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Old 01-04-2012, 09:21 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Default Jimmy Howard

in 05 I happened to pull a /25 spectrum Jimmy Howard jersey auto from spx. Do you guys think he will ever become a great one, or has his value hit a ceiling? Either way how much do you think something like this should list for?
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Old 01-04-2012, 09:27 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Red Wings goalies never get the respect they deserve (i.e. Osgood).

Only the ones who played elsewhere and had success on other teams (i.e. Vernon, Hasek).

Ps: Datsyuk is the best player in the NHL
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Old 01-04-2012, 09:28 AM   #3 (permalink)
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outside of Crosby and Ovechkin, Lundqvist seems to be the next highest rookie out of the 05-06 class and his SPX RCs /25 will do about $200 on average. for Howard, i'd guess-timate maybe $50-75 as the top of the range if you can find the right collectors. it would seem in line as the highest selling item for Howard on ebay is a 1/1 at $65.

also of note, if you look up "05-06 spx /25" a bunch of rookie spectrums /25 have ended with no bids and a start of $24.99.
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Old 01-04-2012, 10:09 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Osgood was one of the more overrated goalies I can remember. Howard is having a very good season but he was pretty sporadic last year. If he puts together a few more good seasons I think the value would go up, so at this point it doesn't hurt anything to hold onto it.
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Old 01-04-2012, 10:12 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Osgood was one of the more overrated goalies I can remember. Howard is having a very good season but he was pretty sporadic last year. If he puts together a few more good seasons I think the value would go up, so at this point it doesn't hurt anything to hold onto it.
True, I never liked goalies who won 400 times and had a few cups, they stink

Howard may be the best goalie so far. But not in the hobby world. I'd hold on until maybe he wins a cup or veniza.
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Old 01-04-2012, 10:15 PM   #6 (permalink)
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True, I never liked goalies who won 400 times and had a few cups, they stink

Howard may be the best goalie so far. But not in the hobby world. I'd hold on until maybe he wins a cup or veniza.

Osgood was a beneficiary of a great franchise and outstanding teams. 400 wins or not, his career save % is barely over .900 and he was never a lockdown goalie. Hell, Detroit could have won even more cups if they had an above average goalie.
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Old 01-04-2012, 10:17 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Osgood was a beneficiary of a great franchise and outstanding teams. 400 wins or not, his career save % is barely over .900 and he was never a lockdown goalie. Hell, Detroit could have won even more cups if they had an above average goalie.
So was every other goalie. Brodeur? Roy? They had great teams. Everyone knows the team aspect isn't a good excuse. His stats aren't the best, but he won, a lot. Calling someone with 400 wins and 3 cups once of the most overrated goalies ever is laughable. Osgood was the reason they won the cup in 08, and made it to the final in 09.
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Old 01-04-2012, 10:26 PM   #8 (permalink)
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So was every other goalie. Brodeur? Roy? They had great teams. Everyone knows the team aspect isn't a good excuse. His stats aren't the best, but he won, a lot. Calling someone with 400 wins and 3 cups once of the most overrated goalies ever is laughable. Osgood was the reason they won the cup in 08, and made it to the final in 09.
The fact that you are using wins and Cups to argue how good he was pretty much makes my point for me. He has no noteworthy peripheral stats, in my mind that is part of what makes him overrated. Cup wins are irrelevant (See: Ray Emery?), and his overall stats were lackluster.

Brodeur and Roy have better career numbers and their standout seasons were far more impressive.
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Old 01-04-2012, 10:30 PM   #9 (permalink)
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The fact that you are using wins and Cups to argue how good he was pretty much makes my point for me. He has no noteworthy peripheral stats, in my mind that is part of what makes him overrated. Cup wins are irrelevant (See: Ray Emery?), and his overall stats were lackluster.

Brodeur and Roy have better career numbers and their standout seasons were far more impressive.
Emery didn't actually win a Cup. 400 wins is impressive. Only 9 goalies ever have done it. You can't be one of the most overrated goalies every with 400 wins and 3 cups. But overrated means they were thought of highly. Osgood never was. He was just thought of some average goalie who just happened to get 400 wins.
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Old 01-04-2012, 10:41 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Emery didn't actually win a Cup. 400 wins is impressive. Only 9 goalies ever have done it. You can't be one of the most overrated goalies every with 400 wins and 3 cups. But overrated means they were thought of highly. Osgood never was. He was just thought of some average goalie who just happened to get 400 wins.
The whole reason I went off on this tangent is because earlier in the thread someone said something to the effect of "Red Wings Goalies never get enough respect" referring to Osgood. If you don't think he was highly thought of then I suppose this back and forth is irrelevant and probably more aimed at those who think he should have been held in the same company as your Brodeurs and Roys.
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Old 01-04-2012, 11:26 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Hate to impose real life on such conversations but Howard's wife had their first baby earlier this season. IMO that is always going to have an effect on a person's home and professional life. As a collector with a large Howard PC yes I do believe he will continue to improve and become one of the best in the league. BUT I'm giving him a pass for this season. A good but certainly not great team in front of him and major changes in his personal life, I'm not expecting him to take that next step this season.

That said I found it interesting he signed such a reasonable contract. Home town discount or didn't he feel he was able to get more on the open market?
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Old 01-05-2012, 09:42 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Hate to impose real life on such conversations but Howard's wife had their first baby earlier this season. IMO that is always going to have an effect on a person's home and professional life. As a collector with a large Howard PC yes I do believe he will continue to improve and become one of the best in the league. BUT I'm giving him a pass for this season. A good but certainly not great team in front of him and major changes in his personal life, I'm not expecting him to take that next step this season.

That said I found it interesting he signed such a reasonable contract. Home town discount or didn't he feel he was able to get more on the open market?
giving him a pass? this is his best season yet. and you're right, there is a good but not great team in front of him this year and he's still got amazing numbers and piling on the wins. he may be a rookie from 05-06 but he's developed quite nicely to the point where he's actually carrying Detroit on a lot of nights. especially when the injury bug hits through the team (not talking this year specifically).

as for the contracts, detroit always seems to be able to get their players to sign to decent contracts. they really seem to buy into that team mentality.
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Old 01-05-2012, 08:32 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Hate to impose real life on such conversations but Howard's wife had their first baby earlier this season. IMO that is always going to have an effect on a person's home and professional life. As a collector with a large Howard PC yes I do believe he will continue to improve and become one of the best in the league. BUT I'm giving him a pass for this season. A good but certainly not great team in front of him and major changes in his personal life, I'm not expecting him to take that next step this season.

That said I found it interesting he signed such a reasonable contract. Home town discount or didn't he feel he was able to get more on the open market?
Last I checked he was allowing something like 1.99 goals per game.
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Old 01-05-2012, 08:37 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Emery didn't actually win a Cup. 400 wins is impressive. Only 9 goalies ever have done it. You can't be one of the most overrated goalies every with 400 wins and 3 cups. But overrated means they were thought of highly. Osgood never was. He was just thought of some average goalie who just happened to get 400 wins.
Osgood was an above average goalie. Not a Hall of Famer.

His best season believe it or not was on Long Island, in 2001-02 when he went 32-25-6 with a 2.5 GAA and a .910 pct. Should have been a Vezina candidate but that was the year Jose Theodore went off with a .930 pct.

Anyway Jim Howard is a good keeper, I think the Osgood comparison is a fair one.
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Old 01-06-2012, 10:40 AM   #15 (permalink)
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The fact that you are using wins and Cups to argue how good he was pretty much makes my point for me. He has no noteworthy peripheral stats, in my mind that is part of what makes him overrated. Cup wins are irrelevant (See: Ray Emery?), and his overall stats were lackluster.

Brodeur and Roy have better career numbers and their standout seasons were far more impressive.
Really, have you compaired?

Roy GAA 2.54
Osgood GAA 2.49

Roy Save % .910
Osgood Save % 9.05

Roy SO 66
Osgood SO 50

Then we can go Playoff numbers

Roy GAA 2.30
Osgood GAA 2.09

Roy Save % .918
Osgood Save % .916

Roy SO 23
Osgood SO 15

Besides wins, which you said dont count, Roy and Osgood have very similar career numbers, so continue on with your hate, but you don't have any real stats to back it up.
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Old 01-06-2012, 07:23 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Really, have you compaired?

Roy GAA 2.54
Osgood GAA 2.49

Roy Save % .910
Osgood Save % 9.05

Roy SO 66
Osgood SO 50

Then we can go Playoff numbers

Roy GAA 2.30
Osgood GAA 2.09

Roy Save % .918
Osgood Save % .916

Roy SO 23
Osgood SO 15

Besides wins, which you said dont count, Roy and Osgood have very similar career numbers, so continue on with your hate, but you don't have any real stats to back it up.
Roy had several very underwhelming seasons, had 3 where he averaged over 3 goals per game. The difference is when he had his good seasons, they were REALLY good (1.94 GAA???). He also, like alot of other goalies, really came into his own in the second half of his career. Osgood never had a season that jumps out at you; I will give you that he was consistent throughout his career. But you can't just simply look at overall career numbers and conclude that the two are in the same ballpark.
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Old 01-06-2012, 07:40 PM   #17 (permalink)
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2007-08 he had a damn good year, and was a beast in the playoffs, 1.55 GAA and a .930 save %. Is he top ten all time, no, but he was way more than an average goailie. And in no way is he overrated.
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