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Old 04-11-2014, 01:14 PM   #51 (permalink)
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And the 5 days starts now.
Browns transition-tagged center Alex Mack signed his five-year, $42M offer sheet that includes $26M guaranteed with the Jaguars.
Alex Mack can void final three years of deal with promise he cannot be tagged again. Deal also includes a no-trade provision.
Per Schefter

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Old 04-11-2014, 01:16 PM   #52 (permalink)
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Easiest match ever based on how the deal was structured now that all the details are out there. I can't believe this is what this agent has been building up for weeks (Mack has a very vocal agent that was huffing and puffing about his this crazy creative deal was going to get done)

The crazy part apparently is an opt out after 2 years and a no trade clause?

Not creative at all.

I mean it's still huge dollars for a Center - but the Browns haven't had enough Pro Bowl players in the last 15 years to just let him walk over 1-2 million bucks.
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Old 04-11-2014, 01:27 PM   #53 (permalink)
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Seems pretty easy to match to me. But you have to be willing to pay 13 mil a year average because this contract is basically set up so he only has to spend 2 more years in Cleveland. That is a lot of money for a center.
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Old 04-11-2014, 01:30 PM   #54 (permalink)
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Seems pretty easy to match to me. But you have to be willing to pay 13 mil a year average because this contract is basically set up so he only has to spend 2 more years in Cleveland. That is a lot of money for a center.
That's not it at all.

It pays out 10 million in 2014 and then 8 million a year over the remaining 4 years (should he not opt out)

It's essentially a 2 year 18 million dollar deal with the ability for Mack to tack on 3 more years (at 8 million a piece) should be choose to do so.

Not sure where you are getting 13 million a year average - the guarantee only kicks in for year three if he doesn't opt out.
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Old 04-11-2014, 01:31 PM   #55 (permalink)
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Because the contract would have 26 mil guaranteed dollars. Unless there is language written in that if he uses the escape clause then a portion of the guaranteed money is forfeited then it would be 26 mil over 2 years.
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Old 04-11-2014, 01:33 PM   #56 (permalink)
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Because the contract would have 26 mil guaranteed dollars. Unless there is language written in that if he uses the escape clause then a portion of the guaranteed money is forfeited then it would be 26 mil over 2 years.
The 3rd year guarantee is voided if he opts out - it's not a straight "opt out" - it voids the deal completely from that moment (which would void the guarantee he wouldn't have been paid since it's 10/8/8).

So it's either a 2 year 18 million w/18 guaranteed or the 5 year 42 million w/26 guaranteed.
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Old 04-11-2014, 01:36 PM   #57 (permalink)
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I am at work so I haven't read any more specifics then what have been posted. I would agree then. 9 a year for a pro bowl center isn't out of this world. But I think it is obvious from the opt-out clause he is gone regardless. Just do you lose him now or in 2 years?
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Old 04-11-2014, 01:38 PM   #58 (permalink)
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Because the contract would have 26 mil guaranteed dollars. Unless there is language written in that if he uses the escape clause then a portion of the guaranteed money is forfeited then it would be 26 mil over 2 years.
Way too much money and risk, what if he stops playing at that high of a level? they are on the hook when he doesnt opt out, or he is still playing at a high level and opts out for greener pastures. Nothing more then a 2 year rental or a 5 year committment they may not like.

After the NFL changed the rules how these were written thats one bad ass agent sticking it to the Browns. I would not pay it. For all of the noise about how bad the Redskins offensive line was the Broncos are entrusting Peyton with their former center for 3 million bucks a season. If this was the Skins I could understand them keeping Mack becuase of the investment in Griffin but with no QB in Cleveland I would let him go for that price
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Old 04-11-2014, 01:43 PM   #59 (permalink)
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Way too much money and risk, what if he stops playing at that high of a level? they are on the hook when he doesnt opt out, or he is still playing at a high level and opts out for greener pastures. Nothing more then a 2 year rental or a 5 year committment they may not like.

After the NFL changed the rules how these were written thats one bad ass agent sticking it to the Browns. I would not pay it. For all of the noise about how bad the Redskins offensive line was the Broncos are entrusting Peyton with their former center for 3 million bucks a season. If this was the Skins I could understand them keeping Mack becuase of the investment in Griffin but with no QB in Cleveland I would let him go for that price
#1 - You act like Mack is 100 years old and is about to die. What if Desean doesn't keep playing at a high level? Oh of course he will. He's on your team so that could never be a mistake. You talk so much out of both sides of your mouth it's amazing. Mack is a 28 year old Pro Bowler. If he stays for 2 years than so be it - why let him walk away for free? The deal he just signed is already cheaper than the transition tag. The Browns saved a million bucks a year with this deal. If he chooses to stay for 5 than you were stuck with a Pro Bowler for the long term. Damn. Mack isn't just going to fall off the map in production (or at least I'm sure he wouldn't in Washington where he would dominate until he's 40)

#2 - Your QB argument is counter-intuitive. Sure it makes sense to build the OLine if you have a star QB. It also makes sense to pay money to your building blocks (a la Seattle) when you don't have a high priced QB eating up cap dollars.

If you don't have a high priced QB in Cleveland (which you don't - even if they draft one) why would you let a Pro Bowl player just walk away for nothing? That money needs spent somewhere.

Unlike Denver who has to pay for Manning the Browns don't have to pay for a QB. You can afford to overpay for him. Just like any other team (like your guys in Washington wasting a crap ton of money on the worthless Browns castoff Shawn Lauvao) because you're QB is still on a rookie contract
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Old 04-11-2014, 01:47 PM   #60 (permalink)
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To further my point if its not clear enough, in the age of salary cap a teams highest paid players should not include a center. They should be the LT, QB, WR, CB, S, LB, CB, RB, G, then C. paying this much money for a C is swaying the books too off kilter to me. The leagues highest paid C as for salary goes like this. 9 players in the league make over 4 million a season, the rest make less. There are only 8 guys who make more then 6 million a year and five play on losing teams. There is a reason for that and its the salary cap.

Tying a team to 16 million guarenteed for 2 years on a center says to me the teams either got a bad repuatation and no one will play there or management are straight up idiots for running there business like that and should be much more involved in putting that money into other positions
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Old 04-11-2014, 01:49 PM   #61 (permalink)
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Aswhatever TLDR that wall of text, you seem mad bro
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Old 04-11-2014, 01:54 PM   #62 (permalink)
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To further my point if its not clear enough, in the age of salary cap a teams highest paid players should not include a center. They should be the LT, QB, WR, CB, S, LB, CB, RB, G, then C. paying this much money for a C is swaying the books too off kilter to me. The leagues highest paid C as for salary goes like this. 9 players in the league make over 4 million a season, the rest make less. There are only 8 guys who make more then 6 million a year and five play on losing teams. There is a reason for that and its the salary cap.

Tying a team to 16 million guarenteed for 2 years on a center says to me the teams either got a bad repuatation and no one will play there or management are straight up idiots for running there business like that and should be much more involved in putting that money into other positions
Is the highlighted part the order positions should get paid? I want to ask to make sure.
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Old 04-11-2014, 01:57 PM   #63 (permalink)
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I admire the OP's ability to try to spin everything as a positive for the Browns, regardless of what happens or how he previously criticized something.
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Old 04-11-2014, 01:58 PM   #64 (permalink)
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Is the highlighted part the order positions should get paid? I want to ask to make sure.
The order is whatever order the Redskins pay their guys. That's blatantly obvious.
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Old 04-11-2014, 01:58 PM   #65 (permalink)
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I admire the OP's ability to try to spin everything as a positive for the Browns, regardless of what happens or how he previously criticized something.
I said paying over the transition tag was a mistake. I've said that since the get go. This contract is well under the transition tag.

What am I missing?
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Old 04-11-2014, 03:47 PM   #66 (permalink)
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That's not it at all.

It pays out 10 million in 2014 and then 8 million a year over the remaining 4 years (should he not opt out)

It's essentially a 2 year 18 million dollar deal with the ability for Mack to tack on 3 more years (at 8 million a piece) should be choose to do so.

Not sure where you are getting 13 million a year average - the guarantee only kicks in for year three if he doesn't opt out.
So much for not creative!
Per NFL.com, the specifics of the deal have made it harder than originally imagined.
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Old 04-11-2014, 03:54 PM   #67 (permalink)
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So much for not creative!
Per NFL.com, the specifics of the deal have made it harder than originally imagined.
Is that referring to the no trade clause or the fact that he can't be tagged if he opts out in 2016?

Not sure that's really very creative. It's a pain I suppose but hardly a deterent.

If they don't match it's because they don't think he's worth being the highest paid C in Football. Not because of those 2 clauses.
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Old 04-11-2014, 04:04 PM   #68 (permalink)
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Jay Glazer‏@JayGlazer·1m
Browns had gone back and forth bc of guarantee and were leery of 25 mil or north but decided to match

Jay Glazer‏@JayGlazer·3m
Browns are matching the offer sheet to Alex Mack, will remain a Brown
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Old 04-11-2014, 04:04 PM   #69 (permalink)
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Is the highlighted part the order positions should get paid? I want to ask to make sure.
Not necessarily in that direct order and you could argue that list forever but my point remains the same

Now this is over we can go watch Draft Day and watch the Browns have success, only in the movies lol
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Old 04-11-2014, 04:15 PM   #70 (permalink)
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Jay Glazer‏@JayGlazer·3m
Browns are matching the offer sheet to Alex Mack, will remain a Brown
Yep, quick match just as expected after Haslam's comments. I like it, but would draft a Center to groom for when he walks after the 2015 season.
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Old 04-11-2014, 08:32 PM   #71 (permalink)
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Cost the Jags a hotel night, a plane ticket, and a steak dinner. Let Cleveland deal with it when Haden, Thomas, Gordon, Cameron come due.
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Old 04-11-2014, 09:07 PM   #72 (permalink)
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Mack might be good, but this is bad deal.
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Old 04-11-2014, 09:18 PM   #73 (permalink)
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Mack might be good, but this is bad deal.
Oh, not to hear Cleveland tell it. The Jags did the negotiations with Mack and all they had to do was match.

Can't trade him; if you release him, he is counts as 8 million against the cap for the 3 years after 2; and he can walk with $26mil after aforementioned 2 years.

#factoryofsadness

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Old 04-12-2014, 11:06 AM   #74 (permalink)
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To further my point if its not clear enough, in the age of salary cap a teams highest paid players should not include a center. They should be the LT, QB, WR, CB, S, LB, CB, RB, G, then C. paying this much money for a C is swaying the books too off kilter to me. The leagues highest paid C as for salary goes like this. 9 players in the league make over 4 million a season, the rest make less. There are only 8 guys who make more then 6 million a year and five play on losing teams. There is a reason for that and its the salary cap.

Tying a team to 16 million guarenteed for 2 years on a center says to me the teams either got a bad repuatation and no one will play there or management are straight up idiots for running there business like that and should be much more involved in putting that money into other positions
Quote:
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Cost the Jags a hotel night, a plane ticket, and a steak dinner. Let Cleveland deal with it when Haden, Thomas, Gordon, Cameron come due.
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Mack might be good, but this is bad deal.
I'll add a quick opinion here in response to whether or not any team should pay a Center this much.

Ian Rapoport was on local radio talking about this deal and something he said really stuck out to me. It's that IF the Browns intend on drafting a rookie QB to be their starter of the future, they have at least another 4, maybe 5 years to use their "QB money" to overpay for other positions that might help them be more successful in the present. When the Packers have to pay Aaron Rodgers 22 mil a year, and the Browns are paying Manziel/Bridgewater/Bortles/Carr 4 Mil a year, that gives the Browns 18 mil to have fun with until those other contracts are due.

That being said, the Browns could pay Alex Mack the full 5 year deal while their QB is on a rookie salary, and then simply part with Mack in 2019 and replace him with a cheaper center.

The Browns are not "straight up idiots" for overpaying for positions when they have so many rookies locked into cheap contracts. When it comes time to pay the big boys, the Browns will stop overpaying for those positions. Until then, I applaud them for trying to put the best team on the field given their cap flexibility in the present time.
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Old 04-12-2014, 11:49 AM   #75 (permalink)
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I'll add a quick opinion here in response to whether or not any team should pay a Center this much.

Ian Rapoport was on local radio talking about this deal and something he said really stuck out to me. It's that IF the Browns intend on drafting a rookie QB to be their starter of the future, they have at least another 4, maybe 5 years to use their "QB money" to overpay for other positions that might help them be more successful in the present. When the Packers have to pay Aaron Rodgers 22 mil a year, and the Browns are paying Manziel/Bridgewater/Bortles/Carr 4 Mil a year, that gives the Browns 18 mil to have fun with until those other contracts are due.

That being said, the Browns could pay Alex Mack the full 5 year deal while their QB is on a rookie salary, and then simply part with Mack in 2019 and replace him with a cheaper center.

The Browns are not "straight up idiots" for overpaying for positions when they have so many rookies locked into cheap contracts. When it comes time to pay the big boys, the Browns will stop overpaying for those positions. Until then, I applaud them for trying to put the best team on the field given their cap flexibility in the present time.
Yes, but that money could be spent at more premium positions.

If anything, the Packers are trying to show how little a Center might actually matter to an offense. Rodgers has had Scott Wells, Jeff Saturday and EDS the last three seasons... with a new Center this season (probably J.C. Tretter). I can't help but feel that the Center is probably the least premium position on the OL that can be filled relatively cheaply in the draft or in FA (or by sliding a guard or tackle currently on the roster to that spot).

While I agree that "saving money" on a rookie QB will help, I can't help but feel that the extra money should probably go to locking up one of the other big names. Gordon is going to get paid, Haden is going to get paid. Front load their deals if you have the money to spend.

The Browns overpaid for a player... there is no other way to look at it.
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