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Old 01-12-2012, 12:45 PM   #26 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by ManInTheMirror View Post
I don't think he should refund because that is what I would do. I think he should refund because it's the right thing to do.
And why is it the right thing to do? Because you have 424 feedback? Nick had 666 feedback and he went rogue. *Note* In no way am I comparing you to Nick, just saying that it happens.

I'm not saying I wouldn't refund you or partial refund you, but the seller has reason to be hesitant when his DC number shows the item as being delivered.


And I still have no idea who this guy you are talking about is.
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Old 01-12-2012, 12:48 PM   #27 (permalink)
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Alright, I get it. I will drop it. I get misunderstood quite a lot on here. DC shows delivered so that is that. Sorry to have wasted anyones time.
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Old 01-12-2012, 12:52 PM   #28 (permalink)
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So we disagree with you, now your going to pout.

Work with the seller and try to work something out. Press the Post Office and see if they can track down the package. Knock on your neighbors doors and see if they got it on accident.

DC shows delivery, not much we can do. Would be the same if it happened to me.
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Old 01-12-2012, 12:53 PM   #29 (permalink)
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I am not pouting, another misunderstanding. I am simply saying yes, this has been a waste of time.

I have been trying to work with the seller.

I have pressed the post office.

I have knocked on neighbors doors.

He doesn't believe me/care so I'm the one screwed.

So the bottom line is the bottom line.
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Old 01-12-2012, 12:55 PM   #30 (permalink)
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Seems very unlikely that the parcel could have arrived at your post office, gotten sorted, loaded onto your carrier's truck, and then delivered to you all within 34 minutes as the tracking indicates. Also, if the times on the tracking indicate your local time, it also seems unlikely you'd be getting mail delivered at 9:30am unless you are one of the very first stops your carrier makes. I used to be the the 3rd stop on my carrier's route at my old place, which was about 100 yards from the post office and I rarely got my mail that early (though on occasion I did).

All in all, it looks like a USPS mistake to me.
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Old 01-12-2012, 12:56 PM   #31 (permalink)
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All in all, it looks like a USPS mistake to me.
That has been my opinion all along. The thing is I don't have the card. As far as I thought, it was on the seller to get the card to the buyer. I guess that is not true.
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Old 01-12-2012, 12:59 PM   #32 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by alexlazarevich View Post
If there is a DC# showing "Delivered" to your zip code, then you will lose the PayPal case. Further, if the seller used PayPal shipping, then PayPal would know if they shipped to your PayPal registered address because the transaction in the sellers PayPal account would show your address as the one being shipped to. You will lose the PayPal case.

If you were the seller, wouldn't you want PayPal to side with you as well? I mean a DC# showing delivery, what else can a seller do? How does the seller know you aren't trying to rip him/her off?

That being said, there is a "zip code scam", where a seller will use the PO for shipping and get a DC#, ship something to the same zip code as the buyer, and having given that DC# to PayPal, they would win the claim of item not received. But would a seller do that over a $15 item?

Most likely the USPS delivery man f'd up. It happens.

You have great feedback and are a well-standing member on this forum. If I was the seller I'd suggest a split the loss half-half kind of deal, and refund you $7.50. I'd take your word that it didn't arrive, even though the DC# says it did, and hope it didn't happen again.

Good luck whatever you do.
Is there something a seller can do to prevent being accused of this, or to be covered if the package is said to have not been received even though it shows delivered? In other words, is there a confirmation that can be bought to ensure that not only was the item delivered, but received by the buyer as well?
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Old 01-12-2012, 01:01 PM   #33 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by lemur01 View Post
Is there something a seller can do to prevent being accused of this, or to be covered if the package is said to have not been received even though it shows delivered? In other words, is there a confirmation that can be bought to ensure that not only was the item delivered, but received by the buyer as well?
Signature Confirmation.
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Old 01-12-2012, 01:02 PM   #34 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by ManInTheMirror View Post
That has been my opinion all along. The thing is I don't have the card. As far as I thought, it was on the seller to get the card to the buyer. I guess that is not true.
On Ebay this falls under Seller Protection - the seller knows this.

Look, the package says its there. He has know way to tell if you are scamming him or not. He just has to take your word and the word of everyone else who says this.
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Old 01-12-2012, 01:04 PM   #35 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Zerokruel View Post
Look, the package says its there. He has know way to tell if you are scamming him or not. He just has to take your word and the word of everyone else who says this.
I'm sorry, some can see this as me being on a FEEDBACK HIGH HORSE, but in my own personal case he does have a way to know I am not scamming him. And that is the fact that I am not scamming him.
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Old 01-12-2012, 01:07 PM   #36 (permalink)
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mitm, talk with your local post office about it ..
not that it will get u anywhere - but make a record of it at the post office in case it turns up

im still waiting for a package from an ebayer that was marked 'delivered' when i check usps.com [ i now have to think about using 'signature confirmation' instead of 'delivery confirmation'... though guess anyone can sign for it ugggh ]
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Old 01-12-2012, 01:14 PM   #37 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by ManInTheMirror View Post
I'm sorry, some can see this as me being on a FEEDBACK HIGH HORSE, but in my own personal case he does have a way to know I am not scamming him. And that is the fact that I am not scamming him.
A buyers feedback is pointless on ebay - negative can't be left on their account. So how would he know what kind of buyer you are?
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Old 01-12-2012, 01:14 PM   #38 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by alexlazarevich View Post
Signature Confirmation.
So if the seller failed to use this, then how does he win the payal case?

My thinking is this.

The seller doesn't use sig confirmation on all items because it isn't cost effective. The downside to this is that on occasion the buyer doesn't receive, despite the DC# showing delivery. IMO the seller loses this paypal case.

And I fully understand that this sucks for the seller, but isn't that technically how the system should work? Not taking sides per say, just trying to fully understand all this.
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Old 01-12-2012, 01:17 PM   #39 (permalink)
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Get off your damn high feedback horse. I'm the same guy I was with 5 feedback as I am nearing 200. A number is nothing more than a number. The seller sent a package which was probably misdelivered by the USPS. #@#@#@#@ happens. Good for you if you'd refund the $15. The seller is not obligated to do so, but I would if I were him just to shut you up.
MITM does not have what he paid for and you are jumping on him. I dont get that. Eric is a stand up guy. I am so sure of it I will make this offer to the seller. Refund Eric his money and I will send you the 15 dollars and when and if his card shows up Eric can pay me. Thats how sure I am of the fact that Eric is a stand up guy.
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Old 01-12-2012, 01:17 PM   #40 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Zerokruel View Post
A buyers feedback is pointless on ebay - negative can't be left on their account. So how would he know what kind of buyer you are?
I'm not on eBay...this has nothing to do with eBay...I'm lost to what the question is you are posing.

I have feedback here as a buyer, trader and seller. I like to think that people could trust me by now.
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Old 01-12-2012, 01:19 PM   #41 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by lemur01 View Post
So if the seller failed to use this, then how does he win the payal case?

My thinking is this.

The seller doesn't use sig confirmation on all items because it isn't cost effective. The downside to this is that on occasion the buyer doesn't receive, despite the DC# showing delivery. IMO the seller loses this paypal case.

And I fully understand that this sucks for the seller, but isn't that technically how the system should work? Not taking sides per say, just trying to fully understand all this.
Per PayPals seller protection Policy.

Quote:
Important Shipping Information
Depending on the type of claim or chargeback the buyer files, you will need to provide either Proof of Shipment or Proof of Delivery to get coverage.

If you're responding to an "item not received" claim or chargeback, you'll need to provide Proof of Delivery from a shipping company that meets the following conditions:

It shows the status as delivered.
It confirms the date the order was delivered.
It includes the recipient's address, including a minimum of the city & state, city & country or zip/postal code (or equivalent).
For payments of $250 USD (or local currency equivalent) or more, it includes proof of the recipient's signature to confirm delivery.
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Old 01-12-2012, 01:21 PM   #42 (permalink)
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if the deliv confirm # shows up as "delivered" and then the buyer says - "wtf, i never got it", the seller would win as the proof is the usps.com site showing "delivered"

the suggestion to request/use signature confirmation - is supposedly one measure of security that the buyer will really get the item .. and avoids the glitch of being marked "delivered" by the usps carrier .. as the proof would now be a "signature"

if item was insured and had only delivery confirm, im sure the buyer would lose again as the usps will go with their site and show tracking history ... if says "delivered", done.
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Old 01-12-2012, 01:21 PM   #43 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by ManInTheMirror View Post
I'm not on eBay...this has nothing to do with eBay...I'm lost to what the question is you are posing.

I have feedback here as a buyer, trader and seller. I like to think that people could trust me by now.
Gotcha - I saw your link to ebay. Thought that was the transaction and seller. Did not catch it was not completed.
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Old 01-12-2012, 01:22 PM   #44 (permalink)
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The seller would win the paypal case. Proof of delivery (DC status Delivered) is all that is required on <$250 items.

It seems as if its the PO's mistake, but in this case the loss would be on the buyer even on ultra-buyer-friendly ebay. It sucks either party has to take the loss, but thats the way it is. Had the post office lost the item before scanning it delivered, even if it shows tracking progress, the seller would be the one paying for the PO's mistake.
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Old 01-12-2012, 01:23 PM   #45 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lemur01 View Post
So if the seller failed to use this, then how does he win the payal case?

My thinking is this.

The seller doesn't use sig confirmation on all items because it isn't cost effective. The downside to this is that on occasion the buyer doesn't receive, despite the DC# showing delivery. IMO the seller loses this paypal case.

And I fully understand that this sucks for the seller, but isn't that technically how the system should work? Not taking sides per say, just trying to fully understand all this.
For items that cost less than $250, all a seller needs is a DC# showing "Delivered" and they will win an "item not received" case 99% of the time.

For items that cost $250 or more, the seller must use DC# and Signature Confirmation, then and only then will they be protected from "item not received" claims.

I'm not saying the above is fair, or even logical, I'm just saying that is what I understand eBay/PayPal rules as of today.
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Old 01-12-2012, 01:23 PM   #46 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by ohiomike View Post
The seller would win the paypal case. Proof of delivery (DC status Delivered) is all that is required on <$250 items.

It seems as if its the PO's mistake, but in this case the loss would be on the buyer even on ultra-buyer-friendly ebay. It sucks either party has to take the loss, but thats the way it is. Had the post office lost the item before scanning it delivered, even if it shows tracking progress, the seller would be the one paying for the PO's mistake.
Thanks for that.
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Old 01-12-2012, 01:24 PM   #47 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alexlazarevich View Post
For items that cost less than $250, all a seller needs is a DC# showing "Delivered" and they will win an "item not received" case 99% of the time.

For items that cost $250 or more, the seller must use DC# and Signature Confirmation, then and only then will they be protected from "item not received" claims.

I'm not saying the above is fair, or even logical, I'm just saying that is what I understand eBay/PayPal rules as of today.
Thank you. Did not know this.
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Old 01-12-2012, 01:28 PM   #48 (permalink)
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I get where paypal stands. I truly do. But I was more wondering what we as Blowout would do, being that this occured here. Do I leave a negative? Do I just lose the money? I get that it's he said she said so that leads me to believe that if I leave a negative it would just be removed. But does he deserve a negative? He did his part, he sent. The error was probably not on him (being a postal error). I tend to believe that a negative would be due. It makes you think, you can complete a deal with anyone and pull the zip code trick and get away with it completely. Also, this makes it hard for any seller to ever want to take a person's word that they didn't receive and issue a refund. Why bother, when nothing would ever be done if you didn't issue the refund.

I sent a member in Hawaii a card that was almost $200. This same issue occured, the DC showed delivered but even 4 days later still no card anywhere. I was already getting ready to refund him. Guess I wouldn't have had to technically. But I would have anyway.
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Old 01-12-2012, 01:31 PM   #49 (permalink)
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This is all so very simple:

The seller did everything right, and the buyer is not asking for anything unreasonable, and the seller is well within his legal, ethical, and "just do the right thing" limits as to whether or not he chooses to refund the money. No one here can truly fault either party, and whatever is decided between those two people should stay between those two people.

I really can't understand why people are blowing this far out of proportion. To the OP - why invite this animosity to yourself and the seller by creating this thread? No one has done anything wrong, and any logic-minded person can see that. This is most likely an issue beyond either of your control and even claiming that there is any impropriety by the seller as absurd. This issue should never have been brought up in a thread.

Leaving a negative would be the most wrong thing that has occurred with this transaction and I truly hope if you do leave one, a mod will remove it; the seller did nothing wrong or shady.
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Old 01-12-2012, 01:33 PM   #50 (permalink)
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i dont belive a negative is warranted. just dont deal with him again. i bought a card last month. the card never arrived but he didnt DC it either. i told him not to worry it was only $10 he has good history. but he refunded anyways. some ppl are just stand up guys.
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