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-   -   The Toews VS Crosby debate (http://www.blowoutcards.com/forums/hockey/644871-toews-vs-crosby-debate.html)

thetheham 01-10-2014 12:32 AM

The Toews VS Crosby debate
 
You know, instead of having every thread derailed by Crysby fanbois....

[QUOTE=LGBuffalo;6431307]While I really like Toews, I think you're really over-rating him. I know this isn't an extension of the Crosby vs. Toews thread, but the truth of the matter is there is no one within any hockey circle that would agree with you. He might be one of the most complete players in the game and an excellent leader, but there are several players that most people would start their franchise with, and Toews wouldn't be on the top of that list.[/QUOTE]
O rly? Care to name them?:)!

I mean, [I]if[/I] the goal is to win Stanley Cups, which, last time I checked, it was, nobody has won more post lockouts since Toews. Elite, two way players with the talents of Jonathan Toews just don't pop up on a regular basis. Cryby? One Cup, sadly. Which puts him on par with Jonathan Quick instead of Toews.

As for hockey circles, that's all they are, circles. Give me a player who wants to win instead of somebody whose fanbase is obsessed with pointing out statistics to try and gain favor and sure enough, the winner will [I]always[/I] win. Ovechkin has been a more dominant player then Crysby, imo, and has yet to drink from Lord Stanleys Cup. Ask him if he would give up some of those stats for a chance to skate around with the Cup over his head in, get this, a circle.

And considering your Champion Blackhawks didn't restart their dominance [I]until[/I] Toews was on top of their list, the opinion is drastically flawed considering, again, two Cup wins compared to anybody else who is considered a franchise type of player who is, at the very least, one Cup short.

[QUOTE=ejs23;6431636]here's the big difference... being selected as the "best forward" is something that's subjective. it could have easily been Iginla, Crosby or another.[/quote]
Subjective when he was given that honor by the Olympic committee? (shakes head).
[QUOTE=ejs23;6431636]
but noting who scored the game & gold medal winning goal is completely objective. there's no debate... Crosby made the play and scored the goal.[/quote]
And theres also no debate that when Babcock knew Toews was a man among boys, Crysby ice time diminished rapidly towards the end of the tourney. I even think Toews had more TOI then Crysby in the OT, and was routinely double shifted. Like I said, Toews did the dirty work.
[QUOTE=ejs23;6431636]
Crosby finished with 7 points, 1 point behind Toews... but Crosby had 4 goals, 2 of them game winners, to Toews' 1 goal. [/quote]
Toews also had the job of checking the other teams top scoring lines, was a +9, and the players on his line benefitted [I]more[/I] playing with him (Nash and Iggy, respectfully) to the point that both Babcock and Holland made mention of it. Maybe Crysby had the weight of Canada on his shoulders, who knows, but what is fact is Toews didn't wilt under pressure and put Crysby in the position to score. Its what he does. Crysby wasn't even an Olympic all star. Toews [I]was[/I].
[QUOTE=ejs23;6431636]
and again, the league hasn't seen a healthy Crosby for years....[/quote]
But when they do, he turtles under pressure. SEE- last years playoffs
[QUOTE=ejs23;6431636]
no one outside of Chicago would agree with him... and even most of them know better.[/quote]
Yes, because Two Cups in four years as captain means [I]less[/I] then what, exactly?
[QUOTE=ejs23;6431636]
if the Pens offered up Crosby for Toews, straight up, tomorrow, Chicago would wet themselves over it.[/quote]
LOL Whut? A team that has no problem scoring goals would just trade their elite two way center for....more goal scoring?:special:
[QUOTE=ejs23;6431636]
and, for the record, i think Toews is a great player... but he's no Crosby.[/QUOTE]And thank god for that. Toews leads his team to Cups. Crysby just....cries.....

[QUOTE=ncm7772;6431776]His response will invariably come back to the 2 Cups the Hawks have won (which is outstanding, the team did deserve them). And then type "Crysby" a lot. And yes, I also think Toews (as well as Kane and Keith) is an outstanding 2-way player and leader. But, c'mon.........

He might even throw in a personal attack on you. And probably me for typing this. No sense arguing with a homer on a message board![/QUOTE]
Homer, how? By typing out [I]fact[/I]? (smh)

[QUOTE=LGBuffalo;6431942]To be honest, I can't think of one current NHL'er that a team wouldn't trade Crosby for straight-up. There just isn't anyone in the league that can do what he does, and as consistently as he does it. To be honest, I've never really liked him, as his whining and such really made it difficult for me to root for him. However, with age and experience, he's improved in those ways and really has proven himself (when healthy) to be worthy of the hype he received in his draft year.[/QUOTE]
What does, exactly, Sidney Crysby do? Win Cups? Toews has won one more [I]and[/I] will captain his team to yet another one this year. I don't understand what it is that Crysby does outside of scoring. Patrick Kane scores, does that suddenly make him more valuable? Toews scores and keeps the other teams top players from scoring. What, specifically, does Sid do again?

[QUOTE=ejs23;6432232]and that's why it's hard to take him seriously.[/QUOTE]
Its a message board. I don't take anybodys opinion on here seriously. You have a scroll wheel.

[QUOTE=Wolves4Life;6435131]May have been best forward but when I seen the game, The star of the team scored the game winning goal to beat USA.[/QUOTE]
I think it was Crysby who scored the "golden goal".

The "star" of the team just got off the ice and was catching his breath.


Good job, guys.:)!

SeanieTheMan 01-10-2014 01:20 AM

You have some major self-esteem issues if you put this much work into such an ignorant argument.

thetheham 01-10-2014 01:31 AM

[QUOTE=SeanieTheMan;6436920]You have some major self-esteem issues if you put this much work into such an ignorant argument.[/QUOTE]
A five minute reply= self esteem issues? (chuckles)

Wouldn't that mean that [I]everybody[/I] who replies to a post has self esteem issues? Masked reply?

As for ignorant, how? By stating fact?:confused:

SeanieTheMan 01-10-2014 02:10 AM

[QUOTE=thetheham;6436950]A five minute reply= self esteem issues? (chuckles)

Wouldn't that mean that [I]everybody[/I] who replies to a post has self esteem issues? Masked reply?

As for ignorant, how? By stating fact?:confused:[/QUOTE]

Because you put a bunch of effort in trying to prove something that cannot be proven. It's simply people's different opinion on who they think is a better player. You can't prove that. You and other Hawks fans think Toews is the best player in the NHL, that's great. Pens fans think Crosby is the best player in the NHL, that's understandable as well.

But, the fact that you're trying to force this down people's throats just makes you seem like a big jerk. Who cares if people think Crosby is better than Toews? People have different views on who the best player in the NHL is. It's not like anyone said "TOEWS SUCKS!". No insulted your guy, everyone admitted he is a very talented player. But, you calling Crosby, "Crysby", is extremely immature of you.

The only thing that matters is your opinion and your opinion only. Not everyone is going to agree with that.

duwal 01-10-2014 03:12 AM

[QUOTE=SeanieTheMan;6437033]Because you put a bunch of effort in trying to prove something that cannot be proven. It's simply people's different opinion on who they think is a better player. You can't prove that. You and other Hawks fans think Toews is the best player in the NHL, that's great. Pens fans think Crosby is the best player in the NHL, that's understandable as well.

But, the fact that you're trying to force this down people's throats just makes you seem like a big jerk. Who cares if people think Crosby is better than Toews? People have different views on who the best player in the NHL is. It's not like anyone said "TOEWS SUCKS!". No insulted your guy, everyone admitted he is a very talented player. But, you calling Crosby, "Crysby", is extremely immature of you.

The only thing that matters is your opinion and your opinion only. Not everyone is going to agree with that.[/QUOTE]


exactly, people can insult or call Crosby names all that they want but he is still easily the best player and most skilled player in the world. But everyone else is entitled to their opinion even if a lot of them against Crosby might be based more with homerism. Toews is a great player but some might even argue that he isn't even the best player on his own team

BostonNut 01-10-2014 07:22 AM

[QUOTE=SeanieTheMan;6436920]You have some major self-esteem issues if you put this much work into such an ignorant argument.[/QUOTE]

It's called debating.

gonzagacubs 01-10-2014 08:41 AM

I am a big time Blackhawks fan, but even I would take Crosby over Toews.

Crosby is the most exciting player to watch with the puck. Toews is great, don't get me wrong, but Crosby is on another level. I think a lot of Toews success can be atributed to playing on arguably the best line in hockey with Sharp and Hossa.

Both are great players, and any franchise would be thrilled to have either of them as their captain.

LGBuffalo 01-10-2014 09:07 AM

[QUOTE=gonzagacubs;6437473]I am a big time Blackhawks fan, but even I would take Crosby over Toews.

Crosby is the most exciting player to watch with the puck. Toews is great, don't get me wrong, but Crosby is on another level. I think a lot of Toews success can be atributed to playing on arguably the best line in hockey with Sharp and Hossa.

Both are great players, and any franchise would be thrilled to have either of them as their captain.[/QUOTE]

Agreed point for point. I would love for Buffalo to have either of them, as players of their ilk are in short supply. I do agree also that Toews has those Cups not just because he's the best in the world, according to some posters, but because his team is probably the most balanced in the league. Pittsburgh for years has been very top-heavy with forwards, but not so much on the back end. Look what happened the year their defense played cohesively and MAF was solid, they won the Cup. What the OP is missing I think is that it's a team game, and one man just cannot will a team to a Cup, especially over the course of a long play-off.

LGBuffalo 01-10-2014 09:13 AM

In response to the OP, if I were starting a franchise today and had to pick a forward to build around (which I don't think I would; I like going from the net-out) I would take Crosby, Malkin, Datsyuk (right now), Ovechkin, and Tavares before Toews. I would even put Getzlaf, and Giroux at about the same level. Granted, I'm a fan of Toews, but I just think there's too much emphasis in this argument about him being the main and sole reason for Chicago's recent success.

thetheham 01-10-2014 10:11 AM

[QUOTE=SeanieTheMan;6437033]Because you put a bunch of effort in trying to prove something that cannot be proven.[/quote]
By replying to all the Crysby apologists with proven [I]fact[/I] about Toews? It takes very little effort pointing that out, so again, square one. Two Cups next to one for two players who are captains of their respected teams and considered the cogs of their franchises. What part of that [I]cannot[/I] be proven, again?
[QUOTE=SeanieTheMan;6437033]
But, the fact that you're trying to force this down people's throats just makes you seem like a big jerk.[/quote]
Me? Last time I checked, I was merely pointing out fact and have been bombarded with trivial retorts like "Crysby scored the golden goal" instead of [I]any[/I] relevant post that would change my mind. None. Its called a debate. Now, I understand that many a hockey fan have a Crysby poster hanging on their wall and rightly so considering the media's involvement to make him out to be some savior of the NHL, and the NHL's insistence on putting him on a plateau that he doesn't deserve to be on, but fact remains Toews has done [I]more[/I] in his career on some of the biggest stages of play then Crysby has, which, imo, of course, makes him [I]better[/I].

What is more important, a scoring title? Or a Stanley Cup?
[QUOTE=SeanieTheMan;6437033]
But, you calling Crosby, "Crysby", is extremely immature of you.[/quote]
So, its [I]my[/I] fault Crysby lives up to his nickname for pointing it out? Last years playoffs were a testament to Crosby being rewarded the nickname Crysby. The Bruins mauled him, and all he did was whimper and Cry. The Bruins mauled Toews, and he set up the series changing goal. Blame Crysby and [I]his[/I] actions instead of the person who agrees with the title he earned all by himself.
[QUOTE=SeanieTheMan;6437033]
The only thing that matters is your opinion and your opinion only. Not everyone is going to agree with that.[/QUOTE]
And that's fine, which is why I made this thread in the first place.:)!

[QUOTE=duwal;6437109] Toews is a great player but some might even argue that he isn't even the best player on his own team[/QUOTE]
And who would that be?

Homerism is proclaiming some plug to be great. Am I saying Nick Leddy would be a first pairing defenseman on another team? No. I am saying Toews is the best player in the world simply because he has been the main force on a team that has won two Cups in four years and the odds on favorite to win it all again this year. He was the best forward on a stacked Olympic team in 2010 built around some of the best players in the world. Think about that. Toews was voted the best forward while on a team that included Crysby. Toews as an Olympic all star that year while Crysby wasn't even with scoring the "golden goal". Both won the gold, but Toews [I]accomplished[/I] much, much more. That isn't homerism, sorry. That's just pointing out [I]fact[/I].
[QUOTE=gonzagacubs;6437473] I think a lot of Toews success can be atributed to playing on arguably the best line in hockey with Sharp and Hossa.[/QUOTE]
And I can say Sharps sudden out burst in scoring could be attributed to being on Toews wing. It works both ways and is a slight on Toews that he is a product of his line mates instead of being the key cog on the best line in the NHL. Somebody wins all those faceoffs, is a turnover machine, and checks the other teams top centers.
[QUOTE=LGBuffalo;6437559] I do agree also that Toews has those Cups not just because he's the best in the world, according to some posters, but because his team is probably the most balanced in the league.[/QUOTE]
So its Shero's fault for not putting pieces around the translucent best player in the world? Crysby, who many here like to proclaim the best, is at no fault? Pens fans will tell everybody who will listen how Sid and Geno are the two best players playing, but, objectively, having the two best players in the world would put the Pens at a huge advantage. Now, what is the issue? Is Shero incompetent at his position or addressing the needs of his team? Or is Crysby a little bit over rated as a winner and leader? Shero did bring in Iggy last year along with a bunch of other guys at the deadline, so.....

[QUOTE=LGBuffalo;6437578]In response to the OP, if I were starting a franchise today and had to pick a forward to build around (which I don't think I would; I like going from the net-out) I would take Crosby, Malkin, Datsyuk (right now), Ovechkin, and Tavares before Toews. I would even put Getzlaf, and Giroux at about the same level. Granted, I'm a fan of Toews, but I just think there's too much emphasis in this argument about him being the main and sole reason for Chicago's recent success.[/QUOTE]
Have any of those players won more Cups then Toews? Or have they led their teams to more Cup wins then Toews? Obviously, they haven't. The debate ends basically right there if winning a Cup is the most important thing. Toews plays on the best team in the NHL, but again, he captains them. As for the Hawks success, did they win [I]without[/I] him?

Again, good job guys.:)!

gonzagacubs 01-10-2014 11:33 AM

No offense, but I you could be a little less biased, everything you have presented might be able to hold a little more water.

I am not going to address everything in the thread, just what you have responded to me. I was not slighting Toews at all. Please do not twist my words. I merely stated the fact he plays on arguably the best line in the NHL. Sharp has been the model of consistency for the Hawks since joining them years ago. He has always produced. Just leave it at that.

Also, I am not sure you have noticed, but Toews is just as guilty of complaining to the refs as Crosby. Both of them do it constantly. I am a big time Hawks fan, and even I can see that. Irritates the heck out of me, just shut up and play hockey.

chipmaster 01-10-2014 12:08 PM

Ovechkin pwns them both

/THREAD

thetheham 01-10-2014 12:23 PM

[QUOTE=gonzagacubs;6438350]No offense, but I you could be a little less biased, everything you have presented might be able to hold a little more water.[/quote]
Biased by pointing out fact?:confused:
[QUOTE=gonzagacubs;6438350]
I am not going to address everything in the thread, just what you have responded to me. I was not slighting Toews at all. Please do not twist my words. I merely stated the fact he plays on arguably the best line in the NHL. Sharp has been the model of consistency for the Hawks since joining them years ago. He has always produced. Just leave it at that.[/quote]
But, check out his statistics while playing with Toews compared to playing with a different center. Of course he has always produced, but he produces [I]more[/I] on wing with Toews.
[QUOTE=gonzagacubs;6438350]
Also, I am not sure you have noticed, but Toews is just as guilty of complaining to the refs as Crosby. Both of them do it constantly. I am a big time Hawks fan, and even I can see that. Irritates the heck out of me, just shut up and play hockey.[/QUOTE]
Toews doesn't have the sense of entitlement Crysby feels he deserves, which separates them onto two different levels. Every player cries to the refs, but nobody does it as frequently as good ol Sid. If Sid gets his feelings hurt, the game stops so the refs can comfort him. Toews complains, then its over.

Why, take last years playoffs. Zetterberg mugged Toews to the point that Toews snapped. Toews complained, then went to the box where Seabrook calmed him down. Crysby, while in the process of being swept by the Bruins,in game one, no less, had a huge tantrum in the middle of the ice when the period ended and felt the need of the refs embrace before he would leave the ice and join the team he had forsaken only because his master (Chara) gave him a love tap. He put himself above his team and sadly, you can relive it all over again on Youtube.

Toews, btw, got a clothesline from Chara in the Cup finals. What did he do? Set up Bickell for the game changing goal right after. No crying about being wronged, just a mans man doing a man job. A days pay, if you will.


Good reply.:)!

LGBuffalo 01-10-2014 01:02 PM

So the bottom line is, no one is going to convince you that Toews isn't the best player in the world. Despite the fact that there isn't one person in really any connected hockey circle that will agree with you, you're still going to say what you will. That's fine. It's your opinion, and you're welcome to it. You're being very glib with your argument by boiling down the quality of a player to his achievements in a team forum. You realize it's a large fallacy to say that Toews is better because he won more Cups than Crosby. This argument works in golf and bowling, but that's about it. Championships are team events, and one player over a 100 game season (regular and play-offs) is not the sole difference. No one is arguing with you that Toews has more Cups than Crosby. What they're saying is your arrogance and close-mindedness is ultimately where your argument is failing. You're responding on your terms of argument and not a common ground that is generally accepted when comparing players. Here's some food for thought though; Crosby is the 2x recipient of the Ted Lindsay award, or league MVP as voted by players in the NHL. Toews has not won once. Thus, twice in his career, Crosby was voted, by his peers as the best player (not just forward) in the league. Toews never won the award. Therefore, player to player, I'm taking Crosby.

duwal 01-10-2014 01:16 PM

[QUOTE=LGBuffalo;6438843]So the bottom line is, no one is going to convince you that Toews isn't the best player in the world. Despite the fact that there isn't one person in really any connected hockey circle that will agree with you, you're still going to say what you will. That's fine. It's your opinion, and you're welcome to it. You're being very glib with your argument by boiling down the quality of a player to his achievements in a team forum. You realize it's a large fallacy to say that Toews is better because he won more Cups than Crosby. This argument works in golf and bowling, but that's about it. Championships are team events, and one player over a 100 game season (regular and play-offs) is not the sole difference. No one is arguing with you that Toews has more Cups than Crosby. What they're saying is your arrogance and close-mindedness is ultimately where your argument is failing. You're responding on your terms of argument and not a common ground that is generally accepted when comparing players. Here's some food for thought though; Crosby is the 2x recipient of the Ted Lindsay award, or league MVP as voted by players in the NHL. Toews has not won once. Thus, twice in his career, Crosby was voted, by his peers as the best player (not just forward) in the league. Toews never won the award. Therefore, player to player, I'm taking Crosby.[/QUOTE]


yes he clearly isn't going to see things clearly and for sure won't sway anyone else's mind that knows hockey and has seen both players play plenty of times. Toews is great but heck a lot of people including myself would rather have Kane on a team over Toews. He tries to state facts but the fact is Crosby absolutely is on a slightly higher level than anyone else in the NHL when he is healthy and playing. But its what happens, you have a player easily on top of their league like him or Lebron James or Miguel Cabrera and there will be those that attempt to dispute their success or call them insulting nicknames. He's welcome to his opinion while we're all laughing on the inside :special:

k13 01-10-2014 01:26 PM

Toews is not even a Top 10 player. Thanks for the laugh.

Stanley Cups are really overrated anyway.


Put him on Calgary/Buffalo and he never wins any.....

Nick2317 01-10-2014 01:35 PM

[QUOTE=chipmaster;6438508]Ovechkin pwns them both

/THREAD[/QUOTE]

this is comedy gold ....hard to own anyone when you only play 1 end of the ice

frozenntimesports 01-10-2014 01:47 PM

[QUOTE=k13;6439000]Toews is not even a Top 10 player. Thanks for the laugh.[/QUOTE]


He's in my Top 10. There are guys like Toews and Mike Richards who are more valuable than stats indicate, that said, Sidney Crosby is the best player in the world and AO is the best goal scorer in the world, Toews isn't in the same neighborhood.

Can we please stop calling him Crysby? I loathe the Penguins, but the Crysby thing is overblown.

LGBuffalo 01-10-2014 02:11 PM

[QUOTE=duwal;6438931]yes he clearly isn't going to see things clearly and for sure won't sway anyone else's mind that knows hockey and has seen both players play plenty of times. Toews is great but heck a lot of people including myself would rather have Kane on a team over Toews. He tries to state facts but the fact is Crosby absolutely is on a slightly higher level than anyone else in the NHL when he is healthy and playing. But its what happens, you have a player easily on top of their league like him or Lebron James or Miguel Cabrera and there will be those that attempt to dispute their success or call them insulting nicknames. He's welcome to his opinion while we're all laughing on the inside :special:[/QUOTE]

Agreed. I mean to be honest, I'm not the biggest Crosby supporter myself, as his antics did get annoying, especially early in his career. However, there's no denying his talent and the fact that he's deemed the best in the league for a reason.

[QUOTE=k13;6439000]Toews is not even a Top 10 player. Thanks for the laugh.

Stanley Cups are really overrated anyway.


Put him on Calgary/Buffalo and he never wins any.....
[/QUOTE]

I should be offended by the Buffalo comment, but alas it's true!

[QUOTE=frozenntimesports;6439143]He's in my Top 10. There are guys like Toews and Mike Richards who are more valuable than stats indicate, that said, Sidney Crosby is the best player in the world and AO is the best goal scorer in the world, Toews isn't in the same neighborhood.

Can we please stop calling him Crysby? I loathe the Penguins, but the Crysby thing is overblown.[/QUOTE]

Agreed here too. The whole Crysby thing really shows that this is not a debate, but ultimately a forum for the OP to show his disdain for one player, and to herald another.

duwal 01-10-2014 02:17 PM

[QUOTE=frozenntimesports;6439143]He's in my Top 10. There are guys like Toews and Mike Richards who are more valuable than stats indicate, that said, Sidney Crosby is the best player in the world and AO is the best goal scorer in the world, Toews isn't in the same neighborhood.

Can we please stop calling him Crysby? I loathe the Penguins, but the Crysby thing is overblown.[/QUOTE]


exactly, the name calling just makes the person saying it seem even more of a whiner than the player they are referring to

duwal 01-10-2014 02:18 PM

[QUOTE=Nick2317;6439062]this is comedy gold ....hard to own anyone when you only play 1 end of the ice[/QUOTE]


ah but what about goalies??? :special:

thetheham 01-10-2014 02:27 PM

[QUOTE=LGBuffalo;6438843]So the bottom line is, no one is going to convince you that Toews isn't the best player in the world.[/quote]
That's why this thread was made. Convince me when actual fact states Toews is the much better player.

[QUOTE=LGBuffalo;6438843]
Despite the fact that there isn't one person in really any connected hockey circle that will agree with you, you're still going to say what you will.[/quote]
Now you are saying you speak for those in hockey circles? Who are these people and when did they point you as their messenger? I don't understand, what circles are you talking about? The Winners Circle? Toews, being the franchise player for your Champion Blackhawks has done what, exactly to [I]not[/I] be considered the best player in the NHL by leading his team to two Cups in four years?

[QUOTE=LGBuffalo;6438843]
That's fine. It's your opinion, and you're welcome to it. You're being very glib with your argument by boiling down the quality of a player to his achievements in a team forum. You realize it's a large fallacy to say that Toews is better because he won more Cups than Crosby.[/quote]
Wait, so now being the main catalyst for a [I]team[/I] isn't noteworthy when it comes to proclaiming somebody other then Sid the best player in the NHL? Doesn't Sid have Geno, the translucent second best player in the NHL? Norris trophy finalist Letang? Chris Kunitz, who is a Patrick Sharpe type? Neal? So basically what you are saying is that Sid gets a pass even with as stacked a team as the Hawks? What is the next excuse?

[QUOTE=LGBuffalo;6438843]

This argument works in golf and bowling, but that's about it. Championships are team events, and one player over a 100 game season (regular and play-offs) is not the sole difference.[/quote]
Ok, let me get this straight; The Penguins who folded like silk panties last year with a [I]more[/I] balanced team then the eventual champions are now, even when everybody in "hockey circles" were predicting them to win the Cup on account of their depth, are now suddenly unbalanced? The Penguins had just as much star power as the Hawks last year with the deadline moves, but now, when all is said and done, they just didn't match up?:confused:
[QUOTE=LGBuffalo;6438843]
No one is arguing with you that Toews has more Cups than Crosby. What they're saying is your arrogance and close-mindedness is ultimately where your argument is failing. You're responding on your terms of argument and not a common ground that is generally accepted when comparing players.[/quote]
There is always common ground on a message board. But, instead of just proclaiming somebody the best player, please, prove why he is the best player, of which, I have. Two Cups as captain. Once Sid can trump that, first, by leading his team to those Cups, which, Toews has done, then he might have some semblance to claiming that lofty spot.

Until then, tho, he is in Toews shadow. And heaven forbid if Toews guides the Hawks to another Cup this year. Sid would most definitely be an after thought. Food for thought.


[QUOTE=LGBuffalo;6438843]
Here's some food for thought though; Crosby is the 2x recipient of the Ted Lindsay award, or league MVP as voted by players in the NHL. Toews has not won once. Thus, twice in his career, Crosby was voted, by his peers as the best player (not just forward) in the league. Toews never won the award. Therefore, player to player, I'm taking Crosby.[/QUOTE]
Toews has lead his team to two Stanley Cups, winning a Conn Smythe in the process, so.....

[QUOTE=duwal;6438931]yes he clearly isn't going to see things clearly and for sure won't sway anyone else's mind that knows hockey and has seen both players play plenty of times. Toews is great but heck a lot of people including myself would rather have Kane on a team over Toews.[/quote]
Kane is a great player. A great offensive player. Toews brings much more to the table. You win games with players like Kane and Sid. But, you win [I]Cups[/I] with players like Toews.

[QUOTE=duwal;6438931]
He tries to state facts but the fact is Crosby absolutely is on a slightly higher level than anyone else in the NHL when he is healthy and playing.[/quote]
Higher level how? By leading teams to Cups?
[QUOTE=duwal;6438931]
But its what happens, you have a player easily on top of their league like him or Lebron James or Miguel Cabrera and there will be those that attempt to dispute their success or call them insulting nicknames. He's welcome to his opinion while we're all laughing on the inside :special:[/QUOTE]
Well, Lebron has 2 NBA championships. Miggy is a solid comparison, but what does great statistics really mean compared to winning Stanley Cups?

[QUOTE=k13;6439000]Toews is not even a Top 10 player. Thanks for the laugh.[/quote]
:special::special::special::special::special:
[QUOTE=k13;6439000]
Stanley Cups are really overrated anyway.[/quote]
Yeah, that damn end goal to a complete season and the reason why the games are played....Ray Bourque crying while holding the Cup over his head confirms how over rated it is.
[QUOTE=k13;6439000]
Put him on Calgary/Buffalo and he never wins any.....[/QUOTE]
Put Sid on those teams, and neither does he.

[QUOTE=frozenntimesports;6439143]He's in my Top 10. There are guys like Toews and Mike Richards who are more valuable than stats indicate, that said, Sidney Crosby is the best player in the world and AO is the best goal scorer in the world, Toews isn't in the same neighborhood.[/quote]
True, he is, right now, in the pent house looking down at everybody else. Two Cups, remember.
[QUOTE=frozenntimesports;6439143]
Can we please stop calling him Crysby? I loathe the Penguins, but the Crysby thing is overblown.[/QUOTE]
Maybe Sid should grow up then?


Great job, guys.:)!

hermanotarjeta 01-10-2014 02:39 PM

Sid has just been grumpy since he lost his job on "scrubs" after the show ended.

As for Toews, until americans learn how to pronounce his last name without breaking a sweat, he'll never be the true master.

rhcardinals3 01-10-2014 03:02 PM

Let's see who gets voted to be Team Canada's captain. My money is on Crosby.

cardboardkilla 01-10-2014 03:08 PM

Barry Melrose says Crosby is the best player in the world. I think he knows more then any of you, not being rude but its facts. Crosby doesn't get the game winning goal last Olympics then maybe Canada doesn't win Gold. He is the best, and just like basketball people love to hate on Lebron. Its hard to accept for some of you, but you gotta deal with reality.


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