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Old 09-14-2013, 12:05 PM   #76 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by JOHNJOHNNY View Post
he took it to a professional machine shop and cut it to the proper specifications.

How does Beckett know if a card was cut on a fleer machine or another professional cutting machine.

Fleer didn't have special prototype cutting machines that no one else had.
I thought the OP was being transparent with Beckett since he says it doesn't matter where the card came from, pack or sheet? Or did he not say that to them?
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Old 09-14-2013, 12:08 PM   #77 (permalink)
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I thought the OP was being transparent with Beckett since he says it doesn't matter where the card came from, pack or sheet? Or did he not say that to them?
as far as I am aware, he just got the card cut professionally, then sent it in to beckett.

That's why this is crazy, who knows how many cut cards are out there. if beckett can't tell, do you think the average collector can?
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Old 09-14-2013, 12:13 PM   #78 (permalink)
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What was that noise you just heard? The sound of the 90's insert market crapping out.
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Old 09-14-2013, 12:15 PM   #79 (permalink)
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Thanks for telling us this. Fun fact haiku had stellar feedback and people said the same about them before he ripped off half the place. Nothing more.
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Old 09-14-2013, 12:21 PM   #80 (permalink)
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What was that noise you just heard? The sound of the 90's insert market crapping out.
this will have zero effect on the market, in 2 days this will all be forgotten, we will be onto getting pissed at something else. and when the next one comes up everyone will still bid because there is no way to tell a fleer cut from a professional cut card.
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Old 09-14-2013, 12:22 PM   #81 (permalink)
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this will have zero effect on the market, in 2 days this will all be forgotten,
This is 100% false.
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Old 09-14-2013, 12:50 PM   #82 (permalink)
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With 2 Jordan Jambalayas on ebay currently, it's clear the market has been flooded!
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Old 09-14-2013, 12:54 PM   #83 (permalink)
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So basically what I have garnered from this thread is that Ken has too much money invested in cutting up these cards and will now try and justify it however he can in order to maximise his profits. If this wasn't the case then I see no reason why he wouldn't freely state these cards are cut from a sheet in his auctions. There's only one reason why you don't state this, and it's because you know it will lessen their value, which should probably tell you something about what you are doing.
this basically is my feeling on this particular subject. (not sure if thats what he meant but came across that way)

Also if people think that having them cut yourself should or would not lesson value (if disclosed) you are really out of touch with the insert market. Also who really knows what that does to the circulation/population numbers

I guarantee if it was put in the auctions it would lower the price of the final sale.

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as far as I am aware, he just got the card cut professionally, then sent it in to beckett.

That's why this is crazy, who knows how many cut cards are out there. if beckett can't tell, do you think the average collector can?
exactly why it should be disclosed. So if a guy can make great 100 dollar bills and nobody can tell then all is well?
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Old 09-14-2013, 01:05 PM   #84 (permalink)
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this basically is my feeling on this particular subject. (not sure if thats what he meant but came across that way)

Also if people think that having them cut yourself should or would not lesson value (if disclosed) you are really out of touch with the insert market. Also who really knows what that does to the circulation/population numbers

I guarantee if it was put in the auctions it would lower the price of the final sale.



exactly why it should be disclosed. So if a guy can make great 100 dollar bills and nobody can tell then all is well?
just for argument's sake, you realize he didn't create the cards, right?

He cut them, but they were made by the same exact people who made the originals, at the same time the originals were made
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Old 09-14-2013, 01:08 PM   #85 (permalink)
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just for argument's sake, you realize he didn't create the cards, right?

He cut them, but they were made by the same exact people who made the originals, at the same time the originals were made
you answered your own question

"they" are not originals
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Old 09-14-2013, 01:09 PM   #86 (permalink)
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you answered your own question

"they" are not originals
Ok, poor choice of words on my part, but it's not like he's printing these in his basement.

You can't counterfeit 100 dollar bills that are 100% authentic.

That is my point.
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Old 09-14-2013, 01:13 PM   #87 (permalink)
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just for argument's sake, you realize he didn't create the cards, right?

He cut them, but they were made by the same exact people who made the originals, at the same time the originals were made
True. However, lets say the print run was 100 (I have no idea on the actual print run). By cutting sheets that were NEVER intended to be singles, you are now increasing the original print run.

So in my mind, it isn't even a discussion about WHO cut it, it's a discussion about introducing cards that were never intended to be part of the print run.
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Old 09-14-2013, 01:13 PM   #88 (permalink)
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just for argument's sake, you realize he didn't create the cards, right?

He cut them, but they were made by the same exact people who made the originals, at the same time the originals were made
you answered your own question

"they" are not originals



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Ok, poor choice of words on my part, but it's not like he's printing these in his basement.

You can't counterfeit 100 dollar bills that are 100% authentic.

That is my point.
Freudian slip?. These were not meant for circulation. If everything was on the up and up they would be mentioned as such and let the buyer decide. There is only one(or hundreds) reason not to mention
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Old 09-14-2013, 01:15 PM   #89 (permalink)
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True. However, lets say the print run was 100 (I have no idea on the actual print run). By cutting sheets that were NEVER intended to be singles, you are now increasing the original print run.

So in my mind, it isn't even a discussion about WHO cut it, it's a discussion about introducing cards that were never intended to be part of the print run.
Oh I completely agree.

I was just taking issue with Wheeler comparing it to counterfeiting, since these cards are absolutely not fake by any means. They were cut and made their way out of the back room so to speak, but they are 100% real.
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Old 09-14-2013, 01:15 PM   #90 (permalink)
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Freudian slip?. These were not meant for circulation. If everything was on the up and up they would be mentioned as such and let the buyer decide. There is only one(or hundreds) reason not to mention
still not counterfeit
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Old 09-14-2013, 01:17 PM   #91 (permalink)
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still not counterfeit
so thats it for you huh lol.. neither are the cards from the fleer bankruptcy not put into circulation. If you can differ from executive promos and kind then I cant debate for it is just burying your head in the sand attitude
Just answer why it would not be mentioned in a listing
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Old 09-14-2013, 01:19 PM   #92 (permalink)
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so thats it for you huh lol.. neither are the cards from the fleer bankruptcy not put into circulation.
Just answer why it would not be mentioned in a listing
I'm not saying he's ok to cut and sell these.

just saying call him out for what he's actually doing wrong, rather than making up accusations.
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Old 09-14-2013, 01:31 PM   #93 (permalink)
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what do you mean call him out for what hes doing? he bought uncut sheets, cut them himself or professionally and sent them to bgs got them graded. isnt stating that they are cu in auctions and acting as if they are pack pulled as far as i know. he didnt tell bgs and just got them graded from what i can get from the threads across the board.
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Old 09-14-2013, 01:41 PM   #94 (permalink)
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If a guy takes home a sheet of 100 dollar bills that was made at the treasury, and he cuts them himself instead of the machine at the treasurey, are the bills real or fake?

They were made at the treasury, meant to be either put into circulation at a later point or be a replacement for bad $100 bills. Are they not real bills anymore and not worth $100?

If you got one of those bills would you consider it fake? Would you say it has less value than any other $100 bill. Would you let the person that you are going to give the bill to --know that it wasn't cut at the treasury?
Are these $100 bills considered collectibles? If it was a rare $100 bill that collectors thought only a few existed then someone obtained an uncut sheet and cut them up and sent them into the marketplace, are they fakes? No. However the seller would be taking advantage of perceived scarcity to line his pockets while simultaneously harming the market for that $100 bill. Is he selling fakes? No, but he has screwed over everyone to selfishly make his pockets bigger. Screw everyone else, he got his money, who cares about the effects or aftermath.

Your whole notion of we don't know how many exist so it's okay to go ahead and put another into the marketplace is absurd. We also don't know how many uncut sheets he's got sitting at home to pop out for $1000 a piece until the market is completely destroyed. But by then he'd have already made his money, right?
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Old 09-14-2013, 01:47 PM   #95 (permalink)
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That was the most horrendous comparison i have ever heard, except for the guy who was trying to compare it to rape.

no i didn't bring up rape, can you read (it may have been in the original thread as this is an off shoot of that thread), another poster did. Lol

the card is not counterfeit?? They card was made by fleer to be packed out, they just never got around to cutting it or were going to cut it at a later date??

Ken didn't buy the stuff and magically make the card, it was made by fleer? He didn't buy blank sheets and then dye the card and print on it and manufacture the cards???

He took a card that was already made by the manufacturer and cut it at a different location than the company would use.

I never stated i agreed with him, all i did was call your moronic comparison, silly. You brought up faking patches and fake autos.

Just because you can't understand my comparison, it's not a reason to justify ken re-making these cards from a sheet, putting a title up that doesn't state these were not from a pack, and asking for $2600 from other BO members... yea he's doing a great thing for the hobby JOHN... WAIT, HES RE-NUMBERING THEM TOO!!!!

I would never duplicate jersey/autos/any card for that matter, I was bringing up a situation that is possible to fake other high-end cards, and I could justify it because I would buy game-worn jerseys, and have a professional cut the cards out from an UD sheet making it an exact replication and add a serial number if necessary.... This guy has a Jordan PMG #d45/50 that came from a un-cut sheet!!! Yet he's doing nothing wrong....

People are buying these cards and are not being warned, that is BS no matter where the card came from...
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Old 09-14-2013, 01:55 PM   #96 (permalink)
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he took it to a professional machine shop and cut it to the proper specifications.

How does Beckett know if a card was cut on a fleer machine or another professional cutting machine.

Fleer didn't have special prototype cutting machines that no one else had.
Wow... so any card graded by Beckett is legit? I wonder how many fake Jordan RC's are out there graded by Beckett.... Now we have 'rare' Jordan inserts and BGS cards tanking in the same thread.... How can you defend Ken johnny bananas? How is he helping the Jordan Insert market?
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Old 09-14-2013, 09:38 PM   #97 (permalink)
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this is 100% false.
you wanna bet, that this will have no effect on the market

lets say if the next jamabalya sells for 30% less than average then you win, if it doesn't then i win

you wanna put some cards on it?
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Old 09-14-2013, 09:41 PM   #98 (permalink)
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wow... So any card graded by beckett is legit? I wonder how many fake jordan rc's are out there graded by beckett.... Now we have 'rare' jordan inserts and bgs cards tanking in the same thread.... How can you defend ken johnny bananas? How is he helping the jordan insert market?
apparently you still can't read, maybe you should spend some time on that instead of on here.

I never once defended ken, all i said was that this is blown out of proportion and that with cards from that era and from the feer bankruputcy, we all have to wonder about sheet cut cards.

And if beckett can't tell a sheet cut card from a factory cut card, what makes you think the average colelctor can?

See this is why it is so hard to discuss anything on here, you have people make false comparisons and put words into other peoples mouth.
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Old 09-14-2013, 09:45 PM   #99 (permalink)
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just because you can't understand my comparison, it's not a reason to justify ken re-making these cards from a sheet, putting a title up that doesn't state these were not from a pack, and asking for $2600 from other bo members... Yea he's doing a great thing for the hobby john... Wait, hes re-numbering them too!!!!

I would never duplicate jersey/autos/any card for that matter, i was bringing up a situation that is possible to fake other high-end cards, and i could justify it because i would buy game-worn jerseys, and have a professional cut the cards out from an ud sheet making it an exact replication and add a serial number if necessary.... This guy has a jordan pmg #d45/50 that came from a un-cut sheet!!! Yet he's doing nothing wrong....People are buying these cards and are not being warned, that is bs no matter where the card came from...
the entire highlighted part of your post is FOS.

no, we all understood your comparison, it just sucked and was way off the mark. You were talking about buying fake jerseys and putting them in cards and making special numbers for them.

That is way off from a legit fatory produced card being cut on a different machine.

Jesus christ, he is not renumbering anything if the card came from the factory already numbered. He admitted to having the card cut, not adding numbers to cards that were not already there.

You are either trolling or slow at this point, hell probably both.
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Old 09-15-2013, 01:36 AM   #100 (permalink)
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you wanna bet, that this will have no effect on the market

lets say if the next jamabalya sells for 30% less than average then you win, if it doesn't then i win

you wanna put some cards on it?
How do you know how many he has bought and sold already? After finding out about this the last few days I (along with others) have already crossed the Jamabalya off our bucket lists, so yes it has had an effect on the market. Please stop bringing ignorant posts into the discussion, thank you
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