Haiku Suspended- Rumors of massive scam emerge..

[Hugemojo]

So this is an outsider's perspective on this whole thing (and from a lawyer who has seen scams in the past). I have never had any contact with Haiku or the others involved and have really only learned about this situation from this thread.

Haiku is not brilliant. It's makes us feel better to think we got taken by a great con artist, but he'll very likely be caught. The few members who are facing suspicion of being connected to Haiku continue to respond to comments here. Given the tone of their responses, it sounds to me that they also got taken by him - as a result of their greed - but also know they are responsible for leading everyone on about Haiku's character. I don't think they thought they were part of an epic scam. Rather, they probably knew they weren't doing the right thing with respect to various comments and fake transactions with Haiku but were trying desperately to get into his good graces. They're in a tough position because they are both victims and victimizers. I think of Ponzi schemes, where people get their friends wrapped up in the scam with false promises of riches but also actually believing their friends will benefit in the long term. At the end of the day, everyone gets screwed except the guy on the very top. It's easiest to direct our anger at the ones who are still here, but the fact that they continue responding tells me that they are also victims (albeit ones trying to justify their naive and inappropriate behavior).

The right thing to do, which I doubt will happen, is to allow those who lost out on trades with Haiku to purchase back the (stolen) cards at the discount prices paid by the new owners. PayPal WILL take care of those who paid (by regular payment) without receiving cards. In scams of this size, PayPal won't take an individualized approach to each transaction - they'll look at the big picture and likely refund everyone who claims they didn't receive an item (even if Haiku provides tracking numbers for some). The biggest lesson that should be learned once this is done is that purchasing cards is very safe if done properly. Trading cards is dangerous, plain and simple.

[Sikkcaden]

I don't know if anyone's mentioned this, but Haiku offered to match any donations TheChoice22 receives. The fact he won't be doing that is sickening.

[pierrethomasfan]

Originally Posted by Hugemojo

So this is an outsider's perspective on this whole thing (and from a lawyer who has seen scams in the past). I have never had any contact with Haiku or the others involved and have really only learned about this situation from this thread.

Haiku is not brilliant. It's makes us feel better to think we got taken by a great con artist, but he'll very likely be caught. The few members who are facing suspicion of being connected to Haiku continue to respond to comments here. Given the tone of their responses, it sounds to me that they also got taken by him - as a result of their greed - but also know they are responsible for leading everyone on about Haiku's character. I don't think they thought they were part of an epic scam. Rather, they probably knew they weren't doing the right thing with respect to various comments and fake transactions with Haiku but were trying desperately to get into his good graces. They're in a tough position because they are both victims and victimizers. I think of Ponzi schemes, where people get their friends wrapped up in the scam with false promises of riches but also actually believing their friends will benefit in the long term. At the end of the day, everyone gets screwed except the guy on the very top. It's easiest to direct our anger at the ones who are still here, but the fact that they continue responding tells me that they are also victims (albeit ones trying to justify their naive and inappropriate behavior).

The right thing to do, which I doubt will happen, is to allow those who lost out on trades with Haiku to purchase back the (stolen) cards at the discount prices paid by the new owners. PayPal WILL take care of those who paid (by regular payment) without receiving cards. In scams of this size, PayPal won't take an individualized approach to each transaction - they'll look at the big picture and likely refund everyone who claims they didn't receive an item (even if Haiku provides tracking numbers for some). The biggest lesson that should be learned once this is done is that purchasing cards is very safe if done properly. Trading cards is dangerous, plain and simple.

Fraser should get the stolen cards back if the case, Allstar may very well be a scam so take that for what it's worth

[slappybag]

Originally Posted by Vegas

If the Mods had any BRAINS they would shut down all the Haiku posts. Let the people who were stupid enough to send him money without knowing wtf they were getting, Pay Pal and the authorities handle it. To many Magnum P.I.'s here who don't know crap and spreading rumors and accusing other members. Like I said before the Mods are incompetent, they are fast to ban or suspend a member for cursing ect.., but they let this mystery lots BS go on for so long in plain sight.

Makes sense to me...blowout forums needs to shut down and reboot at a TBD date...gotten wayyy out of hand around here.

[calculusdork]

Originally Posted by Vegas

If the Mods had any BRAINS they would shut down all the Haiku posts. Let the people who were stupid enough to send him money without knowing wtf they were getting, Pay Pal and the authorities handle it. To many Magnum P.I.'s here who don't know crap and spreading rumors and accusing other members. Like I said before the Mods are incompetent, they are fast to ban or suspend a member for cursing ect.., but they let this mystery lots BS go on for so long in plain sight.

I know I'm going to catch a little flak for this, but whatever ...

It is my understanding that the mods on this site are completely unpaid. And what is the annual revenue of Blowout Cards?

Blowout maintains these message boards for one reason and one reason only -- attention and revenue to the company. You would think that the moderators over these boards, being that they are providing a value-added service to a portion of the company that tangibly increases revenue, would be compensated in some manner.

If I am wrong, and the mods here are paid ... then fire away. But it is my understanding that they are unpaid ... and if I were in their situation, I would have handed in my resignation 48 hours ago.

[DanShakespeare]

So the car forum with the guys name and the guy on eBay that sells HIGHEND fashion shyt with the same name, who are they to this?

[calculusdork]

Originally Posted by Hugemojo

The few members who are facing suspicion of being connected to Haiku continue to respond to comments here. Given the tone of their responses, it sounds to me that they also got taken by him - as a result of their greed - but also know they are responsible for leading everyone on about Haiku's character. I don't think they thought they were part of an epic scam. Rather, they probably knew they weren't doing the right thing with respect to various comments and fake transactions with Haiku but were trying desperately to get into his good graces. They're in a tough position because they are both victims and victimizers. I think of Ponzi schemes, where people get their friends wrapped up in the scam with false promises of riches but also actually believing their friends will benefit in the long term. At the end of the day, everyone gets screwed except the guy on the very top. It's easiest to direct our anger at the ones who are still here, but the fact that they continue responding tells me that they are also victims (albeit ones trying to justify their naive and inappropriate behavior).

The part that I'm struggling with -- some of these people that were "taken" and continue to post here, asking for help getting their cards back, etc. -- someone here probably knows exactly who Haiku is and where he is right now. And they aren't talking.

Good perspective though, I believe you are probably right.

[ManInTheMirror]

Originally Posted by DanShakespeare

So the car forum with the guys name and the guy on eBay that sells HIGHEND fashion shyt with the same name, who are they to this?

Nothing at all.

[nickha2]

To show the significance of sakem92 eBay post with all those cards I believe those were all the cards haiku sold in his last legit sale where people actually received them

[pierrethomasfan]

Originally Posted by calculusdork

I know I'm going to catch a little flak for this, but whatever ...

It is my understanding that the mods on this site are completely unpaid. And what is the annual revenue of Blowout Cards?

Blowout maintains these message boards for one reason and one reason only -- attention and revenue to the company. You would think that the moderators over these boards, being that they are providing a value-added service to a portion of the company that tangibly increases revenue, would be compensated in some manner.

If I am wrong, and the mods here are paid ... then fire away. But it is my understanding that they are unpaid ... and if I were in their situation, I would have handed in my resignation 48 hours ago.

You'll on catch sh@t because I'm a customer of yours

[bigzig]

Originally Posted by pierrethomasfan

Fraser should get the stolen cards back if the case, Allstar may very well be a scam so take that for what it's worth

Both could be scammers. Both could be legit. Maybe one or the other. Who knows. Way to much false info and assumptions getting tossed around right now. We may never know the real truth.

[nickha2]

The only useful info from last night is that pdawson has a old USPS signature from summer showing a residential address proving he lived there or one of his buddies did

[cjdelaney3]

Originally Posted by nickha2

The only useful info from last night is that pdawson has a old USPS signature from summer showing a residential address proving he lived there or one of his buddies did

I would say the pictures of him were significant. Two people have now said "That's Jay Morgan aka Haiku" when shown the pics. Two people that have met the guy and/or knew him.

[pierrethomasfan]

Originally Posted by bigzig

Both could be scammers. Both could be legit. Maybe one or the other. Who knows. Way to much false info and assumptions getting tossed around right now. We may never know the real truth.

I know Fraser is legit you always see him post. Allstar I didn't know existed til he said all the card were his. Hmmm

[monkeymcgee]

If you have real evidence, send it to a mod.

Let's stop with the speculation.

[ManInTheMirror]

Originally Posted by monkeymcgee

If you have real evidence, send it to a mod. Let's stop with the speculation.

Exactly- we should just wait for the mods at this point. I promise it will be good.

[Divino]

Originally Posted by pierrethomasfan

I know Fraser is legit you always see him post. Allstar I didn't know existed til he said all the card were his. Hmmm

Originally Posted by monkeymcgee

If you have real evidence, send it to a mod.

Let's stop with the speculation.

I agree, this speculation has got to stop. PTF obviously has a hidden agenda here since he wants to keep the card and not have to pay him for it. Just stop....

[wfrazier]

Originally Posted by Divino

I agree, this speculation has got to stop. PTF obviously has a hidden agenda here since he wants to keep the card and not have to pay him for it. Just stop....

Please don't quote people saying Stop, if you're gonna say someone has a hidden agenda... Really? I would help Fraser also and not All-Star....

[Divino]

Originally Posted by wfrazier

Please don't quote people saying Stop, if you're gonna say someone has a hidden agenda... Really? I would help Fraser also and not All-Star....

k buddy Keep these cliques and friendships alive....it got us so far already

[wfrazier]

That's not the pot calling the kettle black???? Stop accusations, but I'm accusing someone of havin a hidden agenda?
I have no clique/ u can check my address/ my bank account is registered/ i have the same ebay name/ this is my real name
Grow up

[bigzig]

OMG my head hurts.

[Divino]

Originally Posted by wfrazier

That's not the pot calling the kettle black???? Stop accusations, but I'm accusing someone of havin a hidden agenda?
I have no clique/ u can check my address/ my bank account is registered/ i have the same ebay name/ this is my real name

I think you completely misinterpreted....but whatever.

[wfrazier]

Originally Posted by Divino

I think you completely misinterpreted....but whatever.

How is you saying someone has a hidden agenda misinterpreted after saying speculation must stop?

[Divino]

Originally Posted by wfrazier

How is you saying someone has a hidden agenda misinterpreted after saying speculation must stop?

I'm not speculating anything about the scam. It's obvious based on PTF's post that he really wants to believe allstar is a scammer so he can keep his card, so he continues to feed the speculation that he is. I don't care for PTF, and I see right through his childish immature antics.

[wfrazier]

I'll say it one last time... I believe all-star is involved too especially after the mystery guest bayzhead showed up in these threads... There's no way in hell I would give all-star money or cards. That's why a couple people on here have been so adamant about posting "funny" things about him, and not giving him what he claims to be his = we aren't believers man and don't want anyone else played.