WAY off comments here. First:

The USPS was mandated by the Gov to pay $80 billion into a future and current retirement. Freethrow is the only person in here who seems to understand this.

We don't get money from the gov for ANYTHING. All of our wages are paid from you the customer.

Our "Cushy" retirement is only available after 30 years on the job. They take our highest average of three years and then doc the hell out of it. The average retirement is around $1100 a month. Very CUSHY indeed.

We have been forced by the GOV to overpay $80 freaking BILLION dollars. And the GOV WILL NOT GIVE IT BACK. So the Post Master general does the only thing he can do. report losses, and hope that by shutting down PO around the world and killing jobs that Uncle Sam will give back the money that is rightfuly ours. How exactly do some of you numb skulls even think this is OUR fault? Is the Post Master General over paid? He makes just over a million a year compared to the FedEx guy (8.3 Mil) and UPS (9.4Mil)...so no he is not.

If you don't like the post office, or are waiting for 30 minutes in line apparently, go somewhere else to ship the cards. I bet you find that we are rediculously cheap compared to the next guy.

Sure some people are lazy and cannot do their job, or refuse to do so with any motivation or speed, but show me any corporation where they don't have these employees.

Finally, just get over it. If you want the PO to fail, becareful what you wish for. Imagine the outrage on these boards when you have to pay $7 to ship a card compared to the ludicrous price of $2.00
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Old 11-17-2012, 01:26 PM   #68 (permalink)
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Thank you freethrowtommy. I appreciate someone bringing some actual educated truth to the conversation.
Its a lot easier for ignorant and irrational people to argue when they dont have to use facts.

+1 for freethrowtommy and ntg37 for being the only people in here who know what they are talking about
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Old 11-17-2012, 01:30 PM   #69 (permalink)
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Its a lot easier for ignorant and irrational people to argue when they dont have to use facts.

+1 for freethrowtommy and ntg37 for being the only people in here who know what they are talking about
I like to MOVE IT MOVE IT...............
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Old 11-17-2012, 02:22 PM   #70 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by fitch123 View Post
Its a lot easier for ignorant and irrational people to argue when they dont have to use facts.

+1 for freethrowtommy and ntg37 for being the only people in here who know what they are talking about
Amen...This is why it's difficult to have a rational discussion/debate on here. Because there are so many people who THINK they know everything about a subject, when really they are just pure spouting out of their a**.

It is refreshing to see people like freethrowtommy and ntg37 who ACTUALLY have some factual basis to what they are saying, and not just emotion/conjecture/conspiracy.
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Old 11-17-2012, 02:31 PM   #71 (permalink)
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So why are they going to raise the postage cost?
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Old 11-17-2012, 02:54 PM   #72 (permalink)
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Amen...This is why it's difficult to have a rational discussion/debate on here. Because there are so many people who THINK they know everything about a subject, when really they are just pure spouting out of their a**.

It is refreshing to see people like freethrowtommy and ntg37 who ACTUALLY have some factual basis to what they are saying, and not just emotion/conjecture/conspiracy.

I like to MOVE IT MOVE IT
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