Blowout Cards Forums
Summer Sale

Go Back   Blowout Cards Forums > BLOWOUTS HOBBY TALK > FOOTBALL

FOOTBALL Post your FOOTBALL Cards Hobby Talk

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 12-04-2012, 09:03 AM   #1 (permalink)
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Central New Jersey
Posts: 2,403
Default 6 Sets Coming Out, How Much is Too Much

3 new Panini and 3 new Topps NFL products coming out this month with more coming later. They all have patch auto RCs in them. Is anybody sick of all these yet? Is anyone else concerned about how much these 2 companies are diluting the market?

I just recently got back into collecting, has there always been this many sets?

What sets will hold their value?
danimal875 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2012, 09:08 AM   #2 (permalink)
Temporarily Suspended
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Austin, Texas
Posts: 34,770
Default

I like football cards- so not enough.
__________________
collecting Foles, Garoppolo and Mitchell
ManInTheMirror is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2012, 10:19 AM   #3 (permalink)
Member
 
trixstar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Seattle
Posts: 8,059
Default

They just seem to rehash the same cards every so many years. I just got back into collecting last year and this year when I saw that game film card from Panini I thought hmm that's kind of cool and new...until I saw the same cards on Ebay from 4 years ago. I mean at least come up with some new ideas and if you can't then stop pushing 15 products a year.
__________________
Follow me on twitter @bigtrix36
I PC Da Bears, Seahawks, Mariners, Pirates
http://sportscardalbum.com/u/trixstar
trixstar is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2012, 11:01 AM   #4 (permalink)
Member
 
Texans81's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 5,514
Send a message via MSN to Texans81 Send a message via Yahoo to Texans81
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by trixstar View Post
They just seem to rehash the same cards every so many years. I just got back into collecting last year and this year when I saw that game film card from Panini I thought hmm that's kind of cool and new...until I saw the same cards on Ebay from 4 years ago. I mean at least come up with some new ideas and if you can't then stop pushing 15 products a year.
its not always a good idea to try and come up with brand new stuff every year. its the old saying "if it ain't broke, don't fix it." There are some things they come out with and find that the collectors really like them...so why not continue to produce them each year if that's the case?

one thing i've seen though is that sometimes a design will kind of 'jump' from one product to another which I can't quite say I understand...

great example...

2011 Rookies and Stars


2012 Prominence


*scratches head*

I mean I like the design so I'm glad its out again this year, but why the product jump? They are still making R&S this year...I dunno.

At any rate, I'm collecting all of the pro uniform auto cards of DeVier Posey this year. I love that there are so many of them!

I try to think back to being a player collector in like the 80's when your player might have half a dozen cards the whole year. No thanks...
__________________
Texans81's comic book giveaways thread: http://www.blowoutcards.com/forums/comicbookjunkie/674983-texans81s-comic-giveaways.html#post6788137
Texans81 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2012, 11:40 AM   #5 (permalink)
Member
 
newton615's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: boston
Posts: 3,340
Default

Imo SPA, Exquisite, and NT are the only RPA's that you need. They definitely keep value better than any of the 1 year only products
__________________
In Bill We Trust
newton615 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2012, 11:44 AM   #6 (permalink)
Member
 
TheHelmutt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Twin Lakes, WI
Posts: 2,731
Default

Topps Chrome, Five Star, UD Exquisite, SPA, NT and Contenders would be enough for me.
__________________
Always looking for ANYTHING Aaron Rodgers!!! (especially oddball items)
iCollect: Packers Rookie Autos, Clay Matthews, Randall Cobb, Jordy Nelson and Reggie White
EL BUCKETO: http://www.photobucket.com/helmuttcards
TheHelmutt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2012, 11:46 AM   #7 (permalink)
Member
 
Tarheelsfan2012's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 1,607
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Texans81 View Post
its not always a good idea to try and come up with brand new stuff every year. its the old saying "if it ain't broke, don't fix it." There are some things they come out with and find that the collectors really like them...so why not continue to produce them each year if that's the case?

one thing i've seen though is that sometimes a design will kind of 'jump' from one product to another which I can't quite say I understand...

great example...

2011 Rookies and Stars


2012 Prominence


*scratches head*

I mean I like the design so I'm glad its out again this year, but why the product jump? They are still making R&S this year...I dunno.

At any rate, I'm collecting all of the pro uniform auto cards of DeVier Posey this year. I love that there are so many of them!

I try to think back to being a player collector in like the 80's when your player might have half a dozen cards the whole year. No thanks...
They did that to help sell Prominence. They took the main rookie cards from each brand and combined them into Prominence. Why the need I have no idea. Should have left each with their regular brand.
__________________
If you ask for a price actually answer back
-6 non 1/1's from having 100% for my Bruce Carter PC
Heres my SCA with stuff FT or FS
http://sportscardalbum.com/u/jdetter23
Tarheelsfan2012 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2012, 12:27 PM   #8 (permalink)
Member
 
GOWIFB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,777
Default

Definately have concerns with how much product is being put out by these companies. One of the main problems you have with them is the fact that they have to pay off these HUGE licensing agreements with the pro sports league. The leagues gouge the card companies as much as they can absorb. But of course, that is then passed on to the consumer. In order to get that money back and make a profit they have to pump out probably 2x as much product as they should be making. Then they start loading every product with rookies whose signatures dont cost much. In baseball they have started to load products with USA cards which is more of a scam as they dont even have to pay the players since they are amatuers (although I am sure they have to pay a fee to USA baseball which is still less than if they had to pay individual players). In addition, they also pump these sets full of fake jersey/patch cards because they are 'event' used and not game used. I think there is some picture out there from a saint, possibly ingram, showing him wearing like 17 jerseys at once at the rookie premier photo shoot. Sure the cards can still look cool with the patches and so forth, but I still feel it takes away from the card that they are not using game used memorabilia. Obviously if its early in the year they cant get game used of rookies however they will be putting out products in April/May that are still event worn.

In addition to these companies having to make the license fee back as well as a profit, another problem you have is the lack of competition. Either having no competition or limited competition makes for lack of quality product. This is true of cards as well as most other businesses out there. IMO panini exhibits this perfectly. Their bkb products seem to be pretty poor as they have an exclusive license with the NBA. Their football products are a little better however they only compete with Topps and Topps isnt that good when it comes to football releases. Amazingly enough panini's best products are hockey, such as dominion and prime. That is because they have to go head to head with UD which still produces the best cards out there. It is too bad that the leagues really dont give a damn about collectors or quality control. All they care about is who is going to pay them the most money. I wish they could find a way to sign contracts with multiple companies. Maybe some kind of profit sharing. That way it may give some incentive to these companies to produce better products. The companies that produce the best product and sell the most product will make more of a profit, rather than having to worry about trying to repay a huge licensing contract. Sorry for the rant lol but I think these could be some of the many factors as to why the market is getting flooded
__________________
Collecting 2007 Sweet Spot Classic Patches and anything Wisconsin!

My photobucket: http://s451.photobucket.com/albums/qq239/GOWIFB/

Last edited by GOWIFB; 12-04-2012 at 12:29 PM.
GOWIFB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2012, 12:28 PM   #9 (permalink)
Member
 
tsol27's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: California
Posts: 1,258
Default

The top products, : chrome, contenders, NT, exquisite will never loose there value. Yes a lot of crap products come out. But that's what they are just crap products so just let them pass by
__________________
Pc---DREW BREES,JERED WEAVER ROLL DAMN TIDE!!!! I GO BY EBAY SALES, DONT LIKE IT? DONT DEAL WITH ME
http://s1175.photobucket.com/albums/r629/tsol27/
tsol27 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2012, 01:01 PM   #10 (permalink)
Member
 
Qwasian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Central Virginia
Posts: 9,667
Default

only buy the ones you like, the other ones will fade out if nobody buys them.
__________________
Collecting Football: GENO SMITH / E.J. MANUEL / Giovani Bernard / Cordarrelle Patterson / Eddie Lacy / Andrew Luck / Russell Wilson Basketball: Michael Carter Williams / Bradley Beal / Blake Griffin / Paul George / Damian Lillard / WNBA: Skylar Diggins
Qwasian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2012, 01:18 PM   #11 (permalink)
Member
 
trixstar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Seattle
Posts: 8,059
Default

Anyone have any thoughts on group breakers funding or making it possible for companies to keep pumping out these products without losing money? I mean every damn night someone is doing group breaks of every single product out there. I mean it's no coincidence that Panini is being advertised or was being advertised like crazy through Truth17s breaks.
__________________
Follow me on twitter @bigtrix36
I PC Da Bears, Seahawks, Mariners, Pirates
http://sportscardalbum.com/u/trixstar
trixstar is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2012, 02:46 PM   #12 (permalink)
Member
 
GOWIFB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,777
Default

I definately think group breaks have caused more product to be sold from these companies, but in the grand scheme of things I believe its a rather small portion of the pie. Keep in mind how much of this stuff is sold as personal boxes around the country at every card shop, every show, and through major internet retailers like BO, DACW, ATL, etc. I personally know of like 3 people online and locally that bust just as much product, if not more, than the group breakers do. And those people that I am aware of probably arent anywhere near the top of the list of people who bust personal boxes. Also, when talking about group breakers they usually follow how good the products are. I remember Chad (Thetruth17) completely stopped breaking ttt fb last year because it was not worth what boxes were selling for. On the contrary, he kept busting a product like black box bkb because the price had fallen so much that it really made it worth it. Group breakers are not usually going to continue to bust products that are overpriced, mainly because they will continue to have difficulty filling them.
__________________
Collecting 2007 Sweet Spot Classic Patches and anything Wisconsin!

My photobucket: http://s451.photobucket.com/albums/qq239/GOWIFB/
GOWIFB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2012, 03:52 PM   #13 (permalink)
Member
 
ivbaseball06's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Broomfield, CO
Posts: 2,623
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheHelmutt View Post
Topps Chrome, Five Star, UD Exquisite, SPA, NT and Contenders would be enough for me.
Amen to this.
__________________
SELLING The Ohio State Buckeyes Supercollection!
Albums: http://sportscardalbum.com/u/ivbaseball06
Paypal address: jordan.lawver@gmail.com
ivbaseball06 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2012, 04:05 PM   #14 (permalink)
Member
 
trixstar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Seattle
Posts: 8,059
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by GOWIFB View Post
I definately think group breaks have caused more product to be sold from these companies, but in the grand scheme of things I believe its a rather small portion of the pie. Keep in mind how much of this stuff is sold as personal boxes around the country at every card shop, every show, and through major internet retailers like BO, DACW, ATL, etc. I personally know of like 3 people online and locally that bust just as much product, if not more, than the group breakers do. And those people that I am aware of probably arent anywhere near the top of the list of people who bust personal boxes. Also, when talking about group breakers they usually follow how good the products are. I remember Chad (Thetruth17) completely stopped breaking ttt fb last year because it was not worth what boxes were selling for. On the contrary, he kept busting a product like black box bkb because the price had fallen so much that it really made it worth it. Group breakers are not usually going to continue to bust products that are overpriced, mainly because they will continue to have difficulty filling them.
I think Chad definitely is the top guy as far as consistently breaking, consistently filling and taking into account what's best for the guys breaking. Don't know how the guy keeps up with all his mail lol.
__________________
Follow me on twitter @bigtrix36
I PC Da Bears, Seahawks, Mariners, Pirates
http://sportscardalbum.com/u/trixstar
trixstar is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2012, 04:20 PM   #15 (permalink)
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 6,916
Default

Which are coming out?

Topps: Strata

Panini: Crown Royale, Rookies and Stars Longevity

I know I am missing some....
ajscards101 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2012, 04:21 PM   #16 (permalink)
Member
 
Alldaydaley25's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Pittsburgh, Pa
Posts: 1,923
Default

That's why I'm buying more and more vintage
__________________
Collecting LESEAN MCCOY and ROBERTO CLEMENTE
Bring Me VINTAGE:
Alldaydaley25 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2012, 04:24 PM   #17 (permalink)
Member
 
nera20's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 14,052
Default

Contenders and Topps Chrome are the way to go, with all the people faking patches and jerseys these days its tough to trust anything patch/jersey related anymore. I use to love patches and jerseys but now I can't stand them. I would rather have a nice on card autograph rookie and thats it.
__________________
http://s1064.photobucket.com/albums/u380/mike11681/
I don't ship outside the USA.
nera20 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2012, 04:30 PM   #18 (permalink)
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: ms gulf coast
Posts: 988
Default

Way too many products. I would love to see more legend stuff.
__________________
"Your Jim Palmer redemption replacement will be mailed soon. Come back and buy more from us." Topps Customer Service.
ediii33 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2012, 04:33 PM   #19 (permalink)
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Virginia
Posts: 429
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ediii33 View Post
Way too many products. I would love to see more legend stuff.
Could be worse back in 1998 when it seemed 20 companies produced football cards and in one month Beckett Football priced 12 new products in its February 1999 issue.
__________________
I am collecting LeBron James 2010-11 cards in general. 100 different 2010-11 cards and 100 total LeBron cards reached on May 11, 2012. 191 total LeBrons cards now. I got 177 certified autographed cards with 100 being reached on 10-11-12, 150 reached on 3-25-13 and 1 Manute Bol "non-certified" autograph. (none of LeBron of course)
dxtrfn80 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2012, 09:47 PM   #20 (permalink)
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 774
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by dxtrfn80 View Post
Could be worse back in 1998 when it seemed 20 companies produced football cards and in one month Beckett Football priced 12 new products in its February 1999 issue.
Based on how cheap singles are on Ebay right now, I can't imagine box prices/# of releases are going to hold up. It's just not sustainable to charge $100 a box when the cards inside are going to resale for a quarter of that.

Topps Chrome is widely considered to be one of the best sets out there. But take my experience as an example:

Hobby box cost: $104.95

My Rueben Randle purchases on ebay: 2 Prism Autos/50, 1 Camo Auto/105, 1 Pink Auto/75, 1 variation auto, 1 black auto

Now, Randle is probably a middle-of-the road rookie. He plays, has some stats, and might be a decent player. The cards I listed would all be considered big hits since they are low numbered auto variations.

$140 delivered total for the six cards I listed. So, in a one hit product, someone spent $624 opening boxes that yielded $140 in sell value for the hits. And this is in one of THE PRODUCTS year in and year out.

It just seems like this will eventually lead to less cards being produced as more and more people choose to spend $25 for singles on ebay rather than $100 for one box.
blevins26 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2012, 12:59 AM   #21 (permalink)
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 1,042
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by GOWIFB View Post
Definately have concerns with how much product is being put out by these companies. One of the main problems you have with them is the fact that they have to pay off these HUGE licensing agreements with the pro sports league. The leagues gouge the card companies as much as they can absorb. But of course, that is then passed on to the consumer. In order to get that money back and make a profit they have to pump out probably 2x as much product as they should be making. Then they start loading every product with rookies whose signatures dont cost much. In baseball they have started to load products with USA cards which is more of a scam as they dont even have to pay the players since they are amatuers (although I am sure they have to pay a fee to USA baseball which is still less than if they had to pay individual players). In addition, they also pump these sets full of fake jersey/patch cards because they are 'event' used and not game used. I think there is some picture out there from a saint, possibly ingram, showing him wearing like 17 jerseys at once at the rookie premier photo shoot. Sure the cards can still look cool with the patches and so forth, but I still feel it takes away from the card that they are not using game used memorabilia. Obviously if its early in the year they cant get game used of rookies however they will be putting out products in April/May that are still event worn.

In addition to these companies having to make the license fee back as well as a profit, another problem you have is the lack of competition. Either having no competition or limited competition makes for lack of quality product. This is true of cards as well as most other businesses out there. IMO panini exhibits this perfectly. Their bkb products seem to be pretty poor as they have an exclusive license with the NBA. Their football products are a little better however they only compete with Topps and Topps isnt that good when it comes to football releases. Amazingly enough panini's best products are hockey, such as dominion and prime. That is because they have to go head to head with UD which still produces the best cards out there. It is too bad that the leagues really dont give a damn about collectors or quality control. All they care about is who is going to pay them the most money. I wish they could find a way to sign contracts with multiple companies. Maybe some kind of profit sharing. That way it may give some incentive to these companies to produce better products. The companies that produce the best product and sell the most product will make more of a profit, rather than having to worry about trying to repay a huge licensing contract. Sorry for the rant lol but I think these could be some of the many factors as to why the market is getting flooded
This is probably the most accurate summary I've seen as to why companies are releasing so many virtually identical, medioce, and over-priced products.

What the industry needs to do a better job of is identifying the various hobby niches and developing products for each niche. The problem right now is that every product is virtually identical (i.e. rookie-obsessed, stuffed with endless parallels, patch/memorabilia cards, autos, etc.) and sold at the same price level (i.e. $80+ per box).

Just like there is a market for sick rookie patches and 1/1 autos, there is also a market for a $20-30 box of plain vanilla cards with no high-priced inserts and for sets focused on HOFers. There are people who collect just about everything, and the market needs to realize that.
mfw13 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2012, 01:09 AM   #22 (permalink)
Member
 
HBMC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Missouri
Posts: 8,047
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mfw13 View Post
This is probably the most accurate summary I've seen as to why companies are releasing so many virtually identical, medioce, and over-priced products.

What the industry needs to do a better job of is identifying the various hobby niches and developing products for each niche. The problem right now is that every product is virtually identical (i.e. rookie-obsessed, stuffed with endless parallels, patch/memorabilia cards, autos, etc.) and sold at the same price level (i.e. $80+ per box).

Just like there is a market for sick rookie patches and 1/1 autos, there is also a market for a $20-30 box of plain vanilla cards with no high-priced inserts and for sets focused on HOFers. There are people who collect just about everything, and the market needs to realize that.
There's literally a product for every price range. The market is not oversaturated yet, it might get there next year though.

Remember all of the hooting about Chrome last year? About how great it was last year? Topps isn't dumb. They made even more this year.

Now luckily for both Topps and the consumer, the big rookies have exceeded the hype to a degree. Bad for the consumer, next year's class is going to pale in comparison to 2012, but that wont stop Topps from making more next year because it sold so well this year.

This year could be one of the best classes of QB's ever, but that means there's going to be a lot of product shoved out (the companies aren't dumb, strike while the iron is searing red with hype from RGIII and Luck). TTT autos of Luck & RGIII shouldn't be nearly $500, but, hype has driven it there. I cannot imagine what NT and Exquisite RPA's are going to cost.
__________________
I PC: Dallas Cowboys, Arkansas Razorbacks, StL Cards, KC Chiefs
http://s1092.photobucket.com/albums/i413/hogsboysmavscards/
Searching for a 14 UD Chris Smith B&W #'d/10
Andrew Luck
HBMC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2012, 01:22 AM   #23 (permalink)
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 1,042
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by HBMC View Post
There's literally a product for every price range.
Really? Name me the products in any sport for which boxes go for less than $50 and which contain enough cards that the pro-rated price per card is less than $.25 each? Score is the only product line that I can think of...maybe Hoops, not sure if there was anything in baseball.

Maybe one product per sport, at best....
mfw13 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2012, 01:42 AM   #24 (permalink)
Member
 
HBMC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Missouri
Posts: 8,047
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mfw13 View Post
Really? Name me the products in any sport for which boxes go for less than $50 and which contain enough cards that the pro-rated price per card is less than $.25 each? Score is the only product line that I can think of...maybe Hoops, not sure if there was anything in baseball.

Maybe one product per sport, at best....
You just answered your own question. Score, base UD, base Topps for Football

Topps has the baseball market by the balls and makes a bunch of products that crossover retail and hobby that I wouldn't consider particularly expensive.

Score hockey and UD base hockey aren't expensive. I don't do a lot of hockey, but I see a lot of the packs at the retail level.

Hoops BBall isn't expensive. Neither are the Prestige Racks.

Then there's Press Pass and Sage...stuff, cards that aren't very expensive either with guaranteed autos per pack.

Now, none of these products are great for hit mining, but they're cheap for a reason.
__________________
I PC: Dallas Cowboys, Arkansas Razorbacks, StL Cards, KC Chiefs
http://s1092.photobucket.com/albums/i413/hogsboysmavscards/
Searching for a 14 UD Chris Smith B&W #'d/10
Andrew Luck
HBMC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2012, 02:09 AM   #25 (permalink)
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 1,042
Default

I guess it depends on what you consider expensive....after all, twenty years ago box prices equated to about 3-4 cents a card (Topps) and 8 cents a card (Upper Deck) and you could usually complete sets by buying 2 boxes of a product.

Today, even though there are products with relatively low box prices, the fact that there are so few cards per box, along with the fact that most sets have SP's, means that trying to complete a set through buying boxes is prohibitively expensive.

Take OPC hockey, for example. You get 256 cards per box (fewer than 200 of which are base cards), to try to complete a set of 500 base cards and 100 SP's which are seeded 1:2. So to try to complete the base set only would require a minimum of three boxes (i.e. ~$100) and to complete the base set plus SP's would require a minimum of seven boxes (~$200-250).

Compare that to twenty years ago, when you could complete most sets for about $30-40.
mfw13 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:37 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO
Copyright 2013, Blowout Cards Inc.