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Old 05-01-2014, 07:14 PM   #26 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Wolves4Life View Post

Seems like Crosby had some good protection there.
but remember... Crosby was involved in 45% of all their scoring. he created much of those scoring opportunities. i mean, i'm a Kunitz fan but it's not a coincidence that he put up career best numbers this season.


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I guess Giroux wasn't a one-man show after all -he had more protection than Crosby did!
excellent counter
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Old 05-01-2014, 07:14 PM   #27 (permalink)
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To me it still comes down to well they may not be all-stars they still where good enough to get called up. I mean to use that argument wouldn't the MVP have to come from a team that has one superstar and no one else?

I mean not every team in the league has other All-Star's and or another superstar on it on it.
I wasn't making that argument at all - I was just making the point that the Pens did in fact have a bunch of true AHL players in the lineup for a large portion of the season. They aren't NHL-caliber players, but they're the best the Pens have because their GM drafts defensemen in the first round every year and because they were so tight against the cap ceiling this year that they couldn't afford quality third and fourth liners. Add in over 500 man games lost due to injury and that's all you're left with.
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Old 05-01-2014, 07:24 PM   #28 (permalink)
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I wasn't making that argument at all - I was just making the point that the Pens did in fact have a bunch of true AHL players in the lineup for a large portion of the season. They aren't NHL-caliber players, but they're the best the Pens have because their GM drafts defensemen in the first round every year and because they were so tight against the cap ceiling this year that they couldn't afford quality third and fourth liners. Add in over 500 man games lost due to injury and that's all you're left with.
Didn't mean you where i've just seen it mentioned a few times in arguments about this.

I mean i agree 100% he should win it and i have no problems with him at all. I think he is one of if not the best player in the NHL. But that all depends on how you want to judge that, Stats or Titles?
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Old 05-01-2014, 07:32 PM   #29 (permalink)
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Congrats to Sissy Crosby who will win MVP.
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Old 05-01-2014, 07:37 PM   #30 (permalink)
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Congrats to Sissy Crosby who will win MVP.


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Old 05-01-2014, 07:38 PM   #31 (permalink)
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Didn't mean you where i've just seen it mentioned a few times in arguments about this.

I mean i agree 100% he should win it and i have no problems with him at all. I think he is one of if not the best player in the NHL. But that all depends on how you want to judge that, Stats or Titles?
The guidelines say "The player judged most valuable to his team." What that means is anyone's guess. Would the Pens and Ducks be playoff teams without Crosby and Getzlaf? Probably - but would they be Cup contenders? Would the Flyers be a playoff team without Giroux? Maybe, maybe not. So who's more valuable - a player who takes his team from "good" to "Cup contender" or a player who takes his team from "out of the playoffs" to "playoff team"? That's what makes it so much fun to argue about, at least when the arguments are reasoned and not just someone trolling.
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Old 05-01-2014, 07:49 PM   #32 (permalink)
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The guidelines say "The player judged most valuable to his team." What that means is anyone's guess. Would the Pens and Ducks be playoff teams without Crosby and Getzlaf? Probably - but would they be Cup contenders? Would the Flyers be a playoff team without Giroux? Maybe, maybe not. So who's more valuable - a player who takes his team from "good" to "Cup contender" or a player who takes his team from "out of the playoffs" to "playoff team"? That's what makes it so much fun to argue about, at least when the arguments are reasoned and not just someone trolling.
True. Nothing wrong with a good sports argument lol. Anyway i stil think Crosby was MVP this year. Now if Malkin had been healthy along with the other's all year it's a different story. I mean Malkin missed 22 games and still finished in the top 15 in points lol
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Old 05-01-2014, 08:11 PM   #33 (permalink)
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Well, let's see how the Flyers did:

7 guys with 20 or more goals
8 guys with 20 or more assists
6 guys with 40 or more points

I guess Giroux wasn't a one-man show after all -he had more protection than Crosby did!
All you need to do is look at the standings and points to see who was more valuable, Crosby and Pens were 2nd in the East with a ton of offense while Pens finished 6th in the conference and if not for a hot streak probably don't even make the playoffs, Giroux got hot when he had to, Crosby had the support all season whether people compare guys to AHL or not.
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Old 05-01-2014, 08:20 PM   #34 (permalink)
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All you need to do is look at the standings and points to see who was more valuable, Crosby and Pens were 2nd in the East with a ton of offense while Pens finished 6th in the conference and if not for a hot streak probably don't even make the playoffs, Giroux got hot when he had to, Crosby had the support all season whether people compare guys to AHL or not.
You really should quit while you're behind.
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Old 05-01-2014, 08:22 PM   #35 (permalink)
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All you need to do is look at the standings and points to see who was more valuable, Crosby and Pens were 2nd in the East with a ton of offense while Pens finished 6th in the conference and if not for a hot streak probably don't even make the playoffs, Giroux got hot when he had to, Crosby had the support all season whether people compare guys to AHL or not.
Well, since the Blue Jackets and Red Wings finished behind the Flyers, obviously someone from one of those teams should win the Hart. Ryan Johansen? Gustav Nyqvist?
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Old 05-01-2014, 08:25 PM   #36 (permalink)
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True. Nothing wrong with a good sports argument lol. Anyway i stil think Crosby was MVP this year. Now if Malkin had been healthy along with the other's all year it's a different story. I mean Malkin missed 22 games and still finished in the top 15 in points lol
Keep in mind that Getzlaf had Corey Perry, a former Hart Trophy winner, skating on his line. Having another elite player on the same team doesn't automatically disqualify someone from Hart Trophy consideration.
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Old 05-01-2014, 08:37 PM   #37 (permalink)
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Keep in mind that Getzlaf had Corey Perry, a former Hart Trophy winner, skating on his line. Having another elite player on the same team doesn't automatically disqualify someone from Hart Trophy consideration.
True. I didn't mean he still wouldn't win or shouldn't win if he had the same stat's but it could have made stat's different and it changes some arguments around as everyone on the list would have another superstar
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Old 05-01-2014, 08:50 PM   #38 (permalink)
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All you need to do is look at the standings and points to see who was more valuable, Crosby and Pens were 2nd in the East with a ton of offense while Pens finished 6th in the conference and if not for a hot streak probably don't even make the playoffs, Giroux got hot when he had to, Crosby had the support all season whether people compare guys to AHL or not.
i think you're missing that the "ton of offense" is because of Crosby. again... 45%, almost half, of all their scoring involved Crosby.

and should there be bonus points for players who get off to a slow start then catch a hot streak? isn't consistent play better?
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Old 05-01-2014, 08:58 PM   #39 (permalink)
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Well, since the Blue Jackets and Red Wings finished behind the Flyers, obviously someone from one of those teams should win the Hart. Ryan Johansen? Gustav Nyqvist?
If any of them were nominated you could make an argument yes.
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Old 05-01-2014, 09:01 PM   #40 (permalink)
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i think you're missing that the "ton of offense" is because of Crosby. again... 45%, almost half, of all their scoring involved Crosby.

and should there be bonus points for players who get off to a slow start then catch a hot streak? isn't consistent play better?
Playing on a high level offense compared to playing with consistency is two different things. Yes I know Crosby contributed to 45% of the teams offense with the high power offense they got it's not that shocking to be honest, Crosby has always been that good. MVP is for the guy who helps his team the most, While you can argue the 45% I'd rather have the guy who guts it out still finishes 3rd in scoring and proves doubters wrong.
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Old 05-01-2014, 09:02 PM   #41 (permalink)
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All you need to do is look at the standings and points to see who was more valuable, Crosby and Pens were 2nd in the East with a ton of offense while Pens finished 6th in the conference and if not for a hot streak probably don't even make the playoffs, Giroux got hot when he had to, Crosby had the support all season whether people compare guys to AHL or not.
The Flyers had 7 guys score 20 or more goals. So it's not like Giroux didn't have any support.

Yes Giroux got hot and helped get them into the playoffs but what about the other 6 guys who had 20 or more goals?
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Old 05-01-2014, 09:05 PM   #42 (permalink)
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Zuccarello for Hart "Heart" Trophy!
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Old 05-01-2014, 09:25 PM   #43 (permalink)
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My vote goes to Taylor Hall - if it wasn't for him the Oilers would have finished 30th instead of 29th.
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Old 05-01-2014, 09:28 PM   #44 (permalink)
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My vote goes to Taylor Hall - if it wasn't for him the Oilers would have finished 30th instead of 29th.
Figure the dumb posts would eventually start.
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Old 05-01-2014, 09:29 PM   #45 (permalink)
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The Flyers had 7 guys score 20 or more goals. So it's not like Giroux didn't have any support.

Yes Giroux got hot and helped get them into the playoffs but what about the other 6 guys who had 20 or more goals?
Not saying he didn't have support, None more so than Crosby did plus you take into count people picked Ducks and Pens to do stuff, I bet barely 15% picked Flyers to even make the playoffs after last year and even less after their start this season.
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Old 05-01-2014, 09:34 PM   #46 (permalink)
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Not saying he didn't have support, None more so than Crosby did plus you take into count people picked Ducks and Pens to do stuff, I bet barely 15% picked Flyers to even make the playoffs after last year and even less after their start this season.
The Rangers had a worse start then the Flyers, nobody predicted them making it till after Christmas, does this mean Zuccarello should win the trophy? He was our most valuable player.

Crosby wins this no questions asked, he's the best hockey player in the world stop the arguing lol
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Old 05-01-2014, 09:40 PM   #47 (permalink)
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Not saying he didn't have support, None more so than Crosby did plus you take into count people picked Ducks and Pens to do stuff, I bet barely 15% picked Flyers to even make the playoffs after last year and even less after their start this season.
Penguins had 4 guys score 20 or more goals Flyers had 6(not counting Crosby or Giroux)

So how exactly did Giroux not have more support?
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Old 05-01-2014, 09:50 PM   #48 (permalink)
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Penguins had 4 guys score 20 or more goals Flyers had 6(not counting Crosby or Giroux)

So how exactly did Giroux not have more support?
How many of those are on the ice same time as Giroux?
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Old 05-01-2014, 09:53 PM   #49 (permalink)
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How many of those are on the ice same time as Giroux?
3 if you want to count power play's when Simmonds plays with Giroux.

but what does that have to do with anything.
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Old 05-01-2014, 09:56 PM   #50 (permalink)
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3 if you want to count power play's when Simmonds plays with Giroux.

but what does that have to do with anything.
Crosby who average time on the ice is high cause he's out there a ton would benefit from more guys scoring then Giroux would. Anyway we all know Cindy will win, I just think Giroux should.
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