Flyers vs Pens Series Discussion Thread

[WilsonValdez]

Originally Posted by MrSnyder

As a half season ticket plan holder I'll say that both teams are guilty of playing like goons at variouls levels throughout the series. I also think that Asham is the only player that should get suspended for the debauchery in game 3. The Flyers players weren't angels either... While this series is action packed, entertaining, and generating attention, it's not the kind of attention that hockey wants to have to attrack more fans. Furthermore, I'd like the NHL to take a serious look at the refs calling the playoffs. Also watching the Caps series closely the refs have been horrible across the board. Aren't these guys the best of the best? IMHO

I would also be curious to know when the flyers have been playing like goons? Neal absolutely deserves to get suspended; I don't know how any Pens fan can defend his clear intent (at the end of the game, TWICE).

Try to separate yourself from what you want to rationalize the Pens behavior and just look at it objectively. The flyers haven't done anything anywhere near the level of the Pens...it's not even close.

[avjp87]

Scenes From An Execution: Here's All 17 Goals Marc-Andre Fleury's Allowed To The Flyers This Series

[solt0131]

Neal most likely should get 3 games and Asham should get 5 games. Their hearings are tomorrow and the suspensions will be put down then.

[BAMBAM]

Originally Posted by MrSnyder

As a half season ticket plan holder I'll say that both teams are guilty of playing like goons at variouls levels throughout the series. I also think that Asham is the only player that should get suspended for the debauchery in game 3. The Flyers players weren't angels either...

WTF have you been watching ? Maybe you should get the full season plan so you understand the game better ? It's on thing to give a glove to face or a cross check a guy in the chest who is digging away in front of the net because that is playoff hockey. It's entirely different when you take runs at players leaving your feet or going for your opponents head, jump guys from behind already engaged with someone else and going after known non-fighters like Timmonen. All that and I didn't even mention Asham. Even when the Flyers sent Rinaldo out late yesterday he went after Tyler Kennedy who is his size and has fought in the past. Huge difference.

[IndyKMB]

Here's your 3rd man in suspension, although it's not what got him the one-game. It was for the fight after the initial fight I guess.

One down, two to go:

Craig Adams has received an automatic one-game suspension for instigating a fight in the final five minutes of Game 3. The NHL has the power to overturn the automatic one-game suspension, but they won't. If the Penguins win Game 4 and extend the series, then Adams will be available for Game 5 on Friday.

Rotoword, Source: Bob McKenzie on Twitter

[Oilers1980]

Originally Posted by WilsonValdez

Hey Liam..serious question. Did you watch the entire game...and paying full attention?

Aww Wilson my man, you know you're the only reason I like the Flyers. Paid full attention, and saw them destroy the pens at every aspect.

When you have league leaders thoroughly frustrated, you know you're doing it right.

I know you're the city of brotherly love and all but do you expect rivals to come in be embarrassed and not take some dumb penalties - which they will be suspended for ( yet another win if you are playing against them).

Regarding the "homer" comment..... Just google map Edmonton, it's there somewhere.

Ashams cross check was bs, and he'll be done for a while for it.
Call it what it was though, a cheap dirty play worthy of a 5 min, game misconduct and likely 5 game post - season suspension. It wasn't exactly Suter's cross-check to the head of Paul Karya during a goal celebration - hence the "suck it up and be happy" comment, Schenns a tough kid, and he's doing just fine.

This is the best series thus far, so be happy Brotherly Lovers (don't take that the wrong way W.V. )

Oilers have to be in the league to pick first.
Vancouver has to be in the league to promote the Olympic sport of diving.
Calgary has to come 9th.
And Toronto has to give American players, coaches and GM's a place to lose.

I've accepted this.

[Oilers1980]

PS

Jagr should be suspended for that disgusting display of the one handed dish to Giroux.
Think panini will make a new version of "eight is enough" booklets based on the last 2 scores?

[WilsonValdez]

Originally Posted by Oilers1980

Aww Wilson my man, you know you're the only reason I like the Flyers. Paid full attention, and saw them destroy the pens at every aspect.

When you have league leaders thoroughly frustrated, you know you're doing it right.

I know you're the city of brotherly love and all but do you expect rivals to come in be embarrassed and not take some dumb penalties - which they will be suspended for ( yet another win if you are playing against them).

Regarding the "homer" comment..... Just google map Edmonton, it's there somewhere.

Ashams cross check was bs, and he'll be done for a while for it.
Call it what it was though, a cheap dirty play worthy of a 5 min, game misconduct and likely 5 game post - season suspension. It wasn't exactly Suter's cross-check to the head of Paul Karya during a goal celebration - hence the "suck it up and be happy" comment, Schenns a tough kid, and he's doing just fine.

This is the best series thus far, so be happy Brotherly Lovers (don't take that the wrong way W.V. )

Oilers have to be in the league to pick first.
Vancouver has to be in the league to promote the Olympic sport of diving.
Calgary has to come 9th.
And Toronto has to give American players, coaches and GM's a place to lose.

I've accepted this.

Originally Posted by Oilers1980

PS

Jagr should be suspended for that disgusting display of the one handed dish to Giroux.
Think panini will make a new version of "eight is enough" booklets based on the last 2 scores?

Ahhh you know I love/miss you Liam. I think what seperated it from "good, physical hockey" was not only the Asham cross-check, but then sucker punching Schenn while he was laying face down on the ground. Then there was Neal headhunting for (what are in the series) our two best players at the end of the game. And the Adams punching Hartnell in the back of the head, while his back was turned, etc, etc.

I love good physical hockey, but I am not a fan of cheap bullsh*t...even if it's physical.

PS- Jagr still has some of the best puck control of any player in the league.

[Sidthekidc87]

I can't believe some of the crap Im reading on this thread.

There are two types of goons
One is playing like rough guys who play within the boundaries of the game and the high bar of player respect, but get in the face of the other team.
The second type is when you play outside the boundaries of the game and do things intentionally to hurt other players, like Asham.

I had no problem with what Crosby did, even though it was a bit douchey. He's the captain of a team down big in a game, and a team thats about to go down 3 games to none. Taunting and doing things like kicking another player's helmet away is just a tactic to shift momentum and get the other team to mess up a bit. As captain its his job to do something, get under the skin of the other team, and psychologically mess with them.

Asham, on the other hand, dangerously charged at one of the Flyers and cross checked him right in the face. When you use your stick as a weapon for potential injury thats playing outside the boundaries of the game.

Its easy to see that the penguins are desperate enough that they need to resort to intentionally hurting players, and it only is aggravating them more that the Flyers are still kicking their asses.

[IndyKMB]

Originally Posted by WilsonValdez

, etc.

I love good physical hockey, but I am not a fan of cheap bullsh*t...even if it's physical.

PS- Jagr still has some of the best puck control of any player in the league.

This x 4,000,000.

Hit hard and clean. And drop the gloves if you're challenged on it.

This crap of elbows to the head, slapping at shins, knocking gloves away, starting scrums and then skating in circles as your teammates are left to clean up your crap...it's BS.

P.S. Jagr still rocks!

Play the game. Respect the game. Respect the players.

[avjp87]

You cant beat us chant (Flyers vs Penguins 4/15/12 - YouTube

[WilsonValdez]

Any Penguins fan, who wants an unbiased (and frankly infinitely more informed than any of us) opinion on the goings on of the game should read this short "article" by former Senior referee Kerry Frasier. I think it speaks for itself (I know it's a ton of reading, but just TRY to exert yourselves):

Fraser: Looking back at the melee-filled game in Philly

I will get to the specifics of your questions in a moment. First I need to point out how Game 3 unraveled early in the City of Brotherly Love beyond attributing it solely to playoff intensity and "hatred" that has developed between opposing players.

In post-game comments, Sidney Crosby said he swatted Jakub Voracek's glove away because, "I hate him; I hate all those guys," in reference to the Philadelphia Flyer players.

The disrespect Sid demonstrated to a piece of Flyers equipment at 12:02 of the first period resulted in a fight he engaged in with Claude Giroux and set a secondary bout in motion between Kimmo Timonen and Kris Letang that led to their automatic ejection from the game.

The main event (video link) might have started when Sid knocked Jake's glove away, but the preliminary bout happened a minute or so earlier when Crosby chopped at another Flyer player's glove (at 1:08 of this video) and wasn't penalized for it.

The absence of a swift and firm response by the referees to Sidney Crosby's repeated slash to the glove hand of Flyers goalie Ilya Bryzgalov prior to the fisticuffs became an officiating turning point in the game. This spark ignited the ever-present combustible fuel that exists when these two teams meet and caused player hostilities to boil over and continue throughout most of the game. The officials had to continually battle back from this early incident in an
attempt to exert and maintain control.

Every game has an ebb and flow; a heartbeat and a temperature that rises and falls throughout. This is especially true in a playoff series when player aggression and "hatred" (perceived or stated) escalates. It is incumbent upon the referees to know when to impose themselves to control the temperature of the game through appropriate application of the rules. The "when" and "how" results from an acute feel for the game.

Action in an around the goal crease, contact with the goalie and dangerous or high hits are always "hot spots" that draw a crowd resulting in scrums and should always be high on the ref's radar screen.

Once Crosby swatted at the glove hand of Bryzgalov as the play was blown dead, Voracek led the cavalry charge and wrestled with Crosby. This was the perfect opportunity for the referee(s) to impose themselves and establish game control. A swift and forceful reaction by the referee behind the goal line to impose a slashing and roughing minor to Crosby in addition to a roughing minor to the Flyers' Voracek would have ended the incident in this moment. The linesmen would have escorted the two players to the penalty box swiftly and nothing further would have developed at that point and time. A Flyers power play would have also sent an early message to avoid contact with the goalkeepers at both ends of the ice.

Due to a lack of response by the referees on this initial incident, tornados of player hostility were allowed to spawn elsewhere which resulted in two fights and game ejections to key players from both teams a minute or two later. The stage was set and the match was lit for what followed.

A swift and correct penalty assessment was imposed by the referee on Brayden Schenn's charge and Arron Asham's match penalty that followed. There is no question a suspension will result for Asham. The only question will be how many games?

Andrew and Jason, you have asked about the late, high hit that James Neal threw on Claude Giroux. I am going to back up a shift or two and provide you with another game temperature check. This one occurred when Neal left his feet and leveled Sean Couturier as the Flyer was turning in the neutral zone without the puck and unaware of impending contact.

The fact James Neal left his feet and moved slightly right into Couturier prior to impact eliminates any free pass I might have given the Pens star that this was just an accidental collision. James Neal saw Sean Couturier on the road ahead and in his lane. This should have been identified as interference or charging and James Neal placed in the penalty box. Player hostilities intensified on the Flyers bench as Couturier was lifted from the ice and helped to the dressing room.

James Neal subsequently tracked Claude Giroux from behind and delivered a high open ice hit that threw gasoline on a fire that was already burning. Giroux stumbled like a wounded deer following the contact. There was no apparent response by the referees as you suggest on this play to identify the infraction and in an attempt to bring the temperature down. The players then took matters into their own hands.

Jakub Voracek once again led the charge and was the first to chase James Neal to the Pittsburgh players' bench followed closely by Scott Hartnell and Wayne Simmonds. Crosby grabbed Hartnell from behind and the captain's involvement became the catalyst for Craig Adams to unload on the back of Hartnell's head.
James Neal was already on the Pittsburgh bench when the scrum ensued. The Flyers players were attempting to get at him in retaliation. Once the dust settled a discussion between all the officials resulted to sort out the penalties. Hindsight being 20-20, it was likely determined that a charging penalty needed to be assessed to James Neal as the cause of the altercation.

The additional 10-minute misconduct assessed to James Neal on this exchange demonstrates the "pro-active" measures that a referee(s) should take to bring the temperature down or at least remove the pot from the stove.

This was wise decision on the part of the Officials even if it came at 15:18 of the third period. My advice to the refs in all the playoff games is to have their thermometers ready following the opening puck drop and to take the game temperature frequently.

It is the best measuring devise they can utilize to keep the "hate" from boiling over.

[BostonNut]

So what I took from that is that Cindy started the whole thing with no intention of getting his fingernails dirty. He then proceeded to keep things hot by grabbing Hartnell and letting Adams do the dirty work.

Crosby deserves a game off if you ask me.

Originally Posted by WilsonValdez

Any Penguins fan, who wants an unbiased (and frankly infinitely more informed than any of us) opinion on the goings on of the game should read this short "article" by former Senior referee Kerry Frasier. I think it speaks for itself (I know it's a ton of reading, but just TRY to exert yourselves):

Fraser: Looking back at the melee-filled game in Philly

[deboesports]

philly sucks! GOD BLESS

[ncm7772]

Embarrassed to be a Pens' fan.

[WilsonValdez]

Originally Posted by BostonNut

So what I took from that is that Cindy started the whole thing with no intention of getting his fingernails dirty. He then proceeded to keep things hot by grabbing Hartnell and letting Adams do the dirty work.

Crosby deserves a game off if you ask me.

Well that's one thing to take out of it..but that's definitely true. I definitely wouldnt want him to sit...let him get beat and get his on his own.

Originally Posted by deboesports

philly sucks! GOD BLESS

Most intelligent post by a Pens fan so far...especially given how embarrassing this series is.

Originally Posted by ncm7772

Embarrassed to be a Pens' fan.

You should be...I would be if it was the other way around.

[sportsstuff87]

Originally Posted by ncm7772

Embarrassed to be a Pens' fan.

ahhhh a fine post indeed, thank you so much for the stats.

.....moron



In other News

Neal gets 1 game
Asham gets 4 games

[Nicnac]

In an alternate universe, Pittsburg plays dirty, starts fights every other minute, and makes the game generally pretty disgusting. In this same world, Philly comes out smelling like roses.

Welcome to the Twilight Zone.


Now, can someone explain to me how Raffi Torres doesn't get a penalty for knocking someone's head off... Again... Again?

[Oilers1980]

Originally Posted by WilsonValdez

Ahhh you know I love/miss you Liam. I think what seperated it from "good, physical hockey" was not only the Asham cross-check, but then sucker punching Schenn while he was laying face down on the ground. Then there was Neal headhunting for (what are in the series) our two best players at the end of the game. And the Adams punching Hartnell in the back of the head, while his back was turned, etc, etc.

I love good physical hockey, but I am not a fan of cheap bullsh*t...even if it's physical.

PS- Jagr still has some of the best puck control of any player in the league.

Amen to that, and reading some of the Flyers quotes today, they have stayed super classy. They have their heads on their shoulders now, gonna be tough to stop them after this series!

[ncm7772]

Originally Posted by sportsstuff87

ahhhh a fine post indeed, thank you so much for the stats.

.....moron

Stand down, duder. If you are a Pens fan and NOT embarrassed by their play, you're lying to yourself. I'm a Pens fan, and am embarrassed.

[WilsonValdez]

Originally Posted by ncm7772

Stand down, duder. If you are a Pens fan and NOT embarrassed by their play, you're lying to yourself. I'm a Pens fan, and am embarrassed.

I think he meant to quote the other guy, whose only addition to the thread was "Philly sucks", not you.

[BostonNut]

BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHA



I actually hope Pitt wins a game or two so that this thing gets dragged out further...

[WilsonValdez]

I really have no clue why Sid is so hated.?

Crosby says Penguins don't regret Game 3 fireworks - Penguins vs Flyers - 2012 Stanley Cup Conference Quarterfinals

Among Crosby's comments during a post-practice session with reporters Tuesday at Consol Energy Center:

* The Penguins don't regret the way they conducted themselves Sunday despite having Kris Letang, Craig Adams and Arron Asham ejected from a penalty-filled game in which they admittedly lost their composure at times.


"I think we're trying to do whatever we can to win hockey games," Crosby said.


* Their fans shouldn't be saying the Penguins embarrassed themselves while giving up eight goals for the second successive game and engaging in numerous fights, including one between Crosby and Flyers star Claude Giroux.


"They should have nothing to be embarrassed about," he said. "They should be pretty proud of the guys they have here. It's a terrible situation to be in, being down 3-0. But that's when you need your fans the most."

[TASS]

Originally Posted by WilsonValdez

I really have no clue why Sid is so hated.?

Crosby says Penguins don't regret Game 3 fireworks - Penguins vs Flyers - 2012 Stanley Cup Conference Quarterfinals

As a Fan of neither team I really hope they beat the piss out of each other for a few more games!
But what really amazes me is how the Pit. organization, and quite frankly Mario Lemieux continue to let 'Sid the Kid' (he is after all, just that-A 'Kid') talk to the freakin press. I have seen numerous organizations put the proverbial 'GAG ORDER' on far more seasoned Veteran Captains but for whatever reason the Penguins have allowed Crosby to continually blast bulletin board material on a daily basis, further proof this organization stinks from the head down!

[BAMBAM]

I don't hate Crosby, in fact I think he's a tremendous player and fun to watch when he's playing the game. It's all the BS that he's done over the years like the whining, hitting guys in the nuts, jumping a guy looking down during a face-off and grabbing guys from behind like he did Hartnell then letting someone else finish what he started that makes me annoyed with him.

I understand it's frustrating getting embarrassed on the scoreboard like they have been so far in the series and I have no respect for anyone who takes losing in stride as I've always said, "show me a good loser and I'll show you a loser". My problem is if you're that upset and need to let it go, then go after Hartnell head on and don't pull the crap like on Sunday.

I see a whole lot of Bobby Clarke in Crosby but the difference is Clarke instigated yet fought a lot of his own battles and only needed someone like Dave Shultz or Paul Holmgren when one of the enforcers went after Clarke. Clarke got bloodied more then any superstar I've seen over the years. You're not going to let Tiger Williams pound on your captain just as the Pens shouldn't let someone like Jody Shelly pound on Crosby. I always see Crosby swing his stick or glove at other players only to have Kunitz or Adams jump on the guys back no matter who it is. Was Kimmo Timmonen going to pound Crosby into the ice that LeTang had to jump on his back ? Crosby probably would have won that fight and could have sparked the team but we'll never know.