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Old 03-04-2013, 11:05 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default Guess Mr. Rodgers Superfractor is staying...STUNNING $20,000 PSA FAKES CAN'T FOOL ME.

So a few days ago I said that I was trading away two of my prized possessions - 2005 Aaron Rodgers Topps DPP Superfractor 1/1 bgs 9.5 (only RC supefractor of Rodgers) and a 2005 SP Authentic Gold /25 BGS 9.5. I was sending some other stuff too and I was trading it all for a Michael Jordan RC PSA 10, Jerry Rice RC PSA 10, and a Nolan Ryan rookie PSA 9.

Guy sends scans, they look unbelievable. He sends first (I would never, ever, ever, ever, ever, EVER, send first...Ever). I get them in the mail today and thanks to my excellent detective work I spot that all three are fakes almost immediately.

The crazy thing is, the PSA cases are unbelievable. They are absolutely identical to real PSA cases. I see no evidence of tampering whatsoever, and they line up perfectly with all my real PSA cases.

The thing is if I didn't know what I was doing and utilized all the tools at my disposal, I would've sent off 20k worth of cards and been stuck with a bunch of phonies.

Of course I called the seller, told them they were all fake, he apologized because of course he "didn't know" (right) so now they're going back to where they came from.


WHEW. Still bummed I couldn't unload these cards though.

UPDATE: I talked to PSA today. Basically they said the only thing I can do is send them the cards and if they deem the cases to be tampered with then they will break the cards out of the case, keep the holder, and send me back the cards out of the holder with a letter stating everything they did. They warned me, however, that they are not responsible for the cards, only the holders, and that I would be liable for any retaliation the seller might seek. Also, they said if I called local law enforcement they likely would not do anything but would only refer me to PSA since they are not professionals and cannot validate whether the cards are fake or not. This is exactly what I thought they would say, but I wanted to at least try to do the "right" thing.

So, I will be sending the cards back to the seller. He is reading these posts so now he knows he continue to steal for a living. He will reap what he sows. I just feel sorry for whoever gets frauded out of these. I know these threads have been around forever, and this has been a problem with PSA for years, but I hope it does serve as a warning for everyone with their card purchases in the future.

Normally I would give the seller the benefit of the doubt (maybe he got scammed too, and didn't know?) but as soon as I called him out on his fakes he was trying to sell them to others. This morning he told me it wasn't him that tried to resell them but his business partner. Evidently his business partner also goes by "Dominic." He is a scammer. Top_shelf_cards.
Attached Thumbnails
Guess Mr. Rodgers Superfractor is staying...STUNNING ,000 PSA FAKES CAN'T FOOL ME.-ryan-rice-jordan-front-fakes.jpg   Guess Mr. Rodgers Superfractor is staying...STUNNING ,000 PSA FAKES CAN'T FOOL ME.-ryan-rice-jordan-backs-fakes.jpg   Guess Mr. Rodgers Superfractor is staying...STUNNING ,000 PSA FAKES CAN'T FOOL ME.-michael-jordan-fake.jpg   Guess Mr. Rodgers Superfractor is staying...STUNNING ,000 PSA FAKES CAN'T FOOL ME.-michael-jordan-fakeb.jpg   Guess Mr. Rodgers Superfractor is staying...STUNNING ,000 PSA FAKES CAN'T FOOL ME.-nolan-ryan-fake.jpg  

Guess Mr. Rodgers Superfractor is staying...STUNNING ,000 PSA FAKES CAN'T FOOL ME.-nolan-ryan-fakeb.jpg   Guess Mr. Rodgers Superfractor is staying...STUNNING ,000 PSA FAKES CAN'T FOOL ME.-jerry-rice-fake.jpg   Guess Mr. Rodgers Superfractor is staying...STUNNING ,000 PSA FAKES CAN'T FOOL ME.-jerry-rice-fakeb.jpg   Guess Mr. Rodgers Superfractor is staying...STUNNING ,000 PSA FAKES CAN'T FOOL ME.-jerry-rice-fakec.jpg  

Last edited by pejc300; 03-05-2013 at 01:02 PM. Reason: Update
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Old 03-04-2013, 11:08 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Good eye!
Can you elaborate on what makes them fake?

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Old 03-04-2013, 11:18 PM   #3 (permalink)
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looks like they were trimmed?
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Old 03-04-2013, 11:20 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Dodged a bullet there... how can you tell?
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Old 03-04-2013, 11:21 PM   #5 (permalink)
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For starters, the print looked a bit off (then upon closer inspection, they looked even more off). All three of the card have legit serial numbers. The biggest tell was that I found all three original cards (the real ones in the PSA cases) via worthpoint, etc. and saw that the barcodes were different. So, the fakes have the same typing, same serial number, same everything, but the barcodes are off. And yes, both the Ryan and Rice looked way too short on the borders when I got them, and the rest was obvious.

I'm telling you though, the guy definitely has the same PSA machine as PSA does, because the cases are absolutely flawless and identical. Crazy.
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Old 03-04-2013, 11:22 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by pejc300 View Post
For starters, the print looked a bit off (then upon closer inspection, they looked even more off). All three of the card have legit serial numbers. The biggest tell was that I found all three original cards (the real ones in the PSA cases) via worthpoint, etc. and saw that the barcodes were different. So, the fakes have the same typing, same serial number, same everything, but the barcodes are off. And yes, both the Ryan and Rice looked way to short on the borders when I got them, and the rest was obvious.

I'm telling you though, the guy definitely has the same PSA machine as PSA does, because the cases are absolutely flawless and identical. Crazy.
damn that's scary
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Old 03-04-2013, 11:25 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by pejc300 View Post
For starters, the print looked a bit off (then upon closer inspection, they looked even more off). All three of the card have legit serial numbers. The biggest tell was that I found all three original cards (the real ones in the PSA cases) via worthpoint, etc. and saw that the barcodes were different. So, the fakes have the same typing, same serial number, same everything, but the barcodes are off. And yes, both the Ryan and Rice looked way too short on the borders when I got them, and the rest was obvious.

I'm telling you though, the guy definitely has the same PSA machine as PSA does, because the cases are absolutely flawless and identical. Crazy.
Just playing devils advocate... is it possible the bar codes were distorted in pictures on worthpoint? Did you contact anyone at PSA? You're making a class A felony accusation here.. there has to be more than your view of bar codes in an old scan doesn't there?
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Last edited by Imac7065; 03-04-2013 at 11:35 PM.
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Old 03-04-2013, 11:27 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Just playing devils advocate... is it possible the bar codes were distorted in pictures on worthpoint? Did you contact anyone at PSA? You re making a class A felony accusation here.. there has to be more than your view of bar codes in an old scan doesn't there?
You can play devil's advocate all you want. I'll sell them to you for $200
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Old 03-04-2013, 11:29 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Here is the original Nolan Ryan. Notice how the borders are larger and the barcode is different (hard to see the barcode in the pics I provided you though)

1968 Topps Nolan Ryan PSA 9 | eBay
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Old 03-04-2013, 11:32 PM   #10 (permalink)
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That is scary. I was thinking about this the other night as I was thinking about making a high end purchase. There really is nothing keeping people from counterfeiting PSA cards. There are simple labels ad the seam in the middle of the card could simply be glued back together. I wonder how many others are out in the market.... or even worse, if any are in my own collection.
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Old 03-04-2013, 11:32 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Here is the original Nolan Ryan. Notice how the borders are larger and the barcode is different (hard to see the barcode in the pics I provided you though)

1968 Topps Nolan Ryan PSA 9 | eBay
It's still not 100% but those codes do appear different. I would still contact someone at PSA before returning those items. They may want to take action either way.
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Old 03-04-2013, 11:33 PM   #12 (permalink)
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That is scary. I was thinking about this the other night as I was thinking about making a high end purchase. There really is nothing keeping people from counterfeiting PSA cards. There are simple labels ad the seam in the middle of the card could simply be glued back together. I wonder how many others are out in the market.... or even worse, if any are in my own collection.
Agree 100%. I will never buy an MJ rC PSA 10 without seeing it in person first. If I were to have bought these on ebay and the seller didn't offer refunds, it would be a HUGE pain to try and prove they were fake, and who knows, maybe ebay would side with the seller. Insane man.
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Old 03-04-2013, 11:34 PM   #13 (permalink)
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It's still not 100% but those codes do appear different. I would still contact someone at PSA before returning those items. They may want to take action either way.
But, you can easily tell that the card is different.
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Old 03-04-2013, 11:34 PM   #14 (permalink)
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That is scary. I was thinking about this the other night as I was thinking about making a high end purchase. There really is nothing keeping people from counterfeiting PSA cards. There are simple labels ad the seam in the middle of the card could simply be glued back together. I wonder how many others are out in the market.... or even worse, if any are in my own collection.
faked graded cards are very easy to spot.. tampered cases are loose, and if you see any form of glue.. its fake. The OP is saying these are sonically sealed cards (I think?) which would mean someone created the same cases as PSA in their basement.
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Old 03-04-2013, 11:36 PM   #15 (permalink)
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This is scary and thank you for posting it. How did he react to you telling him they were fake? Did he ask a million questions and did he say where he got them? If he took the time to forge everything else I wonder why he wouldn't have sharpened up the bar code and font? I will never look at a vintage PSA the same again. He believed he would get away with it enough to send first. It sounds like you're pretty sure he knew what he was doing...if that's the case he tried to steal from you. Big time.
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Old 03-04-2013, 11:38 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Another dead giveaway is the frosting on the sides of each PSA case. Once the sealed is cracked the frosting is visible from the tampering.
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Old 03-04-2013, 11:39 PM   #17 (permalink)
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So I don't know if this is the same person or not but I just got a message from a guy on ebay who is offering two of these exact cards for some of my Rodgers cards. If this is the same person he is a definite scammer. Here is the message he just sent me.
Hello,

I love your 3 Rodgers RCs! THey look awesome. Would you be interested in a trade? I will offer you choice of rookies of: 86 Fleer #57 Jordan psa 10, an 86 Topps Jerry rice psa 10, or a 52 Topps mantle psa 3.

If a possible trade could be worked out maybe we could talk over the phone?

Dominic

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Old 03-04-2013, 11:41 PM   #18 (permalink)
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This is scary and thank you for posting it. How did he react to you telling him they were fake? Did he ask a million questions and did he say where he got them? If he took the time to forge everything else I wonder why he wouldn't have sharpened up the bar code and font? I will never look at a vintage PSA the same again. He believed he would get away with it enough to send first. It sounds like you're pretty sure he knew what he was doing...if that's the case he tried to steal from you. Big time.
OR

the guy had no idea they were fake, seems like a much more plausible answer.

I have no proof of this, but I get the feeling that the majority of fakes out there are owned by someone who has no idea they are fake
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Old 03-04-2013, 11:45 PM   #19 (permalink)
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For starters, the print looked a bit off (then upon closer inspection, they looked even more off). All three of the card have legit serial numbers. The biggest tell was that I found all three original cards (the real ones in the PSA cases) via worthpoint, etc. and saw that the barcodes were different. So, the fakes have the same typing, same serial number, same everything, but the barcodes are off. And yes, both the Ryan and Rice looked way too short on the borders when I got them, and the rest was obvious.

I'm telling you though, the guy definitely has the same PSA machine as PSA does, because the cases are absolutely flawless and identical. Crazy.

That is not good, have you contacted PSA about this? Perhaps a watermark in their slabs or something that is hard to duplicate is in order
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Old 03-04-2013, 11:47 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Crazy - I'm still trying to look at them vs my cases to see the differences
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Old 03-04-2013, 11:47 PM   #21 (permalink)
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So I don't know if this is the same person or not but I just got a message from a guy on ebay who is offering two of these exact cards for some of my Rodgers cards. If this is the same person he is a definite scammer. Here is the message he just sent me.
Hello,

I love your 3 Rodgers RCs! THey look awesome. Would you be interested in a trade? I will offer you choice of rookies of: 86 Fleer #57 Jordan psa 10, an 86 Topps Jerry rice psa 10, or a 52 Topps mantle psa 3.

If a possible trade could be worked out maybe we could talk over the phone?

Dominic

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His feedback is private. I think the op should think about pressing criminal chargers if its proven he is or has been trying to move fakes.
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Old 03-04-2013, 11:48 PM   #22 (permalink)
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So I don't know if this is the same person or not but I just got a message from a guy on ebay who is offering two of these exact cards for some of my Rodgers cards. If this is the same person he is a definite scammer. Here is the message he just sent me.
Hello,

I love your 3 Rodgers RCs! THey look awesome. Would you be interested in a trade? I will offer you choice of rookies of: 86 Fleer #57 Jordan psa 10, an 86 Topps Jerry rice psa 10, or a 52 Topps mantle psa 3.

If a possible trade could be worked out maybe we could talk over the phone?

Dominic

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Holy crap. I was not going to out him like that, but dude is obviously a big time scammer. He knows they are fake now and still trying to work deals! WATCH OUT.
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Old 03-04-2013, 11:50 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Holy crap. I was not going to out him like that, but dude is obviously a big time scammer. He knows they are fake now and still trying to work deals! WATCH OUT.
You have his address handy, pm me it if you do not want to post this. He may be one of the biggest scammer in the hobby. I heard about this scam for a while now and many people been burnt.
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Old 03-04-2013, 11:53 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Yea I had to say something, I literally just read your thread about this and then about ten minutes later I got a message from the guy. He is obviously looking to move these cards to someone who doesn't know they're fake. Good catch.
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Old 03-04-2013, 11:54 PM   #25 (permalink)
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I just posted more pics. And for those of you wondering, there is NO frosting on these cases. I compared them to ones I just got back from PSA personally and they look identical. I may be wrong, and not looking through a "loop" or anything, but I can't tell a difference. Even the ones I literally just got back from PSA have some kind of blurry/chipped seams, and these look no different. They are identical.
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