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Old 06-05-2012, 10:58 AM   #201 (permalink)
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1) no one 'supports' him. No one in this thread said they do. But at the same time he didn't murder someone or steal their money. Its not as serious as the size of this thread and the comments warrant.

2) That is not the same situation at all. The card never left the house. And if this were ebay, he could very easily return the card if he found another one cheaper, they practically force you to have a return policy. Does that make it allowable on this place? Probably not, but its not like this place has a formal trading system in place.
It is the same.

He sold the card then changed his mind over a few $$. Answer my question because you obviously support him.. If I bought a card from you for $100, would you refund my money when I changed my mind? YES OR NO?

The card might not have left his house, but the money definately left Pauls account. The transaction was met with foul when the seller broke the agreement over a few bucks.
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Old 06-05-2012, 11:01 AM   #202 (permalink)
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1) no one 'supports' him. No one in this thread said they do. But at the same time he didn't murder someone or steal their money. Its not as serious as the size of this thread and the comments warrant.

2) That is not the same situation at all. The card never left the house. And if this were ebay, he could very easily return the card if he found another one cheaper, they practically force you to have a return policy. Does that make it allowable on this place? Probably not, but its not like this place has a formal trading system in place.
He did steal the buyers money. Just because he didn't take it out of his hand didn't mean he didn't take it. This is where the fundamental flaw lies. Again if someone did this to you on eBay you wouldn't have the sympathy that you do.

If they agreed to the sale, and the seller backed out before sending his paypal, then it's just lame. It's not stealing - just dumb.

The dude took his money. Cards were paid for. Those cards at that point were no longer his. He has an obligation to send them. The fact that he then sold them for a higher price (not just changed his mind and kept them for himself) means he stole $25 from the buyer.

It's the Best Buy example. If I bought and paid for a TV for $199, they never brought it out of the back (so never "shipped it") and instead decided to sell it for a dude outside the store for $299 then they stole $100 from me as it was my item. They had no right to sell it as it was my property at that point.
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Old 06-05-2012, 11:01 AM   #203 (permalink)
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OJ - I would allow the buyer to return the card, but the buyer must pay me a $60 restocking fee. I have an intricate catalog system.
LOL.

I hate this mentality by some novice members that you can do whatever you want without having to face the consequences of your actions. Such a new wave of thinking that it wont affect you. THey are like petty criminals thinking backwards, that if they lie, cheat and steal, its ok as long as you didnt kill someone in the process. Then they wonder why they cant find a job or why cant survive.

Im not about wishing ill upon others but ive said this many times before... THe preception of these lost individuals will not change untill its done to them. Only then will they realize the side of the loss. Its a shame that in order to teach this lesson, they will have to suffer for it. Its like a small child burning himself on a hot stove. He must get hurt for him to understand the consquences of his action.
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Old 06-05-2012, 11:05 AM   #204 (permalink)
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It is the same.

He sold the card then changed his mind over a few $$. Answer my question because you obviously support him.. If I bought a card from you for $100, would you refund my money when I changed my mind? YES OR NO?

The card might not have left his house, but the money definately left Pauls account. The transaction was met with foul when the seller broke the agreement over a few bucks.
Find one place where I or anyone else think what he did was acceptable. In his first post he even said 'guilty as charged.' I'm not sure if you mean changed your mind before I sent the card out or after, but in either case yes. Maybe you should read my first or second post in this thread because I had an opportunity to back out of a deal for more money than $25 and I never considered it.
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Old 06-05-2012, 11:05 AM   #205 (permalink)
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LOL.

I hate this mentality by some novice members that you can do whatever you want without having to face the consequences of your actions. Such a new wave of thinking that it wont affect you. THey are like petty criminals thinking backwards, that if they lie, cheat and steal, its ok as long as you didnt kill someone in the process. Then they wonder why they cant find a job or why cant survive.
That's what has surprised me most in this thread, the exact attitude you've captured in the bolded part.
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Old 06-05-2012, 11:06 AM   #206 (permalink)
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Lets stop equating this in terms of cards - maybe that is what is warping a few members minds...

If I bought a stock from my broker for $5,000, trade was completed and I paid for the stock, but my broker calls me later and tells me he decided he didn't want to sell me the stocks I already paid for so he never put the transaction though...

In the meantime that stock went up 20% (equivalent to the $70-$90) - so I lost out on the ability to make $1,000 because the broker "changed his mind"

Did he steal $1,000 from me? He sure as hell did.

Just because the card buyer might not have instantaneous ability to sell (like a stock) doesn't mean he couldn't have researched and found the buyer willing to pay $90.00

The fact that it's only $20 is irrelevant.
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Old 06-05-2012, 11:21 AM   #207 (permalink)
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Lets stop equating this in terms of cards - maybe that is what is warping a few members minds...

If I bought a stock from my broker for $5,000, trade was completed and I paid for the stock, but my broker calls me later and tells me he decided he didn't want to sell me the stocks I already paid for so he never put the transaction though...

In the meantime that stock went up 20% (equivalent to the $70-$90) - so I lost out on the ability to make $1,000 because the broker "changed his mind"

Did he steal $1,000 from me? He sure as hell did.

Just because the card buyer might not have instantaneous ability to sell (like a stock) doesn't mean he couldn't have researched and found the buyer willing to pay $90.00

The fact that it's only $20 is irrelevant.

I reluctantly admit I read this entire thread. I dare to say that logic left this thread before page one ended. I believe OJ identified the culprit, a new generation of attitudes. Several members logical reasoning crossed the border into absurdity. These members would attempt to use deductive reasoning to prove that ladybugs poop gold nuggets and I think they would actually believe their argument.
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Old 06-05-2012, 11:23 AM   #208 (permalink)
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Find one place where I or anyone else think what he did was acceptable. In his first post he even said 'guilty as charged.' I'm not sure if you mean changed your mind before I sent the card out or after, but in either case yes. Maybe you should read my first or second post in this thread because I had an opportunity to back out of a deal for more money than $25 and I never considered it.
The guilty party attempts to admit his mistake, but every single time he adds a qualification. Doing so negates the admittance.
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Old 06-05-2012, 11:27 AM   #209 (permalink)
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because paul wanted to be entertained tonight and rile up the boards..you know how this works im sure well if you have been a member on blowoutcards for a bit,the $25 isnt the issue here i will refund the rodman collector $25 rightnow.
$25 isn't the issue..?..so did u refund the buyer
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Old 06-05-2012, 11:28 AM   #210 (permalink)
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OK... So understand I'm new here. So before mad flaming... I get what penny did was wrong... He has his own justification I guess. But what I'm lost on... It seems to me that the general reaction is a bit heavy handed (from the community in general) of course he's wrong... But this thread is getting pretty vicious to me.... Not sure I'd want to deal with anybody involved here as the action reaction seems crazy to me. Am I lost?? And like i said I understand OP being mad... But this just seems over the top lynching angry villagers coming after Frankenstein style to me lol
Welcome to BO, these are the things people here do to keep people honest! If you're good with your words, you shouldn't have to worry about these type of mob attacks!
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Old 06-05-2012, 11:30 AM   #211 (permalink)
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The guilty party attempts to admit his mistake, but every single time he adds a qualification. Doing so negates the admittance.
Bingo - that's what some people are missing.

All he had to do from Page #1 was say "I made a bad decision - I'll shoot you $20 to cover your loss and I apologize"

And this thread would be over.

In at least 5-10 posts the seller changes why he did it.

In Post #4 he needed Money, then he only wanted to sell to a Rodman Collector (forget the extra cash I guess), then he doesn't want to sell to a flipper, then the buyer was too rude so he didn't want to sell to him, then somehow it made sense to him to send $$ back to the $90 guy...

Not to mention he lied later when he said he didn't care about the money - I was waiting for Post #4 to be edited since it clearly states he wanted the extra cash...

I've never seen a thread go 10 pages when the solution is probably the most cut and dry solution ever since there are only 2 solutions

1 - Give the $20 to the buyer and move on with your negative you still deserve
2 - Admit you wanted the extra cash, you won't send the $20 as you don't care about your reputation, and move on with your negative.

The seller has done neither.

There are no other options.
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Last edited by asujbl; 06-05-2012 at 11:33 AM.
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Old 06-05-2012, 11:54 AM   #212 (permalink)
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Bingo - that's what some people are missing.

All he had to do from Page #1 was say "I made a bad decision - I'll shoot you $20 to cover your loss and I apologize"

And this thread would be over.

In at least 5-10 posts the seller changes why he did it.

In Post #4 he needed Money, then he only wanted to sell to a Rodman Collector (forget the extra cash I guess), then he doesn't want to sell to a flipper, then the buyer was too rude so he didn't want to sell to him, then somehow it made sense to him to send $$ back to the $90 guy...

Not to mention he lied later when he said he didn't care about the money - I was waiting for Post #4 to be edited since it clearly states he wanted the extra cash...

I've never seen a thread go 10 pages when the solution is probably the most cut and dry solution ever since there are only 2 solutions

1 - Give the $20 to the buyer and move on with your negative you still deserve
2 - Admit you wanted the extra cash, you won't send the $20 as you don't care about your reputation, and move on with your negative.

The seller has done neither.

There are no other options.
The seller wants the 3rd option: To have mod delete this thread and he continues with his shady business practice.
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Old 06-05-2012, 12:08 PM   #213 (permalink)
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get over it people,nobody is supporting my decision..nor anyone should.I admitted to doing the un popular thing but i did what i thought was best.Was it the most moral thing to do no? but i was honest from the very beginning i am sorry.Those who choose to not do business with me that is fine by me,move on? what is there left to debate? Some of you have nothing better to do than sit on your computer and spew venom all day/night long?
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Old 06-05-2012, 12:14 PM   #214 (permalink)
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I would like to piggyback this thread on my situation with this penny1fan. From my experience, I really don't think he is a honest person, but I wouldn't say he is a theif. But then, in this hobby, "trust" is very important as we all know.

Anyway, we both had a deal in HK about 2 months ago. He agreed to send me card with tracking. I paid with paypal. 1 week passed by, he PMed me that he changed his mind and wanted to send the cards through PWE to save money. I don't know about him or anyone, but for 2 cards that worth $100 were in PWE! And on top of it, it is wet PWE (possible due to rain). One of the card has some wet edge due to leak of the water through the PWE.

So, I PMed him back about this situation. My main concern was the PWE because we did not agree on this part. Here are some of the words that I received from Penny1fan:

"I personally know for whatever reason you dont like me because i collect Penny.I don't know if its a weird jealousy issue with you or what? but i will be sure to not comment on any of your threads attempting to be cool with a fellow Penny collector because i tried in the past and got the cold shoulder.I knew you would recieve these cards and find something to complain about simply because you are bitter towards me for whatever reason."

"im suprised the neigbor's dog didnt chew the package aswell?"

I still have not put down feedback for this deal as I am waiting for HK mod's response. But for myself, I don't think I can make another deal with this dude. It is just so much headache to deal with.
once again i am sorry for your previous experience but i have shipped many PWE cards and they are always well protected in team bags that are sealed.I simply did not believe your complaints,and neither did fellow collectors i spoke to.You can place a card in top loader along with a sealed team bag and place it under running water and its near impossible for water to get inside the sealed team bag so no dude i did not buy your theory.The main reason is because you never mentioned the thought of returning them to me for a refund you basically just wanted to spew hostility upon me..I have a good idea to why you have never seemed to get along with me/nor acknowledge my mailday's or any posts for that matter.. since i have joined the boards but i will not get into that fellow Penny collector
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Old 06-05-2012, 12:19 PM   #215 (permalink)
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once again i am sorry for your previous experience but i have shipped many PWE cards and they are always well protected in team bags that are sealed.I simply did not believe your complaints,and neither did fellow collectors i spoke to.You can place a card in top loader along with a sealed team bag and place it under running water and its near impossible for water to get inside the sealed team bag so no dude i did not buy your theory.The main reason is because you never mentioned the thought of returning them to me for a refund you basically just wanted to spew hostility upon me..I have a good idea to why you have never seemed to get along with me/nor acknowledge my mailday's or any posts for that matter.. since i have joined the boards but i will not get into that fellow Penny collector
I doubt you will refund me even I shipped by the cards as I just don't trust you anymore.

And with this thread, I made correct decision by not dealing with you.

Lastly, I don't think you are really "sorry". You just type it, not really mean it.
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Old 06-05-2012, 12:23 PM   #216 (permalink)
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I doubt you will refund me even I shipped by the cards as I just don't trust you anymore.

And with this thread, I made correct decision by not dealing with you.

Lastly, I don't think you are really "sorry". You just type it, not really mean it.
I find it comical that some people think "Sorry" excuses you of wrong doing and theft.

Penny, eventhough I have had no issues with you, I still think you need to pay for your crimes. If you go unpunished, then you havent learned the lesson. You will do it over and over and over again, thinking that a "Sorry" will relieve you of any moral and legal agreement structures.

Why must the rest of us suffer at your hands when you were the wrong party?
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Old 06-05-2012, 12:33 PM   #217 (permalink)
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Don't feel like reading the entire thread, but from the 1st page, it sounds like penny1fan's morals/character can be bought for $25?
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Old 06-05-2012, 12:45 PM   #218 (permalink)
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Don't feel like reading the entire thread, but from the 1st page, it sounds like penny1fan's morals/character can be bought for $25?
+1 For this guy
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Old 06-05-2012, 12:45 PM   #219 (permalink)
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Don't feel like reading the entire thread, but from the 1st page, it sounds like penny1fan's morals/character can be bought for $25?
or just simply how i am talked to as a person

and xavier that was what sir? 2 months ago now? get real..keep up the fairytales,i hope the cards i am sending out today don't end up in lake Michigan on their way to their destination..i placed little bobbers on them
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Old 06-05-2012, 12:51 PM   #220 (permalink)
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or just simply how i am talked to as a person

and xavier that was what sir? 2 months ago now? get real..keep up the fairytales,i hope the cards i am sending out today don't end up in lake Michigan on their way to their destination..i placed little bobbers on them
You being snide doesn't really help your case =\

Doesn't matter if it's two months ago or two days ago. The Aussie card forum has the right idea where they REQUIRE you to send in a bubble mailer. Common courtesy amongst collectors to send in a bubble mailer. The PWE saved you all of what? $2?

Moral of this thread is, don't deal with penny unless you are willing to take the chance of having the rug swept out from under you. Wish this site had a MUST SEND FIRST banner like the other site.
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Old 06-05-2012, 01:06 PM   #221 (permalink)
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or just simply how i am talked to as a person

and xavier that was what sir? 2 months ago now? get real..keep up the fairytales,i hope the cards i am sending out today don't end up in lake Michigan on their way to their destination..i placed little bobbers on them


So, because I got angry that you undersold me to put more $$ in your greedy hands, it's justified?



You simply cannot be for real, for your sake, I honestly hope this is all a charade you are putting on and this is not how your mind actually works.


"I stole money from the bank and then the bank owner yelled at me, so now I don't feel like they deserve the money back!"

You are incredible.
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Old 06-05-2012, 01:06 PM   #222 (permalink)
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or just simply how i am talked to as a person

and xavier that was what sir? 2 months ago now? get real..keep up the fairytales,i hope the cards i am sending out today don't end up in lake Michigan on their way to their destination..i placed little bobbers on them
I don't get your logic. You want the package in the lake? You sent in PWE. It has no tracking. If it really goes into the lake, I get my money back, and you lose the cards. Is it what you really want?
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Old 06-05-2012, 01:11 PM   #223 (permalink)
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get over it people,nobody is supporting my decision..nor anyone should.I admitted to doing the un popular thing but i did what i thought was best.Was it the most moral thing to do no? but i was honest from the very beginning i am sorry.Those who choose to not do business with me that is fine by me,move on? what is there left to debate? Some of you have nothing better to do than sit on your computer and spew venom all day/night long?
Dude - you've lied in this very thread multiple times - like I've said (and you ignored)

You've said multiple times you didn't care about the money...

and in Post #4 you said, more then once, you needed the extra money.

You haven't been honest since Post #4 - but keep ignoring that fact.
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Old 06-05-2012, 02:00 PM   #224 (permalink)
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get over it trolls,it's done Paul i am sorry you had to get pushy and talk down to me because of that you lost out on a few cards in the future you should tend to not talk down to someone and maybe help come to a resolution..what's done is done move on now.

as for xavier i am not being snide...haters are gonna hate when it comes to you sir and in this hobby it's rather childish you will not own every single Penny card and neither will i ..i have accepted that fact when i started collected Penny at the age of 11.So you should probably move on aswell

for the last time what's done is done move on..nothing to see here feel free to ignore me as a user for those who feel is though you cannot deal with me in the future,I have nothing else to say about this manner.I made the unpopular decision for my own personal reasons and understand the backlash..but let's pack up the lawnchairs and put out the fire now
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Old 06-05-2012, 02:04 PM   #225 (permalink)
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get over it trolls,it's done Paul i am sorry you had to get pushy and talk down to me because of that you lost out on a few cards in the future you should tend to not talk down to someone and maybe help come to a resolution..what's done is done move on now.

as for xavier i am not being snide...haters are gonna hate when it comes to you sir and in this hobby it's rather childish you will not own every single Penny card and neither will i ..i have accepted that fact when i started collected Penny at the age of 11.So you should probably move on aswell

for the last time what's done is done move on..nothing to see here feel free to ignore me as a user for those who feel is though you cannot deal with me in the future,I have nothing else to say about this manner.I made the unpopular decision for my own personal reasons and understand the backlash..but let's pack up the lawnchairs and put out the fire now
Im sorry but you cannot commit a crime and think you can go unpunished. If anything this falls under "negating a contractual tranaction". Should lead to a ban from trading if anything. The punishment of losing trading/buying/selling privledges seems fitting for a punishment.

Why should the rest of us have to suffer for your mistakes and short comings?
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