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Old 01-19-2014, 09:30 PM   #76 (permalink)
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I didn't even realize there was a debate. Until now I've never heard the two mentioned in the same breath. Wow. Fanboy. I'm out.
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Old 01-19-2014, 10:50 PM   #77 (permalink)
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Toews own teammate, Patrick Kane, himself said Crosby is the best player in the NHL and hopefully he can become as good as Crosby one day.

NHL.com - Blackhawks' Kane sees Crosby as measuring stick - At the Rink blog


If you're too lazy to read through the article, here is what Kane said,

""He produces every night," Kane said of Crosby (25 goals and 43 assists). "He's fun to watch. Even on nights where he maybe doesn't have his best game, he still comes out of there with two assists or a goal and an assist. Then there's games where it seems like he's determined, and he's the best player in the world and just dominates the game. You're like, 'Wow, this guy is amazing.' I think he's the best the player in the League for sure.""

If Toews was truly the best player in the NHL, you could expect that his own teammate Kane would be the first one to say so. Guess not though! Aw shucks, too bad!

Nice try though!
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Old 01-19-2014, 10:52 PM   #78 (permalink)
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crosby is the better player, but i think toews will have more cups in the end
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Old 01-20-2014, 09:50 AM   #79 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by SeanieTheMan View Post
Toews own teammate, Patrick Kane, himself said Crosby is the best player in the NHL and hopefully he can become as good as Crosby one day.

NHL.com - Blackhawks' Kane sees Crosby as measuring stick - At the Rink blog

Nice try though!
Awesome! LOL

I wonder how this will be twisted by thetheham.
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Old 01-20-2014, 09:54 AM   #80 (permalink)
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By naming Sid captain? Hardly. He is Canada's most marketable player and the second most marketable player in the NHL. I don't think anybody thought he wasn't going to be anointed the captain.

Better player? Its still Toews.

Good reply tho.
LOL.

You are right. They chose him because of marketing.

It's not like they chose the best captain in an attempt to win the gold.
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Old 01-20-2014, 03:58 PM   #81 (permalink)
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so Crosby being named Captain of Team Canada is just an anti-Toews conspiracy? it's all about the marketing? because, you know, winning the Gold isn't the ultimate marketing strategy.

was this thread supposed to be "Toews vs Kunitz?" because, at this point int he season, Toews is only trailing Kunitz by 1 point (though 7 goals). that seems like a more reasonable and realistic debate to have.

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Old 01-20-2014, 04:35 PM   #82 (permalink)
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My head hasn't hurt this much after reading a thread since I decided to try and read one of those LBJ vs. MJ threads in the basketball section.
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Old 01-20-2014, 06:25 PM   #83 (permalink)
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Dude why don't you run for political office your real good at spinning the argument the way you want to benefit you
Benefit me how? By stating fact? See, this translucent delusion that Sid is the best player is just opinion. Of course many of the stat mongers would like to anoint Sid the best player, and sure enough, if somebody questions it, with fact, no less, it hurts feelings. I understand this, but two Cups in this day and age with a very good possibility that the Hawks will repeat as champions surely places the onus on Sid and his legion of fanbois to either put up in the post season, or step aside so the real men can play when it actually matters. I have stated, countless times, no less, that I value a winner more then a stat compiler. Statistics don't make a career, imo, winning Cups do. Joe DiMaggio said it best; "they don't remember how many times you get on base, they remember how many rings you have". That says enough for me considering the guy has a practically unbreakable record.Sid can win every single scoring title for the rest of his career, ill take the player who wins Cups every single time.
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Your a tool as exemplified by your assinying avatar your just here to start crap and be an #@#@#@#@#@#@
What does my avatar have to do with this debate? I have been told, so far, that the NHL should shut down when Sid gets hurts, Malkin is a pick up league player (which I will get to shortly), Sid creates players like some sort of genetic wizard with a caldron in the dressing room, and that when awards are being handed out, the HWAA needs to have Sid stats and games played placed on the ballot. As preposterous as this myriad of reaching into the absurd has become, I have not once resorted to name calling, homosexual innuendo, or internet clichés. I have just provided facts, facts that just cannot be disputed unlike opinion. I knew many would be bitter, but fact is a bitter pill to swallow when it states the obvious.

Quick questions- Who has proven to be a better winner thru out their careers? Toews or Sid? And if winning is the most important thing, who would be the more important player to have?


Ill wait for an answer.


Good reply.
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Old 01-20-2014, 06:50 PM   #84 (permalink)
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What fact last I checked toews was captain of a TEAM sport the world championships etc he didn't lead them anywhere he was on the team if your insight in so spot on I'll forward your 4 page essay here to the NHL front offices as they surely need a person of your understanding and bs logic there with Bettman. Your on a trading card site and contribute nothing but a self centered 1 sided opinion that benefits you and your logic. Nice to know team canada chose Sid as the captain cause they needed that as a marketing tool more than they want to win a gold medal
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Old 01-20-2014, 06:51 PM   #85 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by thetheham View Post
I have been told, so far, that the NHL should shut down when Sid gets hurts
really? someone on this thread told you that? OR.... did you sarcastically suggest it yourself?


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I have just provided facts, facts that just cannot be disputed unlike opinion. I knew many would be bitter, but fact is a bitter pill to swallow when it states the obvious.
the problem is the facts you are arguing are a non sequitur.

Toews has played on 2 Cup winning teams... true. Toews was given Best Forward at the last Olympics... true. the problem is, neither of those things proves, or even slightly suggests, that he's better than Crosby.

it's a team sport. put Toews on the Oilers and does he still have 2 Cups in the past few years? take away Crosby's Golden Goal, and Canada's Gold Medal, and is Toews still "best forward?"

Rocky Bleier won 4 Super Bowls... Barry Sanders won none, Walter Payton won 1, Emmitt Smith won 3. therefore, Rockey Bleier is better than Sanders, Payton & Smith? (sorry about the change to football.)

by your logic, Bleier is better. as much as i loved Rocky, i'm not sure any team would have taken him over Sanders, Payton or Smith.


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Who has proven to be a better winner thru out their careers?
Crosby.
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Old 01-20-2014, 08:38 PM   #86 (permalink)
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Whose is a better winner

Penguins since 07-08 273 wins
Hawks since 07-08 263 Wins

Add 05-06 and 06-07 in and sids over 300.... That's just Team facts. Penguins have WON more games.
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Old 01-20-2014, 09:40 PM   #87 (permalink)
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Wow I am sold, this Toews guy sounds like he will be better than Gretzky (he only had 4 championships), if this is the standard of a great player and captain. Toews is on pace for 7-8 cups at this young stage in his 20 yr career . Definitely a better pace than Crosby is setting. Toews must just be the better player? Someday he will become a household name.

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Old 01-20-2014, 09:43 PM   #88 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Fleurycup09 View Post
Whose is a better winner

Penguins since 07-08 273 wins
Hawks since 07-08 263 Wins

Add 05-06 and 06-07 in and sids over 300.... That's just Team facts. Penguins have WON more games.
Yes but Toews is better.

Good reply tho
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Old 01-20-2014, 11:32 PM   #89 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Fleurycup09 View Post
Whose is a better winner

Penguins since 07-08 273 wins
Hawks since 07-08 263 Wins

Add 05-06 and 06-07 in and sids over 300.... That's just Team facts. Penguins have WON more games.
cups won in the past decade(more important)-

penguins-1
hawks-2
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Old 01-20-2014, 11:36 PM   #90 (permalink)
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but on this idiots logic since more wins go to the Penguins and Crosby is the Captain he is better cause he wins more. Cups don't matter wins do ....
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Old 01-20-2014, 11:36 PM   #91 (permalink)
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Both Toews and Crosby need restraining orders against the OP. You have way too much free time

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Old 01-21-2014, 01:04 AM   #92 (permalink)
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Rob Scuderi won 2 Cups... so he's at least as good as Toews. maybe better since he won them with 2 different teams.

no word on how many pee wee hockey championships Scuderi has won.
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Old 01-21-2014, 09:55 AM   #93 (permalink)
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yes, he is indeed a special case. this debate isn't about whether or not the Pens are the best, most talented, most stacked team in the league... in which case an injury to one player shouldn't matter much. it's about Crosby being the best player.... and when your team's best player (who just happens to consistently lead the league in scoring) misses significant amounts of times with serious injuries, it's worth noting.

it's not some sort of far-fetched excuse... it's just the simple reality.
So basically what you are saying is that the NHL needs to shut down right on the spot every time Sid gets himself injured to save the integrity of Sid’s scoring abilities? Seriously? As far-fetched as such a preposterous idea that is, it just isn’t going to happen considering Sid isn’t above the NHL. Now while I have been called a homer to go along with many other immature names in my very own thread, I have to say that this comment truly takes the cake. Maybe the NHL should make a Sidney Crosby award that personally exemplifies the offensive brilliance of said player who seems to get injured on a much fequent basis then other players” perhaps? He would win it each and every year, just think.
LOL that the NHL should shut down…..



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come on now... "unbeaten" streak? the fact is they were beaten 3 times during those 24 games. it was a point streak, not a winning streak. the Pens, however, had an actual winning streak of 15 games... second most ever behind another Pens team.
Then why is it recorded in the NHL archives as an “unbeaten” streak? Is the NHL itself wrong?
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and then, of course, Crosby got his jaw shattered... things happen but no reason to ignore the obvious.
Injuries happen and are nothing but a plum excuse for fanbois. Its Sid and the Pens problem. Put him in a fat suit with an enclosed caged helmet or allow him to play just like every body else in the NHL.


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again, you're ignoring reality. i forget the actual number at this point but it must be around 250 man-games that the Pens have lost this season to injuries so far... most of any team in the league, probably by a bunch. at one point our top 4 or 5 defensemen were out at the same time... we've lost Dupuis, part of the highest scoring line in hockey... Malkin, Neal, Letang, etc.
now remember, this isn't some excuse for them not playing well... just the opposite. it points to Crosby's leadership and talent. they kept winning through all that.
Wait, but last year, when both Hossa and Sharp were out, Toews leadership abilities while playing on a line with a rookie (Saad), and a semi-plug (Frolik) is ignored? The Hawks did what last year? Kept on winning to the point that the ’13 Hawks are considered one of the greatest teams off all time all the way to a Cup with only one team, Detroit, proving to come up to their level and being a challenge in the playoffs? The Hawks also had more “man games” lost due to injury last year and still won the Cup. Injuries are an excuse, and a crutch for those who need to find some sort of moral victory in the reality of losing. I get it. It keeps the Sid fans pacified into the delusion “well what if” and it keeps them warm thinking up scenarios to themselves “if this didn’t happen we would surely have won the Cup”. See, that’s on the weak. I would much, much rather deal in reality and subject myself to plain old black and white without a self imposed shade of gray to justify a failure season without winning a Cup. Why, take Bruins fans. When the Hawks were celebrating on their home ice last summer, many were using Bergeons injuries as an excuse instead of propping the guy up for playing with cracked ribs and a punctured lung. The Hawks were a much better team, Bergeron wouldn’t have made much of a difference even if he was 100% healthy. That’s reality without bias or excuse. Fans need to come to grips that their teams and favorites are failures more times than not. Sure, it must be comforting that Sid fans can point to scoring titles and say job well done, but the fact remains he has been in the league 8 years and has failed in 7 of them, while Toews has been in the league 6 years and only failed four times. Who has better odds in winning, again?
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one more thing.... since when is "best olympic forward" such a coveted award? i've never seen or heard anyone point to it as proof of anything until you. yes, a committee decided to give Toews that award... good for him.
Wait, whut? Being considered the best at your position for your country is now considered folly? Sorry, but such an achievement would be shouted from roof tops if it was Sid winning it. Now, for all of this “golden goal” absurdity that seems to be brought up whenever Sid fans get upset, the relevance of the “golden goal” wasn’t impactful when, you know, the best forward award was being handed out. Makes you wonder just how important such things are, eh?
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but 2 words - Golden Goal.
I knew it was coming. Yes, that moment time stood still and Miller let in a pillow soft goal while Toews just got off the ice with the tougher assignment of checking Kane and Kesler. It happens. The fault was more on Miller for not icing the puck moreso then Sid dangled him out his jock. It was a soft goal. A goal made more effective by Iggy, who, again, played most of the tourney with Toews and whom Babcock said was the player, not Sid, who made everybody else better around him since he challenged himself for his country with all the tough assignments, like checking OV and Kane. Don’t think Toews determination didn’t rub off on Iggy, it did. It’s the main reason Toews won best forward, an exclusive award. Sid can score a soft goal that was more the fault of the goalie, Toews can get the bigger hardware every single time and this fan would be happy as pie.
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finally... the Pens just had a 3 game Canadian road trip. i don't know that i've ever seen so many fans holding signs and wearing jerseys for an opposing player. and of course, Crosby takes the time to go out and meet them and sign autographs. now to be fair, I haven't watched when the Blackhawks hit those cities but i'm skeptical that Toews gets the same welcome. but maybe he does.
Then watch a Hawks telecast. Chances are there will be more Toews jerseys in the crowd when/if the Hawks go to Pittsburgh then Sid jerseys. I mean…its like that everywhere else. The Hawks are only one of three teams averaging over capacity in the NHL. Pittsburgh isn’t one of them, but chances are if the Hawks come out the true colors will be shining thru in the crowds.


I will get back to the rest of my fans here later. Good job.

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Old 01-21-2014, 03:32 PM   #94 (permalink)
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Toews own teammate, Patrick Kane, himself said Crosby is the best player in the NHL and hopefully he can become as good as Crosby one day.

NHL.com - Blackhawks' Kane sees Crosby as measuring stick - At the Rink blog


If you're too lazy to read through the article, here is what Kane said,

""He produces every night," Kane said of Crosby (25 goals and 43 assists). "He's fun to watch. Even on nights where he maybe doesn't have his best game, he still comes out of there with two assists or a goal and an assist. Then there's games where it seems like he's determined, and he's the best player in the world and just dominates the game. You're like, 'Wow, this guy is amazing.' I think he's the best the player in the League for sure.""

If Toews was truly the best player in the NHL, you could expect that his own teammate Kane would be the first one to say so. Guess not though! Aw shucks, too bad!

Nice try though!
Wait, hamham, you didn't reply to this.....
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Old 01-21-2014, 03:38 PM   #95 (permalink)
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Then watch a Hawks telecast. Chances are there will be more Toews jerseys in the crowd when/if the Hawks go to Pittsburgh then Sid jerseys. I mean…its like that everywhere else. The Hawks are only one of three teams averaging over capacity in the NHL. Pittsburgh isn’t one of them, but chances are if the Hawks come out the true colors will be shining thru in the crowds.
Not surprising, Crosby beats Toews.

Y! SPORTS
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Old 01-21-2014, 04:01 PM   #96 (permalink)
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Toews was passed up by 2 teams in the draft obviously they saw more talent elsewhere at the time. Sid on the other hand was waiting to be drafted when he was 13 y/o.
I think Sidney Crosby is the best player in the world, but this logic is flawed. All it likely means is that GMs didn't realize Toews was still developing while Erik Johnson was already as good as he was going to get, and Jordan Staal had his value inflated thanks to his surname. It would be like arguing in favour of Brian Lawton over Steve Yzerman, because there was never any doubt that Lawton was going to be the top pick that year.

For the record, I'm sure the Pens regret that pick.
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Old 01-21-2014, 04:04 PM   #97 (permalink)
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Then watch a Hawks telecast. Chances are there will be more Toews jerseys in the crowd when/if the Hawks go to Pittsburgh then Sid jerseys. I mean…its like that everywhere else. The Hawks are only one of three teams averaging over capacity in the NHL. Pittsburgh isn’t one of them, but chances are if the Hawks come out the true colors will be shining thru in the crowds.
Toews is my favorite player and it's great that you feel strongly about his ability, but I think this is way off...

When my two daughters did a power skating session for a week this summer (Southern Ontario), there were 20 kids in the class. On the first night, six of those 20 kids had Crosby jerseys while none had Toews. In fact, the only other NHL jersey of any kind was a Bruins' jersey with no name or number. And I've seen the same picture whenever I see the Pens play in Buffalo or Toronto.

Toews is a great player, but if you're talking about popularity it's not even close. Probably also the same reason I've been able to buy some nice Toews Cup rookies for $2K while I can't even sniff the air around a Crosby.
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Old 01-21-2014, 04:30 PM   #98 (permalink)
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So basically what you are saying is that the NHL needs to shut down right on the spot every time Sid gets himself injured to save the integrity of Sid’s scoring abilities?
pretty sure you're the only one who keeps saying that. keep trying to make it sound like others are suggesting it.... you might fool someone eventually.


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Then why is it recorded in the NHL archives as an “unbeaten” streak? Is the NHL itself wrong?
they, and you, can call it whatever you like. the simple fact is that they lost 3 games during that streak... or do you deny that reality too?

they might as well call it the "didn't actually go undefeated since they lost games in overtime but we don't want to upset any homers so we'll call it an unbeaten" streak.


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Injuries happen and are nothing but a plum excuse for fanbois.
first... yet, injuries happen. and to deny they have an impact is delusional.

second... you calling anyone else a "fanboi" is funny.


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Sure, it must be comforting that Sid fans can point to scoring titles and say job well done, but the fact remains he has been in the league 8 years and has failed in 7 of them, while Toews has been in the league 6 years and only failed four times. Who has better odds in winning, again?
Crosby was in the league 8 years... won the Cup 1 of them and was injured 4 of them. so he only "failed" 3 times... as opposed to Toews 4 failures. therefore, a healthy Crosby is much, much more likely to win another Cup.


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the relevance of the “golden goal” wasn’t impactful when, you know, the best forward award was being handed out. Makes you wonder just how important such things are, eh?
if by "such things" you are referring to the "best forward" award then you're correct... not very important at all. you can spin this any way you want, for as long as you want... when the history of the 2010 Gold Medal is revisited, it'll be Crosby and the Golden Goal, not Toews' "best forward" award, which will be remembered and celebrated.


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I knew it was coming. Yes, that moment time stood still and Miller let in a pillow soft goal while Toews just got off the ice with the tougher assignment of checking Kane and Kesler....Sid can score a soft goal that was more the fault of the goalie, Toews can get the bigger hardware every single time and this fan would be happy as pie.
wait, is this all part of the hockey world's conspiracy to make it seem like Crosby is better than Toews?! was Miller in on it too? perhaps the entire USA team? will Oliver Stone make a movie about this?

i'm guessing you never actually went back and watched the entire play... probably hurts too much since Toews wasn't even on the ice.

Crosby takes the puck, skates the distance, splits 4 defenders, gets his own rebound, gives to and calls for it back from Iginla & makes the shot.... yeah, what a "soft" play.

but hey, that "best forward" award is some pretty big hardware. i mean, the fact that while an entire nation celebrates Crosby's Golden Goal only you and Toews' remember that award doesn't mean it's not the most important award ever!

i suppose that's why they named Toews' captain of Team Canada for this Olympics...


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Then watch a Hawks telecast. Chances are there will be more Toews jerseys in the crowd when/if the Hawks go to Pittsburgh then Sid jerseys.
seriously... now you're just saying stuff that makes no sense.

as someone else has already pointed out, Crosby was still the best seller in 2013. but hey, that's just another indisputable fact which i'm sure you'll find a way to dispute.

facts are hard.

Last edited by ejs23; 01-21-2014 at 04:33 PM.
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Old 01-21-2014, 05:22 PM   #99 (permalink)
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i hear Toews is being sent to Sochi a week early to use his superhuman abilities to find and kill all potential terrorists... #SuperToews
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Old 01-21-2014, 05:47 PM   #100 (permalink)
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i hear Toews is being sent to Sochi a week early to use his superhuman abilities to find and kill all potential terrorists... #SuperToews
Easy......I see where you're going but it's not really a laughing matter. Someone over there is gonna get hurt. Bet on it.
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