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Old 09-25-2012, 03:29 PM   #51 (permalink)
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Well you do realize you are making some pretty serious accusations with little to no proof, what do you expect? There are a few unlikely, but still plausible, reasons how this could have happened:

1) Maybe he breaks a LOT of The Cup. I'm sure you are aware that there are some collectors out there who break mind-boggling amounts of The Cup, one of whom is a member here, so there is a small chance that he did in fact pull those cards. Instead of listing hundreds of singles maybe he sells the huge hits and someone else handles the sales of the lesser cards on his behalf. It's not unusual.

2) Maybe he is a dealer or store owner and his customers pull the cards which he then sells for them on eBay. Did anybody get any kind of response from the guy as to what he does or where he gets the cards?

3) Third and least likely of all, maybe he actually was that lucky and pulled those cards himself. Odds are stacked way against that being the case but who really knows.

Before you call me an Upper Deck supporter believe me, I am far from it. I have not opened UD wax in at least three or four years and I don't trust their "game-worn memorabilia" are far as I can throw Richard McWilliam. I believe they are a shady and corrupt company behind closed doors but like anyone else here I don't have the evidence to support a claim like this even though it could be true. I find numerous cases of fake or incorrect memorabilia being used on UD cards and I am quick to point it out to other collectors, when I have the evidence to prove it.

My point is if you fly into a forum with a head of steam - much less one who is sponsored by or partnered with the company in question - and accuse any that company of committing evil without proof it is going to result in closed threads and you can't really be surprised when it happens. If you do find evidence by all means let me know because I want to know the truth about shady dealings as much as the next guy.
The fact that I even need to be concerned about this scenario is enough for discussion on a message board. Would it surprise me if it happens? No. Does it make me second guess about actually buying another sealed product? Yes. If I have this much concern about it, you figure the companies would take steps to give us that reassurance. Maybe we've been too trusting of the companies over the years that they don't need to prove anything - we've shown we will buy anything, regardless. I don't think this is an isolated incident for me. I've seen several other instances similar to this before, and that's why i've brought it up for discussion purposes. Has anyone else had any suspicions?

Is something like this, if true, going to affect your spending habits?

How does this undermine the entire sports cards industry?

I think the purpose of this thread wasn't to make a specific accusation at a specific card company, per se, but just to spark some discussion about realistic scenarios that may conflict from what we would assume to be true, but perhaps we take for granted and makes us susceptible to being "victimized" by false assumptions.
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Old 09-25-2012, 05:07 PM   #52 (permalink)
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Upper Deck has noticed. They posted on their Facebook page that they are investigating those suspicious sales. Even if nothing else happens, at least they are aware.
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Old 09-25-2012, 07:27 PM   #53 (permalink)
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Upper Deck has noticed. They posted on their Facebook page that they are investigating those suspicious sales. Even if nothing else happens, at least they are aware.
Thank goodness. At least they are looking into it. I'm sure their investigation is going to turn out negative, but what else would you expect? They are not going to incriminate themselves, even if it was possibly done by one of their ex-employees, for instance.

At least others have taken notice and Upper Deck will address this matter appropriately, or at least re-evaluate their own security measures so that we as collectors can be confident we are purchasing legitimate products. I think it is to the card companies best interest to keep their customers in the loop about matters like this. Reassurance = more sales, at least from me.

I know they mention their packout is in north carolina, but you can always express ship stuff anywhere around the country.

As with the other guy on FB commenting about opening many cases, I've opened double digit cases the last two years of cup and you don't get that caliber of hit, even in clusters of cases. I've done enough to know something just doesn't seem right....

Last edited by hermanotarjeta; 09-25-2012 at 07:41 PM.
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Old 09-25-2012, 08:33 PM   #54 (permalink)
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From UD:
We are investigating those sales, but the thing is that the product was packed out in North Carolina so none of the San Diego staff could have those cards. These cards were never at our Carlsbad facility. Again, we have heard concerns about it and our security team is looking into it, but it doesn't appear to be a "back door" situation as many are alleging.

Of course nothing would come out of it if it was discovered there was fraud or theft or anything of the sort - can you imagine trying to make it up to all of the consumers that bought the product? Not possible. And it would likely ruin them.
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Old 09-25-2012, 08:50 PM   #55 (permalink)
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It's not the fact that case hits were made, it's the fact that 3 SET hits were made. #1 draft pick rookie Jersey# patch. A Crosby stck name plate (he's always gonna be most desirable) And the Lemieux Francis shields? Do you really think UD risks sending say all the NHopkins rookies to the States and none to Canada which would be possible if this stuff was sent out random?! Of course not. I still believe the process is rigged. Why not reward your "certified diamond" dealers with some monster hit tins? Encourages more people to buy from those dealers.
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Old 09-25-2012, 08:53 PM   #56 (permalink)
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Plus what are the chances of pulling those AND the babe Ruth bat card? With luck like that the guy's be sh@tting gold bricks while catching leprechauns on flypaper outside his house. Situated at the bottom of a rainbow.
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Old 09-25-2012, 08:57 PM   #57 (permalink)
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Plus what are the chances of pulling those AND the babe Ruth bat card? With luck like that the guy's be sh@tting gold bricks while catching leprechauns on flypaper outside his house. Situated at the bottom of a rainbow.
Similar to the chances that UD has no clue where the cards came from.
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Old 09-26-2012, 07:41 PM   #58 (permalink)
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what is the guy's ebay name?
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Old 09-26-2012, 08:11 PM   #59 (permalink)
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what is the guy's ebay name?
Here's the guy's auction:



2012 Upper Deck The Cup Ryan Nugent Hopkins Auto Patch Card 93/99 | eBay
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Old 09-26-2012, 08:55 PM   #60 (permalink)
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Look at his completed auction feedback. Here's one I just cut and pasted from page 2 of his feedback

Upper Deck Babe Ruth Legendary Lumber Game Used Bat Autograph Card BR-LC #3/3 (#140696620415) US $14,877.00

Maybe he just busts a lot of tins my a$$.
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Old 09-27-2012, 02:21 AM   #61 (permalink)
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This is why I dont bust wax
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Old 09-27-2012, 10:16 AM   #62 (permalink)
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def something is wrong, whoever says otherwise needs to open their eyes

wake up kids!!!!!
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Old 09-27-2012, 11:17 AM   #63 (permalink)
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Just stop buying their products, go buy ITG and Panini. Let the witch hunt begin!
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Old 09-27-2012, 01:23 PM   #64 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Inferno View Post
Well you do realize you are making some pretty serious accusations with little to no proof, what do you expect? There are a few unlikely, but still plausible, reasons how this could have happened:

1) Maybe he breaks a LOT of The Cup. I'm sure you are aware that there are some collectors out there who break mind-boggling amounts of The Cup, one of whom is a member here, so there is a small chance that he did in fact pull those cards. Instead of listing hundreds of singles maybe he sells the huge hits and someone else handles the sales of the lesser cards on his behalf. It's not unusual.

2) Maybe he is a dealer or store owner and his customers pull the cards which he then sells for them on eBay. Did anybody get any kind of response from the guy as to what he does or where he gets the cards?

3) Third and least likely of all, maybe he actually was that lucky and pulled those cards himself. Odds are stacked way against that being the case but who really knows.

Before you call me an Upper Deck supporter believe me, I am far from it. I have not opened UD wax in at least three or four years and I don't trust their "game-worn memorabilia" are far as I can throw Richard McWilliam. I believe they are a shady and corrupt company behind closed doors but like anyone else here I don't have the evidence to support a claim like this even though it could be true. I find numerous cases of fake or incorrect memorabilia being used on UD cards and I am quick to point it out to other collectors, when I have the evidence to prove it.

My point is if you fly into a forum with a head of steam - much less one who is sponsored by or partnered with the company in question - and accuse any that company of committing evil without proof it is going to result in closed threads and you can't really be surprised when it happens. If you do find evidence by all means let me know because I want to know the truth about shady dealings as much as the next guy.
I think your theories are all refutable:

1) he would need to break over 100 cases of the cup within the first week of release to hit those three caliber hits. If he let's someone else sell the other 3000+ singles - where are they? I don't see anyone else listing even close to 500 cup singles in any auction. In addition, by opening 100 cases of the cup within the first week of release, you are hitting other monster hits as well- where are all the other tag/auto 1/1's, gretzky autos, other shields, other 99 rap's - those hits surely couldn't be so lowly that they were'nt worth selling on ebay along with these 3 auctions. Furthermore, where is someone going to get over 100 cases to crack within the first week? Some MAJOR retailers who have been in business for over 30 years were only able to get 10 cases, how can 1 individual have gotten over a hundred within the first week?

2)If he is a dealer or a store owner, where are the great pulls from products from other companies? The sales profiles of these type of ebay sellers ALL include big hits from topps and panini, cards pulled by their customers - I don't know any card shop that only sells upper deck stuff.

3)No, he didn't pull them himself, impossible, impossible given the explanation in 1.

Like I said, this points to an ex-UD employee who still has some sort of connection to the company, perhaps a mole or inside guy who is giving him the hook-up. Look at his completed auctions - 100 count lot of be the player hockey auto singles? Gretzky, Tiger woods auto cards with very few other singles from the OLD sets, Jordy Nelson upper deck sp edition autos? ALL stuff, bonus stuff that could have been handed out to employess/ex-employees. Jordy Nelson, really? That is the dead giveaway, lol.

I think my theory could be very defendable. In fact, if someone can get the actual name of the seller, we could find out for sure. I'm not an fbi agent, but if it came down to it, we could probably find out pretty quickly what exactly is going on.

The ruth 3/3 just baffles me - coming out of nowhere - i'd like to hear a good explanation, hopefully UD doesn't just sweep this one under the rug.

I'd also like to see the seller sell more stuff in the future - maybe UD will tell him to sell some Panini singles just to throw the general public off, lol.

Last edited by hermanotarjeta; 09-27-2012 at 02:07 PM.
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Old 09-27-2012, 01:51 PM   #65 (permalink)
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More suspicious patterns:

He only started selling sports cards in april, 2011. Upper Deck moved headquarters in June 2011.

He appears to be in his late 20's, early 30's based on buying patterns.

He does NOT buy sports cards on ebay.

Sorry if this seems like a witch hunt, but as a customer and fan of Upper Deck, i'm pretty tee'd off if this turns out to be something of an internal security issue.

It really is starting to stink to me.

I would like to hear an explanation from UD.
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Old 09-27-2012, 02:34 PM   #66 (permalink)
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All his completed items are ud

weird
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Old 09-28-2012, 03:02 PM   #67 (permalink)
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come on totally back doored or an employee stole them,,, no doubt,,, impossible pulls,,,,
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Old 09-28-2012, 04:21 PM   #68 (permalink)
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It doesn't matter in the end because UD WILL NEVER admit to these being anything but pack pulled because it would open the door to lawsuits

And I've got to imagine because of the high end level of product, there are quite a few lawyers with the bankroll who open lots of cases and wouldn't mind trying to stick it to UD
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Old 09-28-2012, 04:33 PM   #69 (permalink)
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Mario / Ron Francis is not the most valuable or important shield. All he needed to do was open three tins and he could have gotten those hits.
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Old 09-28-2012, 04:41 PM   #70 (permalink)
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other completed auctions for fun....

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Upper Deck Wayne Gretzky Taylor Hall Dual Enshrinements Autograph The Cup Card (#140735808037)
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Upper Deck Wayne Gretzky Parkhurst Champions Autographed Card 101 32WXN (#140735809032)
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Upper Deck Wayne Gretzky Programme of Excellence Autograph Card #3 of 10 PE-WG (#140731208460)
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Old 09-28-2012, 05:11 PM   #71 (permalink)
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Mario / Ron Francis is not the most valuable or important shield. All he needed to do was open three tins and he could have gotten those hits.
I watched 15 boxes opened at my LCS and of a single hit anywhere near what he was selling
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Old 09-28-2012, 07:35 PM   #72 (permalink)
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Mario / Ron Francis is not the most valuable or important shield. All he needed to do was open three tins and he could have gotten those hits.
impossible. those are all case hits- it would have taken him 3 cases minimum to hit those.

i've opened over 50 cases of cup. I know what breaks should look like.
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Old 09-28-2012, 07:40 PM   #73 (permalink)
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other completed auctions for fun....
He also had last years Dual Shield of Hall/Paajarvi from the CUP.
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Old 09-28-2012, 07:45 PM   #74 (permalink)
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He also had last years Dual Shield of Hall/Paajarvi from the CUP.
What?

Is he active on message boards?

Does anyone know his identity?
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Old 09-28-2012, 08:47 PM   #75 (permalink)
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UD Taylor Hall Magnus Paajarvi Dual NHL Shields 2011 (10/14/2011)...

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