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Old 10-19-2009, 04:40 PM   #51 (permalink)
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I don't think it is so much him being pissed about the Steelers winning or getting a favorable call. My guess is that he lost money on the first half betting line as that 3 points gave Pitt the cover. Had that not happened, it is probably a non issue.
Kind of like how I usually would not give a darn that the Washington Redskins lost yesterday except for the fact that I picked them in my pool...
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Old 10-19-2009, 04:44 PM   #52 (permalink)
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I don't think it is so much him being pissed about the Steelers winning or getting a favorable call. My guess is that he lost money on the first half betting line as that 3 points gave Pitt the cover. Had that not happened, it is probably a non issue.
Good point - forgot that was mentioned in one of the first posts in the thread - gotta make the smart bet!

I pocketed a grand off the New Orleans / Giants game. I was definitely a bit nervous before kick-off with that much riding on it, but really a no-brainer if analyzed and researched.
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Old 10-19-2009, 04:46 PM   #53 (permalink)
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Sorry wcbraun ... wasn't going after you, but I liked the similar use of the repetitive sentence! I know how it goes during the games - show something on the big screen and everybody overreacts ... I just would be curious if Hartwig was really in a position to see it or if he (a) saw it on Jumbotron or (b) saw it on TV afterwards.

Anyway, I didn't see the game either and had no care of the outcome - but (and not directed at you!):

(a) hearing all the flak, and
(b) seeing the bogus video & still which are apparently all that is available, all I want to see is something else to help me side with the Browns - and it apparently isn't happening. Even if it WAS a bad call, I want to see how close it REALLY was.

Nobody can provide it ... and I'll trust the one guy who was within a foot of the call and is trained to make that call. NOT the hyped up players who are more than likely not in the correct position.

Again, apologies for the apparent attack.

No problem. I know you were just trying to make your point.

I just called my father from work. He lives in Washington, PA (where I was born and raised). I simply asked him what all the fuss was, about the spot of the ball.

He said (this is his opinion, I didn't see it) that the angle of the camera was off so on camera it looked like it wasn't a first down due to the angle.

So he agrees with you and the official. However, he (and I) is a life-long Steeler fan. So take what you will from that.

Sometimes I wish I hadn't let the Navy transfer me out here to the Pacific Northwest. It really annoys me that I have to watch the Seahawks every week.

At least I will get to watch the Steelers - Vikings game this week.
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Old 10-19-2009, 04:58 PM   #54 (permalink)
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I pocketed a grand off the New Orleans / Giants game.
How about a half-off group break? A grand? Wow!
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Old 10-19-2009, 05:10 PM   #55 (permalink)
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Bambam - just curious of what you've seen to substantiate it as a bad call. In all reality, I'm just looking for different proof besides the crap already provided.

Otherwise, great post and really says it all. Browns are not close to the same class as the Steelers.
Only saw the views provided. The only way I could see where the camera angle would be deceiving is if it were taken from behind the ball and a little off to the side. I doubt they televise measurements that way but who knows. I could also easily see the official not owning up to it because he is looking out for his own tail. These guys are graded weekly and only a select few work the playoffs so there is money at stake for them. A bad spot it one thing but if he can't get a simple measurement right..... I'm sure if this is that blatant a goof, ESPN and the NFL network will mention it.
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Old 10-19-2009, 05:14 PM   #56 (permalink)
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Good point - forgot that was mentioned in one of the first posts in the thread - gotta make the smart bet!

I pocketed a grand off the New Orleans / Giants game. I was definitely a bit nervous before kick-off with that much riding on it, but really a no-brainer if analyzed and researched.
What? You do your own research and analization? I just call that 800 number and get Sully's pick o' the week.
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Old 10-19-2009, 05:15 PM   #57 (permalink)
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Wolfer has been a steeler hater on here for a long time now, so when it goes their way he really bites down on it, and takes it to the extreme.
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Old 10-20-2009, 12:05 AM   #58 (permalink)
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Here is my final point on this. First thing you have to look at is the ball is right next to the damn chain there is no way at any angle you would see a gap when the ball is right next to the chain. That is the reason they place the chain right next to the ball so the ref can get the best view to tell if it is a first down or not.

Also,why has this "angle" thing never happened in any other game on tv before? its always exactly how the camera shows it, except on this one play in this one game? just wondering how you are defending this as a legitimate reason when its never come into play in any games before now.

they have moving cameras on the sideline specifically to make sure something like that doesnt happen.

if we cant trust the camera angles on a first down mark then how can we trust them for questionable calls that use video replay to judge it to be right or wrong on replay? ......in the NFL the cameras arent just there for the at home audience, they are also there as an official tool to tell right and wrong calls. so you are suggesting that all the cameras in all the games are no longer a reliable source of information of whats happening in the game when a critical decision is made. ....i cant get behind that at all
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Old 10-20-2009, 10:38 AM   #59 (permalink)
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Broncos got a gift TD last night Wolffy, where is the outrage ?
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Old 10-20-2009, 11:57 AM   #60 (permalink)
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Broncos got a gift TD last night Wolffy, where is the outrage ?
I didn't watch the game and if it was as bad as this measurement I would be hot on that one too.
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Old 10-21-2009, 11:39 AM   #61 (permalink)
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wolffer12,

I hate to bring this back up but because I didn't see the game, I decided to look into video's and pictures that show the play.

I think I watched the video, from the link you supplied, about 100 times.

I now think that the first down was warranted.

If you watch the video, look at the hashmark to the right of the ball. The hashmark is not straight across and goes up slightly at an angle.

This shows that the angle the camera is shooting from is considerably above and behind where the spot of the ball is.

So it's like an optical illusion where you have 1 item that is big and 1 item that is small side by side. Depending on where you are viewing these items from, they can look like the same size.

I think if you follow the line of the haskmark over to the measuring stick, it looks like it goes through the ball and hits the stick.

Not trying to re-open the arguement, just asking you to watch the video again and tell me what you think.
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Old 10-21-2009, 12:18 PM   #62 (permalink)
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It still doesn't answer my question of how in the history of televised games we have never seen this before. I mean why have the damn cameras on the sidelines and all the cameras in the stadium if they can use this excuss?

How come Rob Ryan and the Browns defensive players, who were standing right in line with the markers, were jumping up and down at the measurement? Did they have a bad angle too? Or wait, I know they were happy they almost stopped them. How come Justin Hartwig said after the game the ball was short of the marker? Did he also have a bad angle? I just find it way too hard to believe the excuss this is the angle of the camera. That camera would have to be 10 yards away to show that much of a difference. Again look at the video the ball is right next to the chain. The exact same measurement was taking in the Monday night game in the 1st quarter, that I watched before a softball game, and the measurement was a hell of a lot closer and guess what? It WASN'T a first down!
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Old 10-21-2009, 12:33 PM   #63 (permalink)
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I'm not arguing. I just said I looked at the link you provided me and I told you what I thought.

I don't know where the camera was placed.

I don't know if the camera is set up the same in every game.

I don't know about the Browns coach.

I don't know why Hartwig said what he did.

I just know I watched that video tons of times and if you look at the hashmark and the angle it's displayed, it makes it seem as if it is or could be a first down.

Sorry I brought this up again. I didn't mean to get you all riled up again. I was just responding to the video link you posted.
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Old 10-21-2009, 12:56 PM   #64 (permalink)
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One last post with the camera. If you have ever been to a NFL game you will notice that the sideline cameras move all the damn time. So yes as they are starting to zoom in the hashmark isn't straight in front of you but who is to say they weren't moving as they were zooming in on the ball. I just find it really hard to believe that those sideline cameras are not within inches of the center of the ball when they zoom in for the measurement. I have been to way too many games in person to believe other wise they are always moving during the game.
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Old 10-25-2009, 03:51 PM   #65 (permalink)
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Looks like the refs are trying their best again today to get the Steelers the victory. Four penalties on the Vikes, one of which, a B.S. tripping call, takes away a TD by Rice, all on the drive that ends up with a Steelers defensive TD. That drive also includes the Rice catch on the sidelines that had to be challenged to be over turned!
At least Harvin makes up for it a little with the kickoff return for a TD. The Steelers don't deserve to win this game since they have been playing with 12 men the entire game.
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Old 10-25-2009, 04:02 PM   #66 (permalink)
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Oh! There they go again. A delay of game penalty on the Vikes' D! NOBODY ON THE STEELERS JUMPED!!!!!

And on top of all this, Ward only catches one ball. Ariens is a total idiot. Didn't he watch film from last week??

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Old 10-25-2009, 04:12 PM   #67 (permalink)
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Looks like the refs are trying their best again today to get the Steelers the victory. Four penalties on the Vikes, one of which, a B.S. tripping call, takes away a TD by Rice, all on the drive that ends up with a Steelers defensive TD. That drive also includes the Rice catch on the sidelines that had to be challenged to be over turned!
At least Harvin makes up for it a little with the kickoff return for a TD. The Steelers don't deserve to win this game since they have been playing with 12 men the entire game.
That's right baby! Win a championship or two and then you can have yours, but for now, sit down and shut your *EDIT* up and know your role.

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Old 10-25-2009, 08:20 PM   #68 (permalink)
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I concur, seems like some blatantly bad calls in that field in favor of the steelers.
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Old 10-25-2009, 08:21 PM   #69 (permalink)
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That's right baby! Win a championship or two and then you can have yours, but for now, sit down and shut your *EDIT* up and know your role.

*Watch the language. -- MOD*
So who's the one that needs to shut something? Lol?
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