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Old 03-29-2013, 10:39 PM   #201 (permalink)
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Forums such as these are built on trust and integrity. If you lack either you should be OUTTA HERE.. Members who whore out their reputation for a few extra bucks are ones I prefer do not do business here.
Yea you don't wanna do business with which is fine. But if we started banning members for shipping late and being morally wrong, this site would be a ghost town. Ban people for scamming, ban people who go too far with insults, but you can't ban everyone. That's why you just leave the proper trader rating and then judge for yourself who you deal or don't deal with.
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Old 03-29-2013, 10:44 PM   #202 (permalink)
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Yea you don't wanna do business with which is fine. But if we started banning members for shipping late and being morally wrong, this site would be a ghost town. Ban people for scamming, ban people who go too far with insults, but you can't ban everyone. That's why you just leave the proper trader rating and then judge for yourself who you deal or don't deal with.
How is it not a scam when you agree to a $1200 then extort another $200 afterward? Thats a scam in my opinion. I wouldnt hire a contractor at my home who would quote me a price and then do 50% of the job and demand more or else.

You defend slow shipping because you have been habitually named a slow shipper so I understand your concern and painting a pretty picture for slow shippers. If the forum took a tougher stance these things would be less likely to happen. You state it would be a ghost town but I bet for every member banned 2-3 have left because of the terrible service they receive on this site from certain members.
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Old 03-29-2013, 10:56 PM   #203 (permalink)
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Old 03-29-2013, 10:57 PM   #204 (permalink)
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How is it not a scam when you agree to a $1200 then extort another $200 afterward? Thats a scam in my opinion. I wouldnt hire a contractor at my home who would quote me a price and then do 50% of the job and demandmore or else.

You defend slow shipping because you have been habitually named a slow shipper so I understand your concern and painting a pretty picture for slow shippers. If the forum took a tougher stance these things would be less likely to happen. You state it would be a ghost town but I bet for every member banned 2-3 have left because of the terrible service they receive on this site from certain members.
Typical cheap shot. Forgot you were perfect Mr Racist. And you would be banned too btw. See two members who don't scam banned. I agree what WillC did was wrong but it's morally wrong. I don't know if he exorted or not. But he didn't scam anyone persay. I wouldn't have done it obviously.

Go to SCF, they ban everyone. Youd like it since it is for perfect people. This site has way more people then anywhere else.
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Old 03-29-2013, 10:58 PM   #205 (permalink)
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Aside from the fact that the item was not in WillC's possession at the time,
Using the blowout forum to "auction" a card is against the rules.
I am pretty sure both of the following are against the rules for most if not all card forums.

No Auction type threads - This includes threads that ask for the best card for a certain amount of money (ie. I want the best card/lot for $$XX threads). If you've got some money and are looking for something specific, make sure your title and description reflect exactly what you want.

Items for sale or trade must be in your possession. Selling items that are incoming or not in your possession is NOT allowed.


General Rules and Guidelines for Buy/Sell/Trade - PLEASE READ BEFORE POSTING IN B/S/T
Again, if he did it in my example way up there... it's not auction type
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Old 03-29-2013, 11:21 PM   #206 (permalink)
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People on this board love piling on/dragging things out. Will accepted full responsibility and apologized. He's shown he's a valued member so now that this has been brought to everyone's attention, he's owned it I feel like we can move on.


But probably not.
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Old 03-29-2013, 11:39 PM   #207 (permalink)
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This reminds me of the Penny fiasco
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Old 03-29-2013, 11:48 PM   #208 (permalink)
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People on this board love piling on/dragging things out. Will accepted full responsibility and apologized. He's shown he's a valued member so now that this has been brought to everyone's attention, he's owned it I feel like we can move on.


But probably not.
So if someone scams someone and then apologizes we should be okay with it? He purposely tried to squeeze a fellow member for more cash which is dirty after making the deal. Then to sell it to someone else makes it worse. I know I know, we should give everyone a 2nd chance cuz hes a good guy. Haiku was a good guy too!

You just want to forgive and forget because he is a buddy of yours

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Old 03-29-2013, 11:54 PM   #209 (permalink)
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So if someone scams someone and then apologizes we should be okay with it?

You just want to forgive and forget because he is a buddy of yours
Again. Where is the scam? A scam is stealing. Who stole something? And you wanna call him a scammer because you don't like him.
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Old 03-30-2013, 12:04 AM   #210 (permalink)
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Again. Where is the scam? A scam is stealing. Who stole something? And you wanna call him a scammer because you don't like him.
And you want to forgive him for pulling a deceptive sham to squeeze money out of another collector, the RENEG on a deal and sell it to someone else.

No matter how you look at it, its a douche move. If you wish to forgive people who pull stunts like this, by all means go ahead. I dont have time to waste with people who go back on their word especially when it comes to financial transactions.

If I used the word Swindler, would that put a smile on your face?

He broke enough rules on this forum. Selling a card before its in hand. Then renegging on a deal. You have no issues calling others out for renegging on deals made, but when its your friend you think its ok.
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Old 03-30-2013, 12:14 AM   #211 (permalink)
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Typical cheap shot. Forgot you were perfect Mr Racist. And you would be banned too btw. See two members who don't scam banned. I agree what WillC did was wrong but it's morally wrong. I don't know if he exorted or not. But he didn't scam anyone persay. I wouldn't have done it obviously.

Go to SCF, they ban everyone. Youd like it since it is for perfect people. This site has way more people then anywhere else.
This stuff has no place here.

Now lets get on topic.. Just because WillC apologies it simply is not ok. It is indeed a SCAM when he wont sell for the original price and then manipulates a couple of buyers into running the price up. He is a cheat and a scammer nothing less.

Definition of Scam: Noun
A dishonest scheme; a fraud


How is it not dishonest to agree to a price and then backout only to demand hundreds more and get it from the same guy? Sounds like multiple stories around this card and the scheme got him more money AFTER he backed out of his original deal.
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Old 03-30-2013, 12:14 AM   #212 (permalink)
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And you want to forgive him for pulling a deceptive sham to squeeze money out of another collector, the RENEG on a deal and sell it to someone else.

No matter how you look at it, its a douche move. If you wish to forgive people who pull stunts like this, by all means go ahead. I dont have time to waste with people who go back on their word especially when it comes to financial transactions.

If I used the word Swindler, would that put a smile on your face?

He broke enough rules on this forum. Selling a card before its in hand. Then renegging on a deal. You have no issues calling others out for renegging on deals made, but when its your friend you think its ok.
My friend? Do you read threads or make stuff up? I said countless times what he did was wrong. Obviously. But IMO it's a matter of morals moreso than a scam. I'm not defending him, I'm just saying a scam is stealing basically. He showed lack of care with this deal.
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Old 03-30-2013, 12:17 AM   #213 (permalink)
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This stuff has no place here.

Now lets get on topic.. Just because WillC apologies it simply is not ok. It is indeed a SCAM when he wont sell for the original price and then manipulates a couple of buyers into running the price up. He is a cheat and a scammer nothing less.

Definition of Scam: Noun
A dishonest scheme; a fraud


How is it not dishonest to agree to a price and then backout only to demand hundreds more and get it from the same guy? Sounds like multiple stories around this card and the scheme got him more money AFTER he backed out of his original deal.
You made an unessacary comment, cheap shot for no reason. Then when I do you compain?

It all depends on your defintion. IMO it's more a moral issue than a scam. I see your point but IMO a scam is theft.
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Old 03-30-2013, 12:18 AM   #214 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Orangejello727 View Post
And you want to forgive him for pulling a deceptive sham to squeeze money out of another collector, the RENEG on a deal and sell it to someone else.

No matter how you look at it, its a douche move. If you wish to forgive people who pull stunts like this, by all means go ahead. I dont have time to waste with people who go back on their word especially when it comes to financial transactions.

If I used the word Swindler, would that put a smile on your face?

He broke enough rules on this forum. Selling a card before its in hand. Then renegging on a deal. You have no issues calling others out for renegging on deals made, but when its your friend you think its ok.
Yet another example of why the guy should be GONE. How many rules can the guy break and again lets not forget his support of a guy who created multiple user names to cover up his issues. He supports scammers and apparently is one.
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Old 03-30-2013, 12:20 AM   #215 (permalink)
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You made an unessacary comment, cheap shot for no reason. Then when I do you compain?

It all depends on your defintion. IMO it's more a moral issue than a scam. I see your point but IMO a scam is theft.
Websters is where I got the definition. Going by the book its a scam. It is also a moral issue. If we want to get into opinions I will say it is my opinion that he STOLE more money for the card by being a punk and backing out of his deal.
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Old 03-30-2013, 12:24 AM   #216 (permalink)
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Websters is where I got the definition. Going by the book its a scam. It is also a moral issue. If we want to get into opinions I will say it is my opinion that he STOLE more money for the card by being a punk and backing out of his deal.
I'll just agree with you that its wrong to do.
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Old 03-30-2013, 12:30 AM   #217 (permalink)
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My friend? Do you read threads or make stuff up? I said countless times what he did was wrong. Obviously. But IMO it's a matter of morals moreso than a scam. I'm not defending him, I'm just saying a scam is stealing basically. He showed lack of care with this deal.
When other people pull these stunts they are punished. Why would this be any different?

Just answer my questions.

1. Did he sell the card to a person then re neg and sell it to someone else there after? Yes or no? Is that not against the TOS?

2. Did he sell the card prior to having it in hand? Yes or no? Is that not against TOS?

3. When others have pulled stunts like this ive seen people asking for justice. Why should this be any different? because he admitted to it? if thats the case, should I get a "get out of jail free" card if I admit to pulling a douche stunt? Yes or no? When you deal with $$$, its straight up and strict. THere is no reason to play games with clear cut transactions. if you sell a card, its sold, You cannot just re sell it after you agreed to terms with another buyer. Doing so, is unethical. I do not wish to deal with Unethical people
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Old 03-30-2013, 12:41 AM   #218 (permalink)
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It sounds like it was more like this though? Sounds like a bidding war unless I missed something.
No it was not like you describe and yes you missed quite a bit

You can read the whole thread from the beginning or
you can read this

http://www.blowoutcards.com/forums/4576258-post144.html
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Old 03-30-2013, 12:44 AM   #219 (permalink)
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Well technically is it a legal binding contract? Like no paperwork was signed. Is this something that can be used in court? I agree it's wrong just is it a real contract?

And about that deal, he didn't scam anyone, he got destroyed on this site. Still does, but what are the mods gonna do, ban him for a morally wrong thing but not a scam?
If they banned members like this the first time they did things like this then future problems are minimized.
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Print this thread off, take it outside, read it to another human being, and look at their reaction. This is the internet, and those are pieces of cardboard. A little perspective needs to be had sometimes.
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It leaves people upset and angry because sellers like yourself have no integrity. Would anyone be upset and/or angry had you completed the original deal? I doubt it. To think Mods listen to members like yourself and allow tools who make multiple user names on here is scary. Thats another story I guess. Its no wonder you stuck up for someone lacking integrity.
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Forums such as these are built on trust and integrity. If you lack either you should be OUTTA HERE.. Members who whore out their reputation for a few extra bucks are ones I prefer do not do business here.
All you have on here is your word. Once you lost that the going will get rough on here.
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That member was banned.
I know that account says banned but why would that guy just say a few days ago that the mods were ok with his new account and in fact told him it was ok to make the second account.................and then a few days later ban the account?Something smells rotten
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Old 03-30-2013, 12:45 AM   #220 (permalink)
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When other people pull these stunts they are punished. Why would this be any different?

On here? No, I haven't seen anyone banned for it.

Just answer my questions.

1. Did he sell the card to a person then re neg and sell it to someone else there after? Yes or no? Is that not against the TOS?

Yep, not debatable

2. Did he sell the card prior to having it in hand? Yes or no? Is that not against TOS?

Seems so, not debatable

3. When others have pulled stunts like this ive seen people asking for justice. Why should this be any different? because he admitted to it? if thats the case, should I get a "get out of jail free" card if I admit to pulling a douche stunt? Yes or no? When you deal with $$$, its straight up and strict. THere is no reason to play games with clear cut transactions. if you sell a card, its sold, You cannot just re sell it after you agreed to terms with another buyer. Doing so, is unethical. I do not wish to deal with Unethical people

I only remember one similar situatuon to this that got this much attention. The guy owned up to it, got destroyed, and regrets it still, but he is still here.
Answered in the quote.

Now answer me this.

1. Did he steal money and/or cards?

No, and that's the difference, IMO the difference between a scammer and a morally wrong thing to do. It's not like he kept the OP's money, he refunded him. OBVIOUSLY it's wrong, no one is debataing that. But I feel it is unfair to call him a scammer, maybe a bad person, but IMO not a scammer. Scammers steal and leave. They hide. Hell, the fact he came out to apologize and admit fault shows a lot. Many WOULD HAVE hid.
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Old 03-30-2013, 12:49 AM   #221 (permalink)
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No it was not like you describe and yes you missed quite a bit

You can read the whole thread from the beginning or
you can read this

http://www.blowoutcards.com/forums/4576258-post144.html
I understand that, and I said they way he did it is wrong. You never answered my example, so here it is again, is this wrong to do? Because my point was IF he did it this way below. It's not wrong. He did it totally dumb. By saying I'll do this AND THEN trying to get more elsewhere

Let's do an example. You have a card for sale right, someone offers you $500. Someone else offers you $600. You like the $600 price obviously, do you just take it? if it was me, I tell the $500 guy, hey someone offered $600 LMK if you still want it.

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If they banned members like this the first time they did things like this then future problems are minimized.
Honestly, I think you want slow shippers banned haha.
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Old 03-30-2013, 12:53 AM   #222 (permalink)
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If OP really did feel sorry about this he would have sold the card to forgiven for the original agreed upon price of $1200. The fact that OP ended up selling the card back to him for $1400 DOES NOT make things right.

I get this image of him apologizing to your face as he puts his hand in your back pocket and steals $200 all while smiling to your face. He's probably laughing right now while looking at his account. In fact, I don't really think anybody made an offer of $1000 to begin with but that is just an assumption of mine and I have no proof but OP just sounds shady. It is a FACT that he extorted/stole $200 from forgiven
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Old 03-30-2013, 12:54 AM   #223 (permalink)
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If OP really did feel sorry about this he would have sold the card to forgiven for the original agreed upon price of $1200. The fact that OP ended up selling the card back to him for $1400 DOES NOT make things right.

I get this image of him apologizing to your face as he puts his hand in your back pocket and steals $200 all while smiling to your face. He's probably laughing right now while looking at his account. In fact, I don't really think anybody made an offer of $1000 to begin with but that is just an assumption of mine and I have no proof but OP just sounds shady. In is a FACT that he extorted/stole $200 from forgiven
I agree with this, he should sell it for the original 1200, then it would be all square.
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Old 03-30-2013, 12:57 AM   #224 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by nuccionino View Post
Answered in the quote.

Now answer me this.

1. Did he steal money and/or cards?

No, and that's the difference, IMO the difference between a scammer and a morally wrong thing to do. It's not like he kept the OP's money, he refunded him. OBVIOUSLY it's wrong, no one is debataing that. But I feel it is unfair to call him a scammer, maybe a bad person, but IMO not a scammer. Scammers steal and leave. They hide. Hell, the fact he came out to apologize and admit fault shows a lot. Many WOULD HAVE hid.
You really need to review the thread. he never had the OP's money.
He SOLICITED offers from various people via pm
He did not have an ASK price (this is why it IS an auction imo)

Told the OP they had a deal
but NO never mind got a better offer.
can you do better ?
OK sold to you again!

Then made a deal with JP anyway.

did he steal? no

did he scam? maybe. Do you consider shilling a scam ?
Other offers (prior to JP) could be outright lies and therefore seen as shilling.
No way for me to know for certain one way or another.
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Old 03-30-2013, 01:02 AM   #225 (permalink)
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The fact that people are saying Will apoligized and has moved on is ridiculous. This was a straight up scumbag move. This is why scammers love this place. I cannot begin to tell you how many threads I see about scammers where people will take the time to post about honest members commenting about the scamming but wont say anything at all about the actual scamming. Azz backwards. This forum does not need people like this on it.They put everyone at risk. All I have ever asked for on here is for people to be held accountable for thier actions. If that makes me a bad person in some peoples eyes,then so be it. I can live with that.
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