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Old 04-09-2014, 04:43 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default Alex Mack - Signs with JAX for 5 years - Do the Browns match?

Title says it all. Reports are that Mack will sign a 5 year deal in Jacksonville by Friday and then the Browns will have 5 days to match (Mack is transition tagged)

So here is the question for everyone (I'm of course biased)

Do the Browns make a huge mistake letting him walk? Or is Jacksonville insane offering the type of money it's going to take to get the deal done?

For those that are interested -

Mack has a transition tag number of over 10 million. Meaning that Jacksonville will probably, for all intents and purposes, make Mack far and away the highest paid C in Football to get a deal done. They can front load it, back load it, etc... so it'll be interesting to see the actual structure - but at the end of the day Mack is going to be making in the 11-13 million a year range (think about that - for a Center)

Mack was Pro Bowl alternate. If you look at the analytics he's a very good pass blocker. He's pretty awful in the run game. He's still a Top 5 Center in the league probably.

I'm a Mack fan. I want him back. It's not my money and Cleveland has plenty of it.

At the same time if this offer is anything more than 11.5 million a year then I'd let him walk (basically 1 million over the tag I'd match). Center isn't worth that.

Thoughts?
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Old 04-09-2014, 04:45 PM   #2 (permalink)
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If you're paying a player 10 million a year, he needs to be one of a very small handful of reasons your team could win a championship.
Do you think Mack is that? I haven't watched him enough to have my own opinion.
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Old 04-09-2014, 04:46 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Cleveland should let him walk... no way I'd pay him that much.
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Old 04-09-2014, 04:51 PM   #4 (permalink)
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If you're paying a player 10 million a year, he needs to be one of a very small handful of reasons your team could win a championship.
Do you think Mack is that? I haven't watched him enough to have my own opinion.
No - he's not.

He's an above average Center that is dominant in one aspect of the game and a liability in the other. Playing next to Joe Thomas doesn't hurt either.

Doesn't mean I don't want him back. I'm not a bitter Cleveland fan saying "you were never good" - he's very good. There was a reason he made the Pro Bowl as an alternate.

He's also not worth the contract Jacksonville is going to be offering him (again without knowing the details). He isn't the best C in Football and he's going to be paid like it.

This about this - the current highest paid centers (ignoring Mack)

Cap Hit per Year - Ryan Kalil at 7.28 Million
Base Salary per Year - Scott Wells at 5.5 Million
Average Salary per Year (includes guarantees) - Ryan Kalil at 8.1 million. Nick Mangold at 7.7 million. Max Unger at 6.4 million

Alex Mack's transition tag is 10.039 million.

Which means that he'll be far and away (not even close really) the highest paid C in Football based on what Jacksonville will have to offer to make the Browns not match.
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Old 04-09-2014, 04:53 PM   #5 (permalink)
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No - he's not.

He's an above average Center that is dominant in one aspect of the game and a liability in the other. Playing next to Joe Thomas doesn't hurt either.

Doesn't mean I don't want him back. I'm not a bitter Cleveland fan saying "you were never good" - he's very good. There was a reason he made the Pro Bowl as an alternate.

He's also not worth the contract Jacksonville is going to be offering him (again without knowing the details). He isn't the best C in Football and he's going to be paid like it.

This about this - the current highest paid centers (ignoring Mack)

Cap Hit per Year - Ryan Kalil at 7.28 Million
Base Salary per Year - Scott Wells at 5.5 Million
Average Salary per Year (includes guarantees) - Ryan Kalil at 8.1 million. Nick Mangold at 7.7 million. Max Unger at 6.4 million

Alex Mack's transition tag is 10.039 million.

Which means that he'll be far and away (not even close really) the highest paid C in Football based on what Jacksonville will have to offer to make the Browns not match.
Then he's not worth it, and you should let him go. What if they offer him, say 5 year 42 million? That would make him the highest paid at his position, but not by much. Would you be comfortable with that?
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Old 04-09-2014, 04:55 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Then he's not worth it, and you should let him go. What if they offer him, say 5 year 42 million? That would make him the highest paid at his position, but not by much. Would you be comfortable with that?
If I'm Cleveland? Absolutely. I'd give him that to tie him up long term. I think that's about his market value in reality.

The transition tag was a 1 year deal to get a deal discussed - but if Jacksonville is beating that out then it must be major dollars.

I'm very curious how Jacksonville is going to structure the deal. I'd imagine it'll have to be somewhere in the 5 year 55 million dollar range with in front loaded to screw the Browns cap.

That's the biggest hiccup for Cleveland. They have plenty of $$ to spend on Mack but if Jacksonville structures the bonus it could mess with cap space because they still have to sign Haden, Cameron, Taylor, Gordon etc...
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Old 04-09-2014, 04:58 PM   #7 (permalink)
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If I'm Cleveland? Absolutely. I'd give him that to tie him up long term. I think that's about his market value in reality.

The transition tag was a 1 year deal to get a deal discussed - but if Jacksonville is beating that out then it must be major dollars.

I'm very curious how Jacksonville is going to structure the deal. I'd imagine it'll have to be somewhere in the 5 year 55 million dollar range with in front loaded to screw the Browns cap.

That's the biggest hiccup for Cleveland. They have plenty of $$ to spend on Mack but if Jacksonville structures the bonus it could mess with cap space because they still have to sign Haden, Cameron, Taylor, Gordon etc...
The JAX contract doesn't have to be huge. Maybe they're just taking a shot, and for exactly the reason you listed at the end, think the Browns won't commit to a pricey long term deal, even if it's reasonable.
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Old 04-09-2014, 04:58 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Where are the analytics which show how good of a pass blocker he is versus a run blocker? Those sound interesting to look at.
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Old 04-09-2014, 04:59 PM   #9 (permalink)
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The JAX contract doesn't have to be huge. Maybe they're just taking a shot, and for exactly the reason you listed at the end, think the Browns won't commit to a pricey long term deal, even if it's reasonable.
Don't think that'd fly with Mack. If it's not significant dollars he'd be better off taking the transition tag at 10 million and becoming an UFA next year. I'd have to imagine JAX is offering more than 10 million per to get him to turn down the tag.

I could be dead wrong. I'm really curious about it.
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Old 04-09-2014, 05:01 PM   #10 (permalink)
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My favorite part of twitter is happening right now when it's always about the team "losing" the player.

Adam Schefter ‏ @ AdamSchefter27s
Cleveland either can lose it's Pro-Bowl C Alex Mack for nothing or absorb a painful contract that will impact Browns elsewhere.

As if Jacksonville will be all sunshine and rainbows if they have to absorb a painful contract that at some point will impact them elsewhere (even if it's not as painful per se depending on how they structure it)
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Old 04-09-2014, 05:06 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Paying a Center that much money probably isn't the most efficient use of cap space. On the other hand, the Cap is projected to grow 20-30million over the next two to three years, so the high number isn't going to be as high as it seems right this moment (a lot of guys are going to get "wtf?" contracts in these next couple years).

One of Mack's great strengths is that he has started 119 straight games, going back to his college days. If you're going to pay a guy, it's good to know he has a history of not missing games.
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Old 04-09-2014, 05:07 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Mack is an extremely talented player and probably the best C in the league, but interior linemen shouldn't take up 1/13th of your cap space.
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Old 04-09-2014, 05:08 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Paying a Center that much money probably isn't the most efficient use of cap space. On the other hand, the Cap is projected to grow 20-30million over the next two to three years, so the high number isn't going to be as high as it seems right this moment (a lot of guys are going to get "wtf?" contracts in these next couple years).

One of Mack's great strengths is that he has started 119 straight games, going back to his college days. If you're going to pay a guy, it's good to know he has a history of not missing games.
Very true.

And a positive side for Cleveland (as obviously I'm addressing this from their perspective) is that if the contract is something they'll match then they've locked him up long term and they don't have to worry about it going forward.

Won't know much I suppose until the details come out.

I don't see Haslam going down without a fight.
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Old 04-09-2014, 05:18 PM   #14 (permalink)
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If Jacksonville gets this done then it's has to be a foregone conclusion that they are taking Manziel or Bortles at #3 right? You don't spend this kind of $$ on your OLine to protect Chad Henne.
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Old 04-09-2014, 05:21 PM   #15 (permalink)
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If Jacksonville gets this done then it's has to be a foregone conclusion that they are taking Manziel or Bortles at #3 right? You don't spend this kind of $$ on your OLine to protect Chad Henne.
The JAX GM seems hell-bent on not drafting a QB of the future so he doesn't have to marry his job stability to a player.
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Old 04-09-2014, 05:23 PM   #16 (permalink)
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The JAX GM seems hell-bent on not drafting a QB of the future so he doesn't have to marry his job stability to a player.
True - but I just don't see the point of making Mack the highest paid C in Football, along with signing Zane Beadles to huge money, if you aren't going to put a QB behind them.

Interesting stuff for sure.
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Old 04-09-2014, 05:27 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Of course he wants to go to Florida, anyone else would as well. See ya
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Old 04-09-2014, 05:31 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Of course he wants to go to Florida, anyone else would as well. See ya
I love Mike Polk. Thanks for that. His album is really good. Pick it up if you haven't. I can burn you a copy if you'd like.

Him wanting to go to Florida would be relevant if he was an UFA. You sound like Schefter on twitter talking about tax rates between Ohio and Florida as if that makes one bit of difference - it doesn't - since he isn't unrestricted.

They'll either match or they won't. Right of first refusal was the entire point of the tag.
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Old 04-09-2014, 05:32 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Mack is an extremely talented player and probably the best C in the league, but interior linemen shouldn't take up 1/13th of your cap space.
This.

He is looking for tackle money at a non premium position. I guess if Jax is "smart" enough to pay it, more power to him.
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Old 04-09-2014, 05:36 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Word on the radio (coming from Schefter supposedly but I can't find anything from him specifically) is that Jacksonville is offering a 20 million 1 year guarantee with an opt out as part of the 5 year deal.

Which is insane if true. It's entirely possible it's not true. There haven't been any confirmed details that I've seen.

Mack and his agent would take that, Cleveland wouldn't match, and they'd opt out after one year in Jacksonville to be a UFA.

His agent isn't an idiot. Jacksonville would be the dumbest team in Football to allow him to opt out after one year of collecting guaranteed money assuming he'll come back on some sort of handshake agreement.

That's playing with fire.
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Old 04-09-2014, 05:42 PM   #21 (permalink)
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I love Mike Polk. Thanks for that. His album is really good. Pick it up if you haven't. I can burn you a copy if you'd like.

Him wanting to go to Florida would be relevant if he was an UFA. You sound like Schefter on twitter talking about tax rates between Ohio and Florida as if that makes one bit of difference - it doesn't - since he isn't unrestricted.

They'll either match or they won't. Right of first refusal was the entire point of the tag.
How is this not relevant? Of course it is. The man is out to get paid like he should be doing and the same contract he signs in Ohio and Florida are not going to give him the same amount of money. The numbers don't change but Uncle Sam is going to take more in Ohio leaving less for him. That doesn't change because of his tag status

My point and Shefters point is knowing this, you don't have to wonder why he wants to go there and leave the Browns. Both teams are flaming garbage but if you had to pick between turds Jacksonville is better.

As for the Browns should they? The Browns should up and move to California, the Browns should disband and can all of the management, there is a lot of things the Browns "should" do. Holding a man hostage that has come out saying he wants out of town is not one of them. Transition tag or not. Its bad business
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Old 04-09-2014, 05:46 PM   #22 (permalink)
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How is this not relevant? Of course it is. The man is out to get paid like he should be doing and the same contract he signs in Ohio and Florida are not going to give him the same amount of money. The numbers don't change but Uncle Sam is going to take more in Ohio leaving less for him. That doesn't change because of his tag status

My point and Shefters point is knowing this, you don't have to wonder why he wants to go there and leave the Browns. Both teams are flaming garbage but if you had to pick between turds Jacksonville is better.

As for the Browns should they? The Browns should up and move to California, the Browns should disband and can all of the management, there is a lot of things the Browns "should" do. Holding a man hostage that has come out saying he wants out of town is not one of them. Transition tag or not. Its bad business
If the Browns didn't have the right to match it would be relevant. The Jaguars can't offer some "tax free" money in their contract. The contract is what it is. Jacksonville isn't going to overpay (unless their idiots) just because Mack gets it tax free on his personal end. You made my point for me. It's all on Mack and his personal return. The contract is what it is. The State tax rate is irrelevant to whether the Browns match.

The state tax is only relevant if someone is unrestricted and comparing deals. If LeBron was comparing Ohio money to Florida money it'd be relevant. He had a choice of where he wanted to play. Mack isn't comparing deals. He doesn't have a true "choice" - The Browns are the only ones comparing things. They have the choice whether they want Mack back or not. Jacksonville could offer him 50 million tax free for the next 5 years. If the Browns want to pay him 50 million over 5 years then guess what - he's paying Ohio taxes as a Cleveland Brown.
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Old 04-09-2014, 05:47 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Both teams are flaming garbage but if you had to pick between turds Jacksonville is better.
If I had to pick? I would choose Cleveland in a heartbeat. All they need is a solid QB. Hell if Hoyer had not gotten injured....
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Old 04-09-2014, 05:51 PM   #24 (permalink)
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How is this not relevant? Of course it is. The man is out to get paid like he should be doing and the same contract he signs in Ohio and Florida are not going to give him the same amount of money. The numbers don't change but Uncle Sam is going to take more in Ohio leaving less for him. That doesn't change because of his tag status

My point and Shefters point is knowing this, you don't have to wonder why he wants to go there and leave the Browns. Both teams are flaming garbage but if you had to pick between turds Jacksonville is better.

As for the Browns should they? The Browns should up and move to California, the Browns should disband and can all of the management, there is a lot of things the Browns "should" do. Holding a man hostage that has come out saying he wants out of town is not one of them. Transition tag or not. Its bad business
Flaming garbage, and yet where would Washington pick if they kept their first round pick? Oh wait, before both of them! Great insight as usual!
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Old 04-09-2014, 05:54 PM   #25 (permalink)
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IF (and it's a big IF - still no official details) this is true then Jacksonville has lost their marbles.

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10-11 million and 30 million guaranteed? I wouldn't offer any center in the league that type of deal.

Lane is the Insider for the Orange and Brown report - if he tweeted this then he heard it from some credible people - doesn't mean those people are right of course.

For comparisons sake when Ryan Kalil signed he got 49 million over 6 years with 18 million guaranteed. Mack would be getting around 50+ million over 5 years with 30 million guaranteed.

He can enjoy living in Jacksonville if they really offered him something like that
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