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Old 04-13-2010, 02:39 PM   #26 (permalink)
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I'm not saying online doesnt have a place, but everyone bags on LCS owers due to price differences, with a more level playing field they can all make money and still be competitive, but instead of it being such a wide gap, just narrow it a bit so the shop owners dont get the bad rep. Three things make a difference between B&M and online, overhead, taxes and overall experience, you can never compete when your paying for a space/bills plus any employees, when others have 1/4 of your cost to operate PLUS they can bulk buy.
I agree with you about a more level playing field where there are several hobby stores competing with each other. I just think the stores in towns with 1 store for 200 miles will continue to have high, if not higher prices. The owners will figure, "Hey, I'm the only store within a 500 mile radius that you can buy this stuff!" I don't see this effecting the market in a big enough way to cause new store openings all over the country.
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Old 04-13-2010, 02:46 PM   #27 (permalink)
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I agree with you about a more level playing field where there are several hobby stores competing with each other. I just think the stores in towns with 1 store for 200 miles will continue to have high, if not higher prices. The owners will figure, "Hey, I'm the only store within a 500 mile radius that you can buy this stuff!" I don't see this effecting the market in a big enough way to cause new store openings all over the country.
And thats where the net comes in handy, it gives the buyer a place to go, to avoid those who are jacked up. But realize, the reason they are a bit steep isn't 100% because of the "im the only one around" its because they have costs to account for, and the prices they buy boxes/cases for isnt even close to what online suppliers buy for its like me telling you that you must do your job without a computer, paper and pencil only for X ammount of dollars, and then I'm gonna pay another guy 2x as much but he gets a computer/secretary and a printer/copier.
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Old 04-13-2010, 02:55 PM   #28 (permalink)
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Upper Deck fanboys are getting uppity!
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Old 04-13-2010, 03:02 PM   #29 (permalink)
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And thats where the net comes in handy, it gives the buyer a place to go, to avoid those who are jacked up. But realize, the reason they are a bit steep isn't 100% because of the "im the only one around" its because they have costs to account for, and the prices they buy boxes/cases for isnt even close to what online suppliers buy for its like me telling you that you must do your job without a computer, paper and pencil only for X ammount of dollars, and then I'm gonna pay another guy 2x as much but he gets a computer/secretary and a printer/copier.
Yes, I completely understand the price difference because of overhead. I've thought about how fun it would be to run a small shop and quickly realize that it wouldn't be at all lucrative in my area unless you could do larger volumes at lower prices. Personally I always figured the hobby would go the other direction and start selling hobby at big box stores. After all, that seems to be the most profitable model in the current market with everything else you buy. I still think Paninni may be cutting their throats a little with this decision, and $10 says you'll still see their product online cheaper than most hobby shops.
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Old 04-13-2010, 03:35 PM   #30 (permalink)
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Not I. I don't break any wax. I leave my gambling for the blackjack table

I let others break the wax then get desperate to at least break even after
I'm a collector so I don't have to rush and sell my best pulls on ebay to break even. I'll leave the gambling to you.
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Old 04-13-2010, 04:38 PM   #31 (permalink)
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Maybe I am wrong, but I don't see how this is good for the hobby. I like going to a hobby store, but did we forget they are about making money. Sounds to me like this means higher prices on boxes which means less trips to a store online or in person. Just sounds like a way to make the customer pay more money. How is this a good thing?
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Old 04-13-2010, 04:40 PM   #32 (permalink)
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anything that significantly increases price without adding content will backfire obviously
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Old 04-13-2010, 05:19 PM   #33 (permalink)
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Sounds like there will be a bunch of Panini product sitting on B&M shelves getting dusty. Yeah I'll pay $15 more a box to get a couple of one color jersey's.
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Old 04-13-2010, 05:27 PM   #34 (permalink)
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If Panini pulls that crap and UD goes under, then I guess it Topps only for me and maybe ITG.
Bravo!
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Old 04-13-2010, 07:05 PM   #35 (permalink)
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Bravo!

You know, I never bought anything from them before this years BTP and I must say, that was a great break. I wish they could do something like that in a regular NHL set.
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Old 04-13-2010, 09:45 PM   #36 (permalink)
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I've said this before. Going to a hobby shop is like going out to eat, I'll pay more for the ambiance and good conversation. But I don't go out to eat every night, I buy food cheaper at the grocery store, and cook it myself. The prices at the hobby stores are too expensive in my area, and if I could only buy cards at hobby store prices, I'd quit buying wax altogether and just buy singles, or nothing at all.
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Old 04-13-2010, 09:48 PM   #37 (permalink)
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The more I think of this the more I think Panini is trying to up their profits. Instead of selling cheap to wholesalers who make a profit and then dump to retailers. Panini will skip the wholesalers and ship straight to dealers. Of course, Panini wont charge them the direct price, theyll just charge them what they were paying before and pocket the extra.
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Old 04-13-2010, 10:10 PM   #38 (permalink)
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Well, if you remember not long ago UD tried this same exact concept. They placed those labels on the bottoms of boxes and could track all products. It turned into many dealers being STUCK WITH PRODUCT THAT WONT SELL! Fact is, if the product isnt worth what Panini says you can sell it for, you are stuck with CRAP on your shelf of they will blacklist you. Its like Panini saying spend your money upfront for the product, and if you dont sell it at OUR price we will punish you. Give me a break. This will absolutely never work. UD pissed off tons of people, and Panini will do the same.
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Old 04-13-2010, 10:28 PM   #39 (permalink)
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Well if certain wholesalers didn't manipulate the market like they have in the past and blatantly abused the trust of Panini we wouldn't have had to worry about this.
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Old 04-14-2010, 01:59 AM   #40 (permalink)
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I think online sales are necessary because they can reach out to thousands of people who don't live anywhere near a store, more volume=lower prices. I'm sure blowout will get around this by having 2 price lists, retail and wholesale. Paninni must think people are sooo addicted to sports cards that they will pay any price.
I agree online sales are absolutely necessary. I don't think the point is to get rid of online sales. The point is to stop people who are supposed to be distibuters from selling online to end customers at wholesale prices. There will still be online sales but if this plan works the way I think they mean for it to work the online prices are going to much more comparable to b&m prices.

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I love hanging out at the LCS, but they are the only ones benefiting from this initiative.
I really think that collectors are going to benefit from this alot more than everyone seems to think. Prices at the LCS are not going to go up, only prices of most online retailers will go up because they will no longer be able to call themselves distributers to get deeper discounts on boxes. This will severely decrease the number of rip-and-flippers because they won't be able to buy at wholesale prices anymore and will not be able to make a profit. That means less singles being sold because most people buying will be buying to find pc cards and to get trade bait. Less singles being sold will drive up the prices of singles, which will instantly make all the cards in your binders and boxes sitting on your shelves at home worth a lot more.
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Old 04-14-2010, 07:45 AM   #41 (permalink)
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I agree online sales are absolutely necessary. I don't think the point is to get rid of online sales. The point is to stop people who are supposed to be distibuters from selling online to end customers at wholesale prices. There will still be online sales but if this plan works the way I think they mean for it to work the online prices are going to much more comparable to b&m prices.



I really think that collectors are going to benefit from this alot more than everyone seems to think. Prices at the LCS are not going to go up, only prices of most online retailers will go up because they will no longer be able to call themselves distributers to get deeper discounts on boxes. This will severely decrease the number of rip-and-flippers because they won't be able to buy at wholesale prices anymore and will not be able to make a profit. That means less singles being sold because most people buying will be buying to find pc cards and to get trade bait. Less singles being sold will drive up the prices of singles, which will instantly make all the cards in your binders and boxes sitting on your shelves at home worth a lot more.
Prices going up means retailers will be selling less, means Panani sells less, especially in this economy. Selling less for both Panani and the retailers will not work. If they want to control how many singles are in the market they can simply limit production. In the end it is about providing an attractive product with reasonable value to the the end consumer. The ones flooding the market are the card manufacturers. The flow of product to the end customer is one of the smaller issues the hobby is dealing with.
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Old 04-14-2010, 08:24 AM   #42 (permalink)
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So its funny..you all complain that people wont pay the price if the wax goes up..but you are the same people that complained about Panini with bkb and still ended up buying it. Even when prices go up, you all will still buy. And if Panini does this right, they will stick a lowest price on it, kinda like Apple does with there stuff..and not allow blowout, DAC or any of them sell the wax below a certain price. Which is really what i hope they do...and if you are caught selling below that price then you are cut off. Less product, closer prices and hobby shops back in business makes this a better hobby.
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Old 04-14-2010, 09:30 AM   #43 (permalink)
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So its funny..you all complain that people wont pay the price if the wax goes up..but you are the same people that complained about Panini with bkb and still ended up buying it. Even when prices go up, you all will still buy.
Isn't that the truth!

It's sort of like all the complaining people do and have done regarding upper deck, yet most of those same people continued to support upper deck by buying their products. LOL
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Old 04-14-2010, 10:23 AM   #44 (permalink)
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And if Panini does this right, they will stick a lowest price on it, kinda like Apple does with there stuff..and not allow blowout, DAC or any of them sell the wax below a certain price. Which is really what i hope they do...and if you are caught selling below that price then you are cut off. Less product, closer prices and hobby shops back in business makes this a better hobby.
If Panini does a MAP, online retailers can easily get around it by using the "add to cart to see our price" trick that online retailers like Amazon have done with MAP products (including Apple) for years. It's a minimum advertised price, not minimum selling price.
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Old 04-14-2010, 11:33 AM   #45 (permalink)
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So basically the $95 box of cards I'm getting now with $40 worth of cards in it will turn in to a $120 box of cards with $40 worth of cards in it. Sounds great!
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Old 04-14-2010, 11:43 AM   #46 (permalink)
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This will severely decrease the number of rip-and-flippers because they won't be able to buy at wholesale prices anymore and will not be able to make a profit. That means less singles being sold because most people buying will be buying to find pc cards and to get trade bait. Less singles being sold will drive up the prices of singles, which will instantly make all the cards in your binders and boxes sitting on your shelves at home worth a lot more.

won't work - unless panini drastically increases content (and diversity) in their products and/or reduces production. but if they did that they wouldn't have a problem with B&Ms making a profit on their products in the first place.

otherwise they will be stuck with warehouses full of product nobody wants to pay retail for.
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Old 04-14-2010, 11:49 AM   #47 (permalink)
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So basically the $95 box of cards I'm getting now with $40 worth of cards in it will turn in to a $120 box of cards with $40 worth of cards in it. Sounds great!
Only if you are buying the 95 dollar box from an online distributor that's not supposed to be selling to you to begin with. If you are buying the box from an LCS for 95 it's not going to go up. That's what I keep trying to say the ONLY prices that are going to go up are the online wholesale prices that people weren't supposed to be able to get to begin with. And about teh 40 worth of cards. If nobody can buy bulk boxes at wholesale price to rip and flip the price of singles is going to go way up so you might find that a 95 dollar pack of cards actually has 95 dollars worth of cards in it.
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Old 04-14-2010, 12:15 PM   #48 (permalink)
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Only if you are buying the 95 dollar box from an online distributor that's not supposed to be selling to you to begin with. If you are buying the box from an LCS for 95 it's not going to go up. That's what I keep trying to say the ONLY prices that are going to go up are the online wholesale prices that people weren't supposed to be able to get to begin with. And about teh 40 worth of cards. If nobody can buy bulk boxes at wholesale price to rip and flip the price of singles is going to go way up so you might find that a 95 dollar pack of cards actually has 95 dollars worth of cards in it.
It really doesn't matter to me as long as BO doesn't have to raise up their prices.
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Old 04-14-2010, 01:40 PM   #49 (permalink)
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Only if you are buying the 95 dollar box from an online distributor that's not supposed to be selling to you to begin with. If you are buying the box from an LCS for 95 it's not going to go up. That's what I keep trying to say the ONLY prices that are going to go up are the online wholesale prices that people weren't supposed to be able to get to begin with. And about teh 40 worth of cards. If nobody can buy bulk boxes at wholesale price to rip and flip the price of singles is going to go way up so you might find that a 95 dollar pack of cards actually has 95 dollars worth of cards in it.


won't happen. buyers aren't going to pay more than they already are for crap panini singles. also beckett has an establisted card type-value structure that they aren't going to radically alter just because panini gets anal about wholesaling.
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Old 04-14-2010, 04:41 PM   #50 (permalink)
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won't happen. buyers aren't going to pay more than they already are for crap panini singles. also beckett has an establisted card type-value structure that they aren't going to radically alter just because panini gets anal about wholesaling.
Beckett's value has absolutely nothing to do with how much cards sell for. I am sure you are well aware. And Beckett's values are often 2-3x higher than what most people are willing to pay for a card. I am not saying the value of the cards are going to go up, I am saying the sell price of the cards will probably go up.
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