The cup 2011-12 holy grail- back doored?

[t2554]

Originally Posted by cking

Panini held back the Sam Bradford Mirror Black Shield from 2010 Certified and Topps held back one of the Andy Dalton superfractors from 2011 Finest. I have no problem with them holding on too them for replacements as long as they tell you those cards are not available in packs. At least you know if you have a chance to pull one or not and can base your decision on if you choose to still purchase wax.

Then when someone pulls a scrub player superfractor they can 'damage' it and send it in for replacement, knowing they have a good chance of getting that star's super..

Just looking at it from the other side.

[cking]

you certinly do have a good point. But what if someone pulls a super of a great player and its damaged out of the pack? What you stated above is the reason they dont release the names of the cards who they are holding back.

[Oilers1980]

in my opinion, to hold back a major attraction that is advertised as being in a product is just fraud.

Not saying that happened with the cup at all, but if those examples you guys pointed to are true, why should anyone buy product at all.

I wouldn't buy a lottery ticket if the top prize was just a theory.....

[hermanotarjeta]

That's why i'm not buying anymore until it's less than $400 a tin.

[Aomalle27]

UD has all sorts of legal problems, including lawsuits for not paying players for autos, redemption issues (although this was strange cause guy bought cases of stuff 5 yrs old and still wanted to redeem) plus ALOT of fraud dealing with high end cards including jersey fakes. Wouldn't put it past
Richard McWilliam and Paul Meyer. Why not keep all the choicest hits and sell them 3 rd party. Man if I ever won the lottery I'd start my own card company with integrity. Still confused why the don't publish photos of all their cup cards to ensure that collectors are getting the real deal

[rojallad]

I generally like to give people the benefit of the doubt and assume that he legitimately nailed it on a case. But, after plowing through two master saves and getting nothin even close to e hits that he displayed and sold, I will have to agree with all here that this is something very shady and I am upset. I spent $6k on my cases and now knowing that i potentially got screwed by UD?

However, I did bust 4 full cases of exquisite football and double my money. So is UD only screwing the hockey fans?

[FrankieP]

Originally Posted by hermanotarjeta

UD used to be in Carlsbad, seller is in San Diego, just south of Carlsbad. It is possible the seller may have been an ex-employee or an associate of someone who works at UD. Ud moved to north carolina, but they still have strong ties in southern california.

UD still has their HQ in Carlsbad, and they have a facility in NC.

[hermanotarjeta]

Originally Posted by Aomalle27

UD has all sorts of legal problems, including lawsuits for not paying players for autos, redemption issues (although this was strange cause guy bought cases of stuff 5 yrs old and still wanted to redeem) plus ALOT of fraud dealing with high end cards including jersey fakes. Wouldn't put it past
Richard McWilliam and Paul Meyer. Why not keep all the choicest hits and sell them 3 rd party. Man if I ever won the lottery I'd start my own card company with integrity. Still confused why the don't publish photos of all their cup cards to ensure that collectors are getting the real deal

This is probably not Upper Deck's fault, per se, I don't think the CEO is telling it's employees to hold back their best cards from a product.

I think it's an internal issue where security at the printing plant and packing room is too lax, ie too easy for unscrupulous UD employees to snatch cards out of the run. I mean, they actually had an image of the 93/99 Nugent hopkins RAP on twitter during their packout day - you have to almost assume it was packed out. Then again, since they pulled the card out specifically to take a picture of it, who knows what happened to the card afterwards. The upper deck manager probably told the employee to get it back into the packout, the employee puts it in his pocket on his way back to the packing room, then ships it to his buddy across country, they sell it on ebay, and they both get several thousand for their ingenuity. Upper deck is at fault for not watching it's employees more closely, not at fault for not placing the best hits into their products.

I suppose you are only as good as your least honest employee- it still looks bad for the company.

[WilsonValdez]

Originally Posted by hermanotarjeta

It would have been nice to share that the National Treasures rookie Tyreke and Blake logoman 1/1 patch autos were not available to the public either.

This is interesting....go on

[Andrew Jones]

Originally Posted by hermanotarjeta

This is probably not Upper Deck's fault, per se, I don't think the CEO is telling it's employees to hold back their best cards from a product.

I think it's an internal issue where security at the printing plant and packing room is too lax, ie too easy for unscrupulous UD employees to snatch cards out of the run. I mean, they actually had an image of the 93/99 Nugent hopkins RAP on twitter during their packout day - you have to almost assume it was packed out. Then again, since they pulled the card out specifically to take a picture of it, who knows what happened to the card afterwards. The upper deck manager probably told the employee to get it back into the packout, the employee puts it in his pocket on his way back to the packing room, then ships it to his buddy across country, they sell it on ebay, and they both get several thousand for their ingenuity. Upper deck is at fault for not watching it's employees more closely, not at fault for not placing the best hits into their products.

I suppose you are only as good as your least honest employee- it still looks bad for the company.

Does UD even pack out their own products? I thought most of the larger card companies used third parties to print and pack out their products.

[pepsiporch]

Originally Posted by WilsonValdez

This is interesting....go on

Blake Griffin nt logoman was pulled from a box

[hermanotarjeta]

Originally Posted by pepsiporch

Blake Griffin nt logoman was pulled from a box

So was the Tyreke. Unfortunately, i'm not sure those boxes were available to the general public, allegedly.

[WilsonValdez]

Originally Posted by hermanotarjeta

So was the Tyreke. Unfortunately, i'm not sure those boxes were available to the general public, allegedly.

Goooo on....allegedly.

[hermanotarjeta]

Well, apparently, a shipment never got packed into the wooden boxes, and somehow made it out into the streets as just the inner black boxes, stickers intact. This is just heresay, but I wouldn't be surprised if this actually happened.

I also want to find out what happened to the 2008 Exquisite Tiger Woods #1-9/10. The inscription was 10/10 and the /3 parallels and 1/1 were inserted into packs, but i've never seen #1-9/10, apparently they were never made.

Or were they?

[solt0131]

Originally Posted by Andrew Jones

Does UD even pack out their own products? I thought most of the larger card companies used third parties to print and pack out their products.

For The Cup, they do the packout themselves.

[Aomalle27]

Would you really be surprised if UD had premier cards walk out the door? They don't have a definitive number of cards that they put in a tin of the cup. Sometimes 5 other times 6. Just short a tin the case hit. And no ones the wiser. You still ship out the correct number of tins and the number of actual cards shipped out is arbitrary. This is also the company that forged Konkani cards and used Kareem Abdul Jabar s likeness with his permission or compensation. And they still owe several nfl and MLB players their signing fees.

[Aomalle27]

That's Konami and WITHOUT Kareem's permission

[ZappBrannigan]

This post should be called "I've just woken from a multi-year coma can you repeat what happened again?

[Aomalle27]

Well seeing your post in the done with UD header, you undoubtably would just classify this guys hits on 11-12 as "lucky". The rest of us don't seem so convinced. Pulling Ryan Nugent Hopkins RAP #93/99. Would be lucky. Crosby stick plate also? Incredibly lucky, and Lemieux Francis dual shields? C'mon. Especially since these are the only three cards he/she is selling?

[strider_boi]

Originally Posted by hermanotarjeta

Well, apparently, a shipment never got packed into the wooden boxes, and somehow made it out into the streets as just the inner black boxes, stickers intact. This is just heresay, but I wouldn't be surprised if this actually happened.

I also want to find out what happened to the 2008 Exquisite Tiger Woods #1-9/10. The inscription was 10/10 and the /3 parallels and 1/1 were inserted into packs, but i've never seen #1-9/10, apparently they were never made.

Or were they?

Ugh...those packs...I remember those damn things....

[hermanotarjeta]

Guess what, a thread alluding to this thread got locked down by a moderator on a different message board. I wonder why?.........CAUSE UPPER DECK SUPPLIES THE COMPANY WITH WAX, and implying anything bad about a company that supplies their board's owner with tons of wax is a no-no, unfortunately.

I love upper deck cards - that's all I own, but I can't tolerate this kind of shenanigans...thanks BO for letting us speak out on this topic, we know you are huge fans of UD, lol.

[ZappBrannigan]

Originally Posted by Aomalle27

Well seeing your post in the done with UD header, you undoubtably would just classify this guys hits on 11-12 as "lucky". The rest of us don't seem so convinced. Pulling Ryan Nugent Hopkins RAP #93/99. Would be lucky. Crosby stick plate also? Incredibly lucky, and Lemieux Francis dual shields? C'mon. Especially since these are the only three cards he/she is selling?

Where does it says he pulled them?

[hche]

After UD made fake Yugioh cards while they have the North America exclusive distribution license, I am not surprised at anything they may be doing.....

[WilsonValdez]

Originally Posted by hermanotarjeta

Guess what, a thread alluding to this thread got locked down by a moderator on a different message board. I wonder why?.........CAUSE UPPER DECK SUPPLIES THE COMPANY WITH WAX, and implying anything bad about a company that supplies their board's owner with tons of wax is a no-no, unfortunately.

I love upper deck cards - that's all I own, but I can't tolerate this kind of shenanigans...thanks BO for letting us speak out on this topic, we know you are huge fans of UD, lol.

Cnc??????????????

[Inferno]

Originally Posted by hermanotarjeta

Guess what, a thread alluding to this thread got locked down by a moderator on a different message board. I wonder why?.........CAUSE UPPER DECK SUPPLIES THE COMPANY WITH WAX, and implying anything bad about a company that supplies their board's owner with tons of wax is a no-no, unfortunately.

I love upper deck cards - that's all I own, but I can't tolerate this kind of shenanigans...thanks BO for letting us speak out on this topic, we know you are huge fans of UD, lol.

Well you do realize you are making some pretty serious accusations with little to no proof, what do you expect? There are a few unlikely, but still plausible, reasons how this could have happened:

1) Maybe he breaks a LOT of The Cup. I'm sure you are aware that there are some collectors out there who break mind-boggling amounts of The Cup, one of whom is a member here, so there is a small chance that he did in fact pull those cards. Instead of listing hundreds of singles maybe he sells the huge hits and someone else handles the sales of the lesser cards on his behalf. It's not unusual.

2) Maybe he is a dealer or store owner and his customers pull the cards which he then sells for them on eBay. Did anybody get any kind of response from the guy as to what he does or where he gets the cards?

3) Third and least likely of all, maybe he actually was that lucky and pulled those cards himself. Odds are stacked way against that being the case but who really knows.

Before you call me an Upper Deck supporter believe me, I am far from it. I have not opened UD wax in at least three or four years and I don't trust their "game-worn memorabilia" are far as I can throw Richard McWilliam. I believe they are a shady and corrupt company behind closed doors but like anyone else here I don't have the evidence to support a claim like this even though it could be true. I find numerous cases of fake or incorrect memorabilia being used on UD cards and I am quick to point it out to other collectors, when I have the evidence to prove it.

My point is if you fly into a forum with a head of steam - much less one who is sponsored by or partnered with the company in question - and accuse any that company of committing evil without proof it is going to result in closed threads and you can't really be surprised when it happens. If you do find evidence by all means let me know because I want to know the truth about shady dealings as much as the next guy.