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Old 01-22-2013, 11:20 PM   #26 (permalink)
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Why does everyone think that the print run will be so much more than basketball? Frankly, I don't see that much difference in price compared to chrome. You do get 2 autos. The only thing Chrome has this year in hobby as far as value is that it has blue wave packs. I'll take Prizm over any 2013 product from next years draft for the going price right now. It will hold its own.
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Old 01-22-2013, 11:25 PM   #27 (permalink)
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Why does everyone think that the print run will be so much more than basketball? Frankly, I don't see that much difference in price compared to chrome. You do get 2 autos. The only thing Chrome has this year in hobby as far as value is that it has blue wave packs. I'll take Prizm over any 2013 product from next years draft for the going price right now. It will hold its own.
Chrome autos have built in value and they are all rookies (almost, the one's that aren't are very valuable). I have a feeling that a lot of the Prizm auto checklist will be in the 5-10 dollar range soon after release. Prizm is a solid product, but I think the hype is getting a little too high. Its all about Luck/Wilson/RG3 and if you don't hit any of those guys your screwed.
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Old 01-22-2013, 11:34 PM   #28 (permalink)
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Lol. 90% of boxes in general you get screwed. Nothing new as far as that goes. Alfred Morris begs to differ.
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Old 01-22-2013, 11:37 PM   #29 (permalink)
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im hoping this is as good as the NBA release if so this will jump in price very quickly trsut me
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Old 01-22-2013, 11:45 PM   #30 (permalink)
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it won't be as good as the basketball release was but the cards will hold their own. the thing that prizm has that chrome doesn't....veteran autos. while that might not be big to some, not many products out there can boast that they have 100 veteran autos in their set and it will be very attractive to the normal box buster
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Old 01-22-2013, 11:46 PM   #31 (permalink)
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it won't be as good as the basketball release was but the cards will hold their own. the thing that prizm has that chrome doesn't....veteran autos. while that might not be big to some, not many products out there can boast that they have 100 veteran autos in their set
I see a sticker dump in my crystal ball
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Old 01-22-2013, 11:59 PM   #32 (permalink)
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The vet auto selection looks great.
Can't wait!
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Old 01-23-2013, 12:04 AM   #33 (permalink)
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I'll be busting a blaster or two and then picking up Packers singles and I'll be happy as a clam.
^ THIS. Plus I'm happy for GREEN refractors to make an appearance for us Packers fans. Haven't seen one since 2009 Bowman Chrome and those looked NICE.
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Old 01-23-2013, 12:09 AM   #34 (permalink)
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there's some pretty crazy misinformation being posted in this thread.

prizm NFL will be red hot on release because the refractors will look better than, and will be perceived by the market as being much more valuable than their topps chrome counterparts. it will drive the lottery ticket mentality demand like nothing ever seen before in football. the content of the auto checklist will be largely irrelevant to the wax price.

the print run including retail is going to be pretty conservative. a bit more than prizm NBA, but significantly less than TC NFL.

hobby wax will never retail below MAPP.

there are no blasters (or racks) being made. retail will be only 24 pack boxes.

you will be lucky to finish 1 base set out of a $1200+ hobby case. obviously they will never sell for $20-30.
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Old 01-23-2013, 12:20 AM   #35 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by phil View Post
there's some pretty crazy misinformation being posted in this thread.

prizm NFL will be red hot on release because the refractors will look better than, and will be perceived by the market as being much more valuable than their topps chrome counterparts. it will drive the lottery ticket mentality demand like nothing ever seen before in football. the content of the auto checklist will be largely irrelevant to the wax price.

the print run including retail is going to be pretty conservative. a bit more than prizm NBA, but significantly less than TC NFL.

hobby wax will never retail below MAPP.

there are no blasters (or racks) being made. retail will be only 24 pack boxes.

you will be lucky to finish 1 base set out of a $1200+ hobby case. obviously they will never sell for $20-30.
You just made my two points of why I don't think it'll be the next amazing thing.

A refractor of Chris Givens isn't going to go for that much. In prizm NBA, the refractors of most of the rookies were going for plenty. Other than the 6 or 7 top rookies, "refractors" won't go for much.

Secondly, we have no idea of the exact print run of retail prizm NFL. Lets wait until it comes out to judge that.

Third, you're right, there's a good chance with the horrible collation (see: Prizm NBA) that you might only get 1 set out of a case. In all honestly, I wouldn't be surprised that out of 240 rookies that you will get (if it stays true that they are 1 per pack, it changes obviously if some packs have more than 1) that you could possibly not make a full base set.

Topps Chrome has built in value with on card autos (which Prizm does not have), plenty of parallels, and plenty of sets/rookies per box/case. I myself got 4-5 of each big rookie in each of my cases, in Prizm, that won't happen.

Now take all of this, and compare it to Topps Chrome's ORIGINAL price (Not the price it rose to). Chrome was definitely the better buy. Sure, I'll buy a box of Prizm to see what it looks like, but there will be plenty of cases where their best rookie auto is a Justin Blackmon sticker auto and they will get 4 golds of Isaiah Pead, Michael Egnew, and two lower end veterans, and wonder why they only got 400 back from their case.

Every product has risk, but the only reason Prizm NBA was popular is because of the golds /10 that everyone went crazy for. It's no secret that parallels sell a LOT better in basketball than in football. 95% of the boxes had 2 $2 dollar autos, 3 refractors, a couple inserts, and the base. At least in Topps Chrome, you got 4-5 parallel autos (read: other than base) per case, lots of color, well collated base, and just as good of a chance at a huge card.
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Old 01-23-2013, 12:56 AM   #36 (permalink)
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It's funny to watch people trash a product they don't buy. Even before it comes out.
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Old 01-23-2013, 01:02 AM   #37 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Carrbeaz View Post
It's funny to watch people trash a product they don't buy. Even before it comes out.
It's like this with every product (except Chrome of course, that's the sacred cow of everything):

"This looks terrible"

"This is trash"

"I'll stick to singles"

"What an ugly design"

"I wish UD had a license again"

Etc...Etc...Etc
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Old 01-23-2013, 01:13 AM   #38 (permalink)
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You just made my two points of why I don't think it'll be the next amazing thing.
you're mostly talking about break value which i said nothing about. my point was the perception of greater value of the key cards - pretty much any of the blacks, stars and key rookies in gold and red, will drive the wax price. this will happen regardless of how the break value compares to TC in reality.


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In prizm NBA, the refractors of most of the rookies were going for plenty.
most?


Quote:
Secondly, we have no idea of the exact print run of retail prizm NFL.
if what is stated on the sell sheet about serial-numbering on the autos is even close to accurate the print run including retail has to at least be in the ballpark of NBA. and obviously for whatever reason demand is way greater than supply right now. i concede distributors could be playing games with supply, but even so i don't think that will matter much.

Quote:
Third, you're right, there's a good chance with the horrible collation (see: Prizm NBA) that you might only get 1 set out of a case. In all honestly, I wouldn't be surprised that out of 240 rookies that you will get (if it stays true that they are 1 per pack, it changes obviously if some packs have more than 1) that you could possibly not make a full base set.
if anything this just helps long-term demand.

Quote:
Now take all of this, and compare it to Topps Chrome's ORIGINAL price (Not the price it rose to). Chrome was definitely the better buy.
MAPP kind of makes this an unfair comparison. it would be more accurate to compare factory cost.

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It's no secret that parallels sell a LOT better in basketball than in football.
parallels of MJ, lebron, & kobe sell for more than anything in football. that said, i expect prizm colors to set a precedent in football not seen before. that's the main point of my previous post.
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Old 01-23-2013, 01:39 AM   #39 (permalink)
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The similarities to Chrome are probably appealing to some, but let's face it the hype in basketball is driving this thing. People who don't know about how the Jordan 90's inserts caused the insert market to go crazy in basketball don't realize that rule doesn't apply to other sports. So they think that just like basketball they can open a box of Prizm and make hundreds if they pull a random refractor of a middle-tier player.
Where are you hearing "people expect to make hundreds if they pull a random refractor of a middle-tier player"? I would think it is for the Same reason we all bought the hell out of chrome until the Big cards were taken. Those of us (me included) who are buying Prism are hoping to hit one of the Green, red, Gold or Black 1/1's of the big name people.

If we hit a middle of the line rc like say Nick Foles. I would expect to get $50-$75 just like a chrome red /25 or if the Prism gold has an Auto version i would expect it to bring in $300-$500.

Thats just my thoughts.
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Old 01-23-2013, 01:55 AM   #40 (permalink)
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Personally, I'd like to see the checklist for the vet autos and to see if they get Kaepernick added to this set. With the timing of the hobby product coming out just after the Super Bowl, he could be another chase player in this set, even if it is his second year.

I'd bet that his popularity has drawn people back into the hobby.
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Old 01-23-2013, 02:07 AM   #41 (permalink)
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Where are you hearing "people expect to make hundreds if they pull a random refractor of a middle-tier player"? I would think it is for the Same reason we all bought the hell out of chrome until the Big cards were taken. Those of us (me included) who are buying Prism are hoping to hit one of the Green, red, Gold or Black 1/1's of the big name people.

If we hit a middle of the line rc like say Nick Foles. I would expect to get $50-$75 just like a chrome red /25 or if the Prism gold has an Auto version i would expect it to bring in $300-$500.

Thats just my thoughts.
I'm hearing it from all the people acting like this product will be huge before it has even come out like this is the greatest product in years and have driven the price up already. Every product has some chase hits, some are better than others and add value with inserts and refractors like Chrome. But they don't get this kind of hype and price increases. That's the whole point of why me and others are on the negative side, the value is going to be way less than people believe it to be because basketball skewed people's view of it. It's beyond any rhyme or reason. You can follow the trail it's very clear:

1) The shill bidding racket in basketball drives up the price of most 90's Michael Jordan inserts to obscene prices. If you aren't familiar with it most people in basketball believe there is a racket of high-end sellers that inflate their card values by buying them from each other at auction for insane prices. Like thousands. They started with the 90's Jordan inserts and then it spread to most 90's inserts like Precious Metal Gems. Suddenly any somewhat notable player with a numbered insert from the 90's is going for big money.

2) The companies see this and decide to try and recreate that magic. Upper Deck releases Fleer Retro. Panini releases Prizm. The results are exactly like they hoped, the insert craze carries over into the new products and just like the 90's cards almost any random insert or refractor is getting serious money. It was probably a mix of shillers moving into the new cards combined with short sighted people who just assumed these new inserts would have the same crazy values as the ones from the 90's. Box prices skyrocket, everyone generally goes nuts for them.

3) In their greed and business shark mentality, the companies see this success and know right away they can use this to their advantage by taking it to other sports. Upper Deck plans Fleer Retro Football. Panini follows suit with Prizm Football. They are hoping people will do exactly what they are doing. The want collectors to look at how these products did in basketball and salivate over them assuming the same value will be there in football.

You guys are feeding right into what they want, why release another random 3-5 hit product nobody will give a crap about when they can just do this? Release that exact same crappy product but oh look shiny inserts! And look they are just like the ones in basketball! Did you see how much those go for? These will be just like that right? No they won't, because there is no history to the inserts and craziness like there is in basketball. It's a completely different animal. If it wasn't, how come there aren't 90's football inserts selling for thousands all day long?

It might be a perfectly fine product, and yeah when you place it beside all the other random products it will be like Chrome was and at least be somewhat better because of the added value of refractors and whatnot. But to be going all in on it like some people are and seeing the price rise, for what? Because of basketball? Huge mistake. Chrome is a terrible buy now after the huge price hikes, and basically Prizm is starting out inflated before it even comes out.
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Old 01-23-2013, 02:07 AM   #42 (permalink)
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Personally, I'd like to see the checklist for the vet autos and to see if they get Kaepernick added to this set. With the timing of the hobby product coming out just after the Super Bowl, he could be another chase player in this set, even if it is his second year.

I'd bet that his popularity has drawn people back into the hobby.
Just after? Prizm releases next week on Wed.
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Old 01-23-2013, 02:37 AM   #43 (permalink)
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Just after? Prizm releases next week on Wed.
Right, I was thinking hobby which releases on the 6th.
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Old 01-23-2013, 03:22 AM   #44 (permalink)
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Right, I was thinking hobby which releases on the 6th.
Wrong again, Hobby Releases on the 30th.

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Old 01-23-2013, 08:11 AM   #45 (permalink)
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i like football cards
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Old 01-23-2013, 09:27 AM   #46 (permalink)
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i think that prizm football is gonna be red hot out of the gate. people are gonna assume that its gonna be just as hot as basketball is right now. so when its released, the price is gonna go up. maybe after a couple weeks its gonna settle down but i wouldn't count on it. all that is really left to release this year are the real big hitters and like i stated before, none have the veteran autos that prizm will either (although i am sure most will be turds, still nice to see some vets)
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Old 01-23-2013, 12:50 PM   #47 (permalink)
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Any idea on the the retired autos they have? Think Kaepernick will have an auto in this product?
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Old 01-23-2013, 01:23 PM   #48 (permalink)
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Jordy Nelson auto in the set, that makes me in.

I doubt Worthy will be in it, but one can hope.
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Old 01-23-2013, 02:14 PM   #49 (permalink)
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I'll be busting a blaster or two and then picking up Packers singles and I'll be happy as a clam.
how happy are clams.............?
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Old 01-23-2013, 02:32 PM   #50 (permalink)
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[QUOTE=friarbolt;4088435]Biggest bust of the year, so many people are gonna lose their pants on this. And then they will wonder why a Chris Givens or Greg Childs green refractor isn't going for $200+ like similar cards are going for over in basketball. This ain't basketball![/QUOTE]

This.

Basketball is a slightly different fan base and although I DO like the look of the cards, at best, this will get a Super Bowl bump.

The best cards will be the auto rookies of course (Luck, RG), but for Panini, the Prizm Basketball is pretty much their flagship in my opinion; it's the right color, right style, etc. Kind of like Bowman, Bowman Platinum, etc - Baseball is their flagship, while they produce a similar line for the other products.

I think in basketball it looks pretty sharp and I have to admit, the football cards look pretty well....but Chrome is hard to top
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