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Old 11-12-2011, 10:28 PM   #26 (permalink)
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Please refer to my first post

Last edited by gotmonte; 11-14-2011 at 09:08 PM.
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Old 11-13-2011, 11:34 AM   #27 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by go_steelers07 View Post
counting cards isn't illegal as long as the player doesn't use any external device to aid in the counting.
He never said it was illegal, but it is frowned upon and it WILL get you kicked out of a casino for trying to beat the system and better your odds.

Just like trying to "search" or "cherry-pick" from a case of cards. Not illegal, but frowned upon within the hobby and will get you blasted for trying to beat the system to better your odds.
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Old 11-13-2011, 03:46 PM   #28 (permalink)
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Please refer to my first post

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Old 11-13-2011, 04:23 PM   #29 (permalink)
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You are essentially trying to beat the odds of a lottery with an edge. Thats known as cheating.

When you go into a casino and count cards you get thrown out.
When you buy stocks of a company knowing full well they are about to make big news because someone inside told you, you get thrown in jail for insider trading.

When you knowingly try and cheat, take short cuts and essentially trying to beat the odds on a chance/lottery/oppurtunity that is out there to be fair chance for all, you are cheating. Thats the factual side.

Here is the moral side..

How would feel if someone sold you a limp case full of boxes that had absolutely no chance of hitting anything? IM pretty sure you wouldnt buy it. This is why they keep it all chance/lottery with no fixed way of figuring it out.
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He never said it was illegal, but it is frowned upon and it WILL get you kicked out of a casino for trying to beat the system and better your odds.Just like trying to "search" or "cherry-pick" from a case of cards. Not illegal, but frowned upon within the hobby and will get you blasted for trying to beat the system to better your odds.
he said cheating, and counting cards isn't cheating. also, in Atlantic City, casinos are not allowed to throw you out for suspected card counting..... only if they catch you using a counting device or another person to gain the advantage. (Uston v. Resorts International Hotel Inc., 445 A.2d 370 N.J. 1982)
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Old 11-13-2011, 10:50 PM   #30 (permalink)
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Old 11-14-2011, 02:57 AM   #31 (permalink)
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Yeah I mean I hope for this guys case he just educates himself about cards a bit. Seems like he is new to collecting but his attitude around here needs an adjustment and needs to get educated before making posts.
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Old 11-14-2011, 03:20 AM   #32 (permalink)
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Gotmonte is not a great person to deal with on this board. He obviously is showing his colors in this post. He hada Guy Lafleur Parkhurst auto for sale in which I made an offer that he accepted. I hadn't looked yet and I within an hour he backs out saying I didn't respond and that he's gonna list it on ebay. It was obvious he found out the card was worth more than he thought and backed out. I'm done dealing with him and i'm not surprised he's been suspended.
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Old 11-14-2011, 09:50 AM   #33 (permalink)
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Ok last point I want to bring up and then we can just drop it.

Do you think the people who buy the Lottery novels/books that give key clues as to what the numbers keep coming out like? Take for instance the number 4. The number 4 has come up historically wedensday, friday for 5 weeks now. So they tell you you have a better probability at picking the number 4 on those days. The books get VERY detailed. Its the same principle in that you are trying to figure out the system to better your chances at winning. Now, if I was selling boxes off or cases, than I can see the uproar over me trying to "find the gems" and then sell off the crap and make it seem like I didnt find the "gems" yet. That would be a jerk thing to do.

Now for the comments about "The other people who buy boxes from the same case its not fair to them". Well actually here is my thought on that. Is it fair that some people figure out the lottery system (and yes there are people who buy those books and study and study to figure out the recurring numebrs) while you just drop a dollar and pick "quick pick"? Maybe not in your eyes. But in my eyes its called due diligance. You have to be as educated as you can be in any hobby/collecting/sport that you can be. Me asking if there was a recurring box position (just like a recurring number in the lottery picks) is not a crime, is not unfair either. If the next man who is offered to pick which ever box he wants he can do the same thing as I did. Pick based on laws of average and probabilites. I am not weighing the boxes, pack feeling, and not metal detecting. If you do that than it is an unfair advantage cause you know what boxes are good. I was just asking if anyone knew a different way to better my odds without doing that.

If you dont like me asking these questions, thats your perogative. But I expect you to scream at the old lady and old man who buy the lottery number books and study that for months to figure out their best chance at the lottery and screwing you out of a share of the lottery.

Just sayin'
That is just a poor analogy if you can even consider that an analogy...!! Lottery is random... Card packing (in boxes or in case might not)... We all know that with Topps (like Chrome football) the one pack with the auto in the boxes are usually in the same place for the entire case. And that is why all my LCS's mix up the packs with in a box and boxes within a case to avoid people like you from "searching".

You are right in one thing, there is no point to discuss this any longer... you believe what you are doing is morally correct... but Karma is a B--ch...
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Old 11-14-2011, 11:14 AM   #34 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Sly View Post
He never said it was illegal, but it is frowned upon and it WILL get you kicked out of a casino for trying to beat the system and better your odds.

Just like trying to "search" or "cherry-pick" from a case of cards. Not illegal, but frowned upon within the hobby and will get you blasted for trying to beat the system to better your odds.
Kinda like masturbating on an airplane?
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Old 11-14-2011, 11:41 AM   #35 (permalink)
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yea, his "analogy" was awful. in a lottery, two people can pick the same numbers whether or not they have done "due diligance"...if this guy always gets first pick in a fresh case and he knew where to find the best box then he would take it every time and the people after him would be stuck with worse boxes. he says that the next person after him can pick a box based on "laws of averages and probabilities" but that wont work when this guy has already picked the best box. anyway, i guess he just doesnt understand that the spirit of the hobby is about the randomness (whether you are buying loose packs, individual boxes or even choosing one full case over another). people may choose certain ones because of superstition...or they just leave it up to complete randomness. which is how it should be. packsearchers dont leave it up to randomness, they shift the odds in their favor...which is why people hate them for it. this guy is trying to do the same thing with boxes out of a case (instead of packs out of a box)...he is trying to shift the odds in his favor by "figuring out" which box is the best to buy. he needs to just stick to picking randomly and be happy when he hits something good and just accept it when he doesnt.
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Old 11-14-2011, 12:14 PM   #36 (permalink)
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thanks a lot bin laden

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Kinda like masturbating on an airplane?
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Old 11-14-2011, 12:17 PM   #37 (permalink)
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Honestly, it does not matter where in the case you get your box. I bought two boxes of 10/11 Panini Zenith hockey and each box was on the discount pile for only 50 bucks. I had no pick of the litter so to speak. One box was a hot box and the Rip it card had a PK Subban autograph inside of it. The other box was not a hot box but the Rip it Card had a Jordan Ebberle autograph inside of it. So in the end each box was excellent. Its not about where the box is. It is about how hot your hand is in the pulling of items. I have been on a hot streak as of late so I am gettin gbetter cards
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Old 11-14-2011, 12:20 PM   #38 (permalink)
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by the way why are you crying about being answered. grow up
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Old 11-14-2011, 01:58 PM   #39 (permalink)
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he said cheating, and counting cards isn't cheating. also, in Atlantic City, casinos are not allowed to throw you out for suspected card counting..... only if they catch you using a counting device or another person to gain the advantage. (Uston v. Resorts International Hotel Inc., 445 A.2d 370 N.J. 1982)
I think counting cards is a form of cheating. I never said it was ilegal. I said you would be thrown out of a casino if they thought you were.

As for AC, they wont throw you. They will just deny you table play. So you can sit around and play slots, but you cant hit the table for some Black "John". (not jack, but john)
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Old 11-14-2011, 04:02 PM   #40 (permalink)
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Gotmonte is not a great person to deal with on this board. He obviously is showing his colors in this post. He hada Guy Lafleur Parkhurst auto for sale in which I made an offer that he accepted. I hadn't looked yet and I within an hour he backs out saying I didn't respond and that he's gonna list it on ebay. It was obvious he found out the card was worth more than he thought and backed out. I'm done dealing with him and i'm not surprised he's been suspended.
Agreed! I made an offer on a base Ackley from Tier One (a very fair one, that included the acronym PWE, and a clause I offered that said I wouldn't ask for a refund if the card got mangled by the USPS), he accepted, then progressed to ask me where I lived (fine, in most cases). I told him my ship-to would come up when I paid. That wasn't enough, apparently, he asked again. I told him to forget about it, cause he clearly couldn't see that my profile says "Central Valley, CA."

Moral of the story, put him on ignore and move on with your daily life.
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Old 11-14-2011, 09:08 PM   #41 (permalink)
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I UPDATED THIS THREAD. PLEASE RE-READ MY ORIGINAL POST. THANK YOU.
Sincerely,

Steve
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Old 11-14-2011, 09:42 PM   #42 (permalink)
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In the "Meet And Greet" forum I made a sincere appology to the Blowoutcards members and staff about this issue and others. If you dont feel like searching for it, thats ok. I copied it for you

Here is what I wrote:

Hi guys. I wanted to come onto Blowoutcards.com/forums and give a sincere appology to the rest of you guys. Let me explain..

I am new the card and memorabilia collecting. I started collecting around april of last year. Through this time I have spent so much money I dont even know which way to turn (who hasnt really?!). I recently became a board member and I think I brushed some people wrongly. Thats not my nature at all.

I am a sincere person. I try my best to help everyone out no matter if you bit my hand previously. I recently made a thread asking if there was a certain spot a company would put the "good" box in a case. I explained the reason I was asking was because a local shop near my house always opens cases and tells me to take whichever box I wanted (I am paying for the box of course) and I just wanted to better my chances at picking the better of the lot. I did not realize this would be "cheating" and looked down upon. I had a hard time wrapping my head around the concept that people thought I was trying to defraud someone. I am the furthest thing from that. So I spiritedly tried to defend myself but as the night went on and I slept on it some more, I came to the realization what others were trying to explain to me. It IS cheating even if i am not reselling the box or a case. I dont sell boxes or cases and never will but thats not the point. It would be taking away from the next guy and THATS what I wasnt realizing. I do now though. I appologize for anyone I argued with. Sincerely.

I would also like to bring up another issue I came across and want to appologize about. I had a PM conversation with someone about a card I was selling. I am new to this so I really dont know what things are worth or whatnot. Anyways, the person offers me a price on a card I was considering selling. At first it seemed like a decent price. I PM'ed him/her and said depending on your location for shipping purposes I would except that deal. Within an hour or less I had not received a message back and I went on to ebay to find out the card sold for much more than the person had offered me. Since they did not respond to me yet and TECHNICALLY I didnt agree cause I wasnt sure about the shipping issue, I immediately sent a message to the person and said I was going to put the card on ebay and if they wanted to, they were more than able to bid on the item. A little while past and they responded to me quite bluntly and upset. They said I was reneg'ing on the deal. I tried to explain to them that technically I did not except the deal cause I wasnt sure if i was shipping the card to United States or it could have been to Australia for all I knew. I also tried to point out that they did not respond and I went another direction. Well, needless to say the person was not happy with me at all. I felt that I was within my right to go the opposite direction because I said I would except the deal depending on the shipping location. An hour passed and no answer and I immediately PM'ed back and told them I was going another direction.
Well, I would like to appologize to THAT individual as well. They seemed very upset and I didnt come on this site to anger anyone. Thats not my intention and it will never BE my attention. So as a olive branch to the Blowoutcards.com/forums crew, from my family to yours, I appologize for the recent actions and I look forward to learning from you and your staff about this great hobby and I cant wait to share my cards with you and see your cards as well.

I am sincere in my appologies and will prove it to you in my posts from here on out.

Sincerely,

Steve
Steve,
I would be the first one to welcome you back... I am glad you see our point, we are not the cardboard police, but we do our best to educate everyone that come to this board (myself included)... no need to be sorry, just keep an open mind, and just know that when the majority of people doesn't see it your way...chances are that you were wrong... (unless you are the next messiah j/k)...

I hope you the best of luck picking your boxes...
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Old 11-14-2011, 09:49 PM   #43 (permalink)
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Thank you VERY much. And youre right. When most dont see it your way, usually you need to rethink your thought process.

Not a yes man. But not here to go against the grain neither. Especially in a hobby I am not very educated in at the moment.
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Old 11-15-2011, 06:05 PM   #44 (permalink)
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Why not let your original words in this post stand? Got something to hide? I was ready to give you the benefit of the doubt (based on your apology thread) until seeing this thread. Now I am not quite so sure that you are being unfairly treated.

Case searching and renegging on deals are not real popular things on these boards.

Sorry.

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Please refer to my first post
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Old 11-15-2011, 06:53 PM   #45 (permalink)
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Agreed! I made an offer on a base Ackley from Tier One (a very fair one, that included the acronym PWE, and a clause I offered that said I wouldn't ask for a refund if the card got mangled by the USPS), he accepted, then progressed to ask me where I lived (fine, in most cases). I told him my ship-to would come up when I paid. That wasn't enough, apparently, he asked again. I told him to forget about it, cause he clearly couldn't see that my profile says "Central Valley, CA."

Moral of the story, put him on ignore and move on with your daily life.
I asked you WHERE YOU LIVE. You refused to tell me. Said it would come up when you pay. I did not NOT agree to that. I agreed to ship if I knew Where i was shipping to.

You acted like a complete jerk and was VERY suspect when you wouldnt tell me your address



LET ME ASK THE BOARD THIS QUESTION SINCE I SEEM TO BE IN THE LIMELIGHT UNJUSTLY:

IF YOU AGREED TO SELL A CARD TO SOMEONE THROUGH PM AND THEY WANTED THE PRICE TO INCLUDE SHIPPING AND YOU SAY OK DEPENDING ON WHERE YOU LIVE. THEY THEN SAY WHEN YOU GET MY PAYPAL YOU WILL SEE WHERE I LIVE. DOES THAT NOT SOUND VERY SHADY TO YOU? THATS EXACTLY WHAT HAPPENED TO ME ON THE ABOVE COMPLAINER. So was I supposedto just blanketly say NO PROBLEM, SEND ME YOUR MONEY and I may have to ship this card to china (meantime the price we agreed on was also included with shipping.. so the shipping information WAS VERY PERTINENT)

I think it is pretty shady when someone wont tell you where you have to ship something when I have to pay for the shipping. They want to get you locked into the deal with a payment being made and then I am stuck eating this big shipping price. Thats not good business. That is not even proper etiquette.

Last edited by gotmonte; 11-15-2011 at 07:06 PM.
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Old 11-15-2011, 07:43 PM   #46 (permalink)
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I asked you WHERE YOU LIVE. You refused to tell me. Said it would come up when you pay. I did not NOT agree to that. I agreed to ship if I knew Where i was shipping to.

You acted like a complete jerk and was VERY suspect when you wouldnt tell me your address



LET ME ASK THE BOARD THIS QUESTION SINCE I SEEM TO BE IN THE LIMELIGHT UNJUSTLY:

IF YOU AGREED TO SELL A CARD TO SOMEONE THROUGH PM AND THEY WANTED THE PRICE TO INCLUDE SHIPPING AND YOU SAY OK DEPENDING ON WHERE YOU LIVE. THEY THEN SAY WHEN YOU GET MY PAYPAL YOU WILL SEE WHERE I LIVE. DOES THAT NOT SOUND VERY SHADY TO YOU? THATS EXACTLY WHAT HAPPENED TO ME ON THE ABOVE COMPLAINER. So was I supposedto just blanketly say NO PROBLEM, SEND ME YOUR MONEY and I may have to ship this card to china (meantime the price we agreed on was also included with shipping.. so the shipping information WAS VERY PERTINENT)

I think it is pretty shady when someone wont tell you where you have to ship something when I have to pay for the shipping. They want to get you locked into the deal with a payment being made and then I am stuck eating this big shipping price. Thats not good business. That is not even proper etiquette.
Honestly, it really doesn't sound the least bit shady. His profile here says "California", and I imagine he let you know his general area of the globe, or where you could find it. Seems like you didn't really know what you were doing.
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Old 11-15-2011, 07:49 PM   #47 (permalink)
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as long as no money changed hands, you are free to do want you want with your cards.
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Old 11-15-2011, 09:58 PM   #48 (permalink)
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I didnt look at he profile. Why would someone NOT tell you their location and when you ask they say "OH FORGET IT.. ITS TOO MUCH TROUBLE FOR A 4 DOLLAR CARD".
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Old 11-16-2011, 02:44 AM   #49 (permalink)
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dont you think you are a LITTLE BIT overreacted over this situation ??

did you make any effort to find out yourself ?? every time he pm'ed you, his user id, w/ his LOCATION, is listed, just like when you posted in this thread ....

IMHO, you are just a drama queen ....
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Old 11-16-2011, 07:36 AM   #50 (permalink)
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+1 to the drama queen reference

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IMHO, you are just a drama queen ....
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