eBay buyer to block, if you value your DSRs ...

[37Jetson]

Ah the smell of Hypocrisy in the morning! Or is that the smell of Cowardice?

I cannot understand how an Ebay seller can be so willing to damage the business of other sellers. Too many low DSR's can cost sellers their Ebay Discounts and possibly get them removed as a seller.

Originally Posted by houdini

Actually, I can say you are not being honest. Do you think I did not know the answers before I asked?

Now, I do not think your shipping rates are high, but I do know you are not being honest. Seemed obvious when you refused to back it up.

You have great feedback and you usually leave positive feedback - although I cannot know what DSR's you leave.

I have no dog in this fight at all and do not mean you any ill will, but you did lie.

Not all your auctions are free shipping and you charge $2.50 for 1 card - more than the OP.

EDIT: $2.50 is same as the OP, not more.

[calculusdork]

Originally Posted by 37Jetson

I cannot understand how an Ebay seller can be so willing to damage the business of other sellers. Too many low DSR's can cost sellers their Ebay Discounts and possibly get them removed as a seller.

Completely agree. At this point, I'm not even that concerned about the discounts themselves. Fine, let those be for the sellers that offer free shipping on everything and are completely willing to lose money ... whatever. But it is absolutely crazy that eBay would place so much power into a single buyer's hands, that he/she could potentially take down a seller. If eBay rules in the buyer's favor in my case, I have lost any potential for TRS, PowerSeller, or even "Above Standard" for at least the next few months. All because of one buyer. Again, not only have I had many repeat buyers already, who recognize that I provide top-notch service ... but this was also my first DSR ding below a 4. All because of one buyer.

[nuccionino]

Originally Posted by calculusdork

Finally decided to jump back into this thread ...

I would say that even this is not the problem. The real issue is that eBay gives singular buyers the power to take down a seller. I am all for buyers being able to rate sellers' performances. But eBay's implementation of this gives too much power to the buyers, and oftentimes leaves sellers powerless.

In my situation -- you know what, if the buyer was unhappy with my shipping charges, then let him ding away. But ding only one card, don't ding all four. I effectively charged the buyer $0.50 to ship cards 2-4, and he gave me 2's on those. Even a 1 and three 3's would have been more justifiable than what he did.

This, eBay gives a buyer the power to decide if a seller can continue to sell. I was banned for a 4.7 DSR rating. 600 positive feedback didn't matter. DSR can control the fate of sellers and that is the issue.

[Craig]

Originally Posted by nuccionino

This, eBay gives a buyer the power to decide if a seller can continue to sell. I was banned for a 4.7 DSR rating. 600 positive feedback didn't matter. DSR can control the fate of sellers and that is the issue.

This is where I see the problem lying with Ebay standards, and not necessarily with either the buyer or seller. I think the buyer should have a right to give DSR ratings that they deem appropriate, although the fact that no justification is needed for such a grade remains a concern.

Where the problem lies is that Ebay expects everyone to have extremely high DSRs, or else risk losing their selling rights. This neuters the sellers because they're forced in many cases to take a hit on shipping so as not to see their DSRs suffer, and it also negatively impacts the buyer who doesn't want their "4 out of 5" to be the straw that breaks the camel's back.

Regardless of feelings on how you should rank sellers regarding their shipping, I think most people would agree that the system is broken.

[calculusdork]

Originally Posted by Craig

This is where I see the problem lying with Ebay standards, and not necessarily with either the buyer or seller. I think the buyer should have a right to give DSR ratings that they deem appropriate, although the fact that no justification is needed for such a grade remains a concern.

Where the problem lies is that Ebay expects everyone to have extremely high DSRs, or else risk losing their selling rights. This neuters the sellers because they're forced in many cases to take a hit on shipping so as not to see their DSRs suffer, and it also negatively impacts the buyer who doesn't want their "4 out of 5" to be the straw that breaks the camel's back.

Regardless of feelings on how you should rank sellers regarding their shipping, I think most people would agree that the system is broken.

This just came to me.

Why in the heck are eBay's DSR ratings done on an absolute scale? Why can't they be done on a relative scale, rankings-style?

Why am I judged by some arbitrary rating scale? Why am I not judged directly with respect to all my fellow sellers? This way, even if I am dinged in a particular category by some rogue buyer, I could potentially still be a "Top 5% Seller" or whatever.

Rankings could be partitioned by category, so that if I happen to sell many different types of items (e.g. baseball cards, hair products, rare Asian lamps), I would have a potentially different ranking for each category, depending on my performance in each one.

I realize I'm not breaking any new ground here, but the current scaling is arbitrary at best, as evidenced by this thread.

/rambling

[nuccionino]

What will be sad is if you are selling cards to the east coast on eBay, be ready for shipping time DSR hits. I mean some buyers expect their cards to appear in their mailbox the moment they pay..

[houdini]

Originally Posted by nuccionino

What will be sad is if you are selling cards to the east coast on eBay, be ready for shipping time DSR hits. I mean some buyers expect their cards to appear in their mailbox the moment they pay..

eBay will put a big notice on the feedback page. It will help this the vast majority of the time.

It will say something like - eBay sellers on the east coast experienced power outtages of several days due to Hurricane Sandy. Please take this into consideration when leaving feedback. (Or some such)

[cking]

Originally Posted by nuccionino

What will be sad is if you are selling cards to the east coast on eBay, be ready for shipping time DSR hits. I mean some buyers expect their cards to appear in their mailbox the moment they pay..

I am dead smack in the middle of this storm in NY. I sent messages to anyone who bought from me this weekend on Ebay that there could be a slight delay in shipping. I guess I just lucked out because they could not have been any nicer or understanding about it. Packages did manage to go out today though

[Ray27Ray52]

Originally Posted by cking

Packages did manage to go out today though

How dare you ship your packages out in spite of actual life threatening events? What unmitigated gall you have not making excuses about unicorns falling from the sky and family members falling off of rooftops. God Bless!

[uberfatty]

Originally Posted by calculusdork

Few things to address here:

(1) First off, my apologies for being rude. That's not my style, and I'm sorry I presented myself that way.

(2) If you are not trying to be rude, then you should not say things like "maybe eBay isn't the place for you", because that is indeed rude.

(3) You set a very high standard for yourself as a seller, and that is to be applauded. However, if you are going to give me a 4-star rating to charge you more than $2 to ship 4 cards, then I would like your eBay ID so I can block you, because it costs me $2.15 to ship 4 cards, and I've got this stuff pretty much down to a science. I sincerely challenge you to show us how you do better than that.

(4) I think you, like many other eBay buyers out there, are misusing the eBay "Shipping Charges" DSR. When a seller specifically states the shipping cost, then why would you purchase an item from that seller (especially a common item) if you are opposed to the shipping charge? In this instance, the buyer purchased multiple cards from me knowing that I combined shipping, and knowing my combined rate ... and then turned around to ding me. Also, this from eBay: "Remember that sellers may charge for the cost of the actual packaging materials, along with a reasonable handling fee to cover the seller's time and direct costs associated with shipping." Obviously the amount here is up for interpretation, but you get what I'm saying ... and you have ignored this aspect of the shipping charge.

All that said ... I do appreciate your feedback actually, but I think you will find that you are in the minority.

Hey Calc, do you have a link to the bold part above? That rule may be new, as I seem to recall eBay explicitly stating that handling time wasn't part of the allowable shipping charge calculation. IIRC, allowable charges were just the cost of the materials and postage previously (not even gas to drive to the PO, or eBay/PP fees). Maybe I'm just misremembering though.

Anyways, IMO the problem with JRB's argument is that he is treating the situation like the extra $2 comes out of the buyer's pocket, when in reality it comes out of the final price of the auction.

IE: Card sells for $8 + $4 shipping = same card at $2 shipping will go for $10 at auction. It's not "stealing" because the DLVD price will end up being the same.

Buyer knows the cost going in and adjusts bid accordingly, and then dings for the "added" shipping cost? Puh-lease.

[uberfatty]

Originally Posted by cking

I am dead smack in the middle of this storm in NY. I sent messages to anyone who bought from me this weekend on Ebay that there could be a slight delay in shipping. I guess I just lucked out because they could not have been any nicer or understanding about it. Packages did manage to go out today though

I had this exact situation with a seller that messaged me this morning, and I told them to stay safe and they don't need to worry about getting the card in the mail until the storm is over. Sucks that sellers have to even worry about a buyer not taking this into consideration, but that's what eBay is coming to.

[calculusdork]

Originally Posted by uberfatty

Hey Calc, do you have a link to the bold part above? That rule may be new, as I seem to recall eBay explicitly stating that handling time wasn't part of the allowable shipping charge calculation. IIRC, allowable charges were just the cost of the materials and postage previously (not even gas to drive to the PO, or eBay/PP fees). Maybe I'm just misremembering though.

Anyways, IMO the problem with JRB's argument is that he is treating the situation like the extra $2 comes out of the buyer's pocket, when in reality it comes out of the final price of the auction.

IE: Card sells for $8 + $4 shipping = same card at $2 shipping will go for $10 at auction. It's not "stealing" because the DLVD price will end up being the same.

Buyer knows the cost going in and adjusts bid accordingly, and then dings for the "added" shipping cost? Puh-lease.

Yes sir, right on the eBay DSR main page. (I can't see it from work so I'm assuming it is there ... that's where I found it yesterday, I think.)

[brentandbecca]

I have to ask why some of us, myself included, ever waste time to post threads like this on such a big board, lol
They always go down the toilet and waste time, we all have more important things in life
There are other boards that are smaller and even by invite only where say case breakers can share ideas/thoughts/info, and not have the thread go to crap because folks jump in & out

Every time I come here I am reminded of this and it is sad

Anyhow, I have many problems with all of this
BUT first it should be known as I have said before eBay is revamping all feedback and DSRs next year and will include a new way to leave buyers feedback once again...I hope it is very good but always have my doubts til seeing it

Also, for buyers to be able to leave stars on shipping charges is absurd IMO, they know the charges ahead of time, only exceptions to me is if they CHANGE the charges after the auction or if they say they are shipping fast like priority and then do first class, THAT was one of big reasons ebay first brought that...it is also a reason eBay has backed away a lot from pushing free shipping, they didn't think that those offering free would start shipping by not only slower methods and less protective materials, but in the card world, the PWE became huge again, HENCE a big reason why they now require tracking info so not many PWE

Same goes for shipping time, if tracking uploaded and item shipped and scanned in, how is it seller's fault if it takes a week or longer to get there....a local sorting facility was without power for 3 days and caused major delays close by last month and with storms, and weather, etc, or just getting lost (as I have had packages take 3-12 months before, which 'll never understand)

My stars are all 4.9 or 5 and I am usually top rated seller. I have had shipping of $2.99 for years now (other than a 5 week free ship experiment almost 2 years back now) and always had 50 cents per item maxed out at $5.99. There are other 'costs' associated with shipping not just postage and supplies, but gas/mileage/time & yes ebay & pp charge fees based off shipping, so if my costs are $2 to ship and I charge $3 and ebay and pp take 40+ cents from that than that is a cost of shipping. That is why there is such a thing as a handling fee so SHIPPING & HANDLING... I have rarely had complaints on my shipping charges, maybe 2 a year and that is selling 10,000s items per year. Most people can read and understand, plus are happy to combine ship and not pay X amount over and over by getting cards from multiple sellers

anyhow, just my thoughts, everyone can have an opinion, but I agree that allowing buyers to dictate what discounts a seller receives is a bit too much, I would rather not mess with the discount honestly...and from talking to ebay and running my own dsr reports, the worst ones are other sellers trying to bring down the averages of sellers, buyers that are mostly buyers only tend to leave highest marks and ebay knows this

[uberfatty]

Originally Posted by calculusdork

Yes sir, right on the eBay DSR main page. (I can't see it from work so I'm assuming it is there ... that's where I found it yesterday, I think.)

This is funny -- I think eBay has different rules depending on where you look. Check this link: Selling practices policy

Under "Policy Overview -> Shipping and Handling Costs -> What you're not allowed to charge" you find this:

Related fees: Things like gas, mileage, time spent at a carrier, employee wages, or eBay and PayPal fees shouldn't be added.

Now I'm just confused.

[calculusdork]

Originally Posted by uberfatty

This is funny -- I think eBay has different rules depending on where you look. Check this link: Selling practices policy

Under "Policy Overview -> Shipping and Handling Costs -> What you're not allowed to charge" you find this:

Related fees: Things like gas, mileage, time spent at a carrier, employee wages, or eBay and PayPal fees shouldn't be added.

Now I'm just confused.

Perhaps. But you are allowed to charge a "reasonable handling fee" to cover your time. So just integrate your costs into that. I think that is very reasonable.

[uberfatty]

Originally Posted by calculusdork

Perhaps. But you are allowed to charge a "reasonable handling fee" to cover your time. So just integrate your costs into that. I think that is very reasonable.

Agreed -- I just wish thre was one place where everything was explicitly stated, so sellers had more ammunition to bring up against bogus DSR hits.

[Dacubs]

Originally Posted by calculusdork

Consider that it would have cost the buyer $8-$10 in shipping to buy the cards from 4 different buyers. Is $0.50 per card really all that much?

For the record, I have since come down to $0.25 per card for combined shipping.

$0.25 is much more reasonable...but the statement bolded above is the same argument people use for COMC

[37Jetson]

Thank you for the time to capture a fantastic summary of this situation.

Originally Posted by brentandbecca

I have to ask why some of us, myself included, ever waste time to post threads like this on such a big board, lol
They always go down the toilet and waste time, we all have more important things in life
There are other boards that are smaller and even by invite only where say case breakers can share ideas/thoughts/info, and not have the thread go to crap because folks jump in & out

Every time I come here I am reminded of this and it is sad

Anyhow, I have many problems with all of this
BUT first it should be known as I have said before eBay is revamping all feedback and DSRs next year and will include a new way to leave buyers feedback once again...I hope it is very good but always have my doubts til seeing it

Also, for buyers to be able to leave stars on shipping charges is absurd IMO, they know the charges ahead of time, only exceptions to me is if they CHANGE the charges after the auction or if they say they are shipping fast like priority and then do first class, THAT was one of big reasons ebay first brought that...it is also a reason eBay has backed away a lot from pushing free shipping, they didn't think that those offering free would start shipping by not only slower methods and less protective materials, but in the card world, the PWE became huge again, HENCE a big reason why they now require tracking info so not many PWE

Same goes for shipping time, if tracking uploaded and item shipped and scanned in, how is it seller's fault if it takes a week or longer to get there....a local sorting facility was without power for 3 days and caused major delays close by last month and with storms, and weather, etc, or just getting lost (as I have had packages take 3-12 months before, which 'll never understand)

My stars are all 4.9 or 5 and I am usually top rated seller. I have had shipping of $2.99 for years now (other than a 5 week free ship experiment almost 2 years back now) and always had 50 cents per item maxed out at $5.99. There are other 'costs' associated with shipping not just postage and supplies, but gas/mileage/time & yes ebay & pp charge fees based off shipping, so if my costs are $2 to ship and I charge $3 and ebay and pp take 40+ cents from that than that is a cost of shipping. That is why there is such a thing as a handling fee so SHIPPING & HANDLING... I have rarely had complaints on my shipping charges, maybe 2 a year and that is selling 10,000s items per year. Most people can read and understand, plus are happy to combine ship and not pay X amount over and over by getting cards from multiple sellers

anyhow, just my thoughts, everyone can have an opinion, but I agree that allowing buyers to dictate what discounts a seller receives is a bit too much, I would rather not mess with the discount honestly...and from talking to ebay and running my own dsr reports, the worst ones are other sellers trying to bring down the averages of sellers, buyers that are mostly buyers only tend to leave highest marks and ebay knows this

[zachtruitt]

Jeez, to me it's so simple...IF YOU DON'T LIKE THE SHIPPING PRICE, DON'T BID!!!!
Why cry like a baby about shipping prices???? If you don't like what people charge you have absolute freedom to not buy from them!

[BostonNut]

Let me preface this situation by saying I WOULD NEVER DO THIS but I just want to hear everyone's thoughts on it:

The last card you need for a set is on eBay for a $1.75 Buy it Now price with $6.00 shipping. You have been looking for this card for MONTHS and it is the first time it has popped up. Are you folks really going to say it is WRONG to ding the seller's shipping price DSR?

AGAIN...I WOULD NEVER DO THIS. I always give out five stars for every category unless something goes terribly wrong. I'm curious where you folks stand...

[cking]

Originally Posted by BostonNut

Let me preface this situation by saying I WOULD NEVER DO THIS but I just want to hear everyone's thoughts on it:

The last card you need for a set is on eBay for a $1.75 Buy it Now price with $6.00 shipping. You have been looking for this card for MONTHS and it is the first time it has popped up. Are you folks really going to say it is WRONG to ding the seller's shipping price DSR?

AGAIN...I WOULD NEVER DO THIS. I always give out five stars for every category unless something goes terribly wrong. I'm curious where you folks stand...

I am in the middle. I will pay a ridiculous shipping fee if I want the item bad enough but I will let you know what I think of your high shipping rate thru a dsr ding. Thats what the shipping price dsr is for is it not? To show what you think of a sellers shipping price? Just because you are willing to pay a high shipping rate does not necessairly mean you have to agree with or like it.

[BostonNut]

Originally Posted by cking

I am in the middle. I will pay a ridiculous shipping fee if I want the item bad enough but I will let you know what I think of your high shipping rate thru a dsr ding. Thats what the shipping price dsr is for is it not? To show what you think of a sellers shipping price? Just because you are willing to pay a high shipping rate does not necessairly mean you have to agree with or like it.

Bingo. I don't understand those folks who say it is wrong to ding a DSR just because you bought the item. If people are upset at the shipping price they paid then they have the right to voice the displeasure...

By the way...love the hurricane signature!

[cking]

Originally Posted by BostonNut

Bingo. I don't understand those folks who say it is wrong to ding a DSR just because you bought the item. If people are upset at the shipping price they paid then they have the right to voice the displeasure...

By the way...love the hurricane signature!

Thanks. It is nasty, and I mean nasty hear right now. I understand both sides of the argument. The thing that aggravates me the most is that people complain about Ebay and thier policies, yet they have choices to avoid the problem they have with Ebay and they choose not to utilize those choices. Dont like selling on Ebay then sell on COMC, sell here, sell on SCF. Or fix the shipping price into your card and offer free shipping. Problem solved. Complaining about a problem that has solutions but you choose not to do anything other then complain is beyond utterly pointless.

[FuriousD82]

I still don't get people. As a mid volume seller, whenever someone asks me about getting a deal on shipping or that I charge too much ($2.25 flat to US, $4.50 to Canada, $5.50 international and .55 cents), I usually brace for the hit on the DSR. IF you dont like the terms, don't bid. I don't get why it is so difficult.

[cking]

Originally Posted by FuriousD82

I still don't get people. As a mid volume seller, whenever someone asks me about getting a deal on shipping or that I charge too much ($2.25 flat to US, $4.50 to Canada, $5.50 international and .55 cents), I usually brace for the hit on the DSR. IF you dont like the terms, don't bid. I don't get why it is so difficult.

Again, Ebays sytem is set up so buyers can rate your shipping price.You know this is advance yet you still sell on Ebay. If you dont like it dont sell on Ebay. Why is that so difficult for you to understand.