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Old 02-17-2009, 05:07 PM   #126 (permalink)
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These are not big big hits but not too shabby.
Could all could surprise and be semi-big.

82 Franklin Roosevelt / Winston Churchill
59 John Kennedy / Bobby Kennedy
55 John F. Kennedy / Jackie Onassis-Kennedy
56 Barack Obama / John McCain <<<< sleeper
57 John F. Kennedy / Marilyn Monroe
43 John Adams / John Quincy Adams<<<< HBO`Series special could make this a sleeper
Now ah days a Big HIT or small hit is getting your investment back and making a few extra bucks.

Peter
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Old 02-17-2009, 05:40 PM   #127 (permalink)
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Another thing to keep in mind is that cut sigs on trading cards are generally considered to be less attractive and therefore less valuable than signed documents.

One only has to look at the George Washington single to see why....the "G" from the George actually extends out of the card frame, making for a rather unattractive looking signature. If someone wanting a GW sig has a choice bewteen that card and a signed document, they'll choose the document every single time.

Likewise, the double sigs suffer from having the sigs on the opposite sides of the same card, meaning that both sigs cannot be seen at the same time.
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Old 02-17-2009, 05:56 PM   #128 (permalink)
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mfw13
Quoting just the last sentence **Likewise, the double sigs suffer from having the sigs on the opposite sides of the same card, meaning that both sigs cannot be seen at the same time.***
If you have that kind of money to bid and buy,you can have a revolving table with the card on a glass stand to see both sides as it turns.

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Old 02-17-2009, 07:05 PM   #129 (permalink)
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Just saw this one on ebay, however it is not on the checklist, and the seller is listing it as card number 49, which is harrison/harrison on the checklist which has already been pulled. This is what happens when good companies aspire to be upper deck.

Oval Office Razor AUTO CALVIN COOLIDGE & WARREN HARDING - eBay (item 220363283905 end time Feb-23-09 15:40:31 PST)
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Old 02-17-2009, 07:06 PM   #130 (permalink)
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Another thing to keep in mind is that cut sigs on trading cards are generally considered to be less attractive and therefore less valuable than signed documents.
Are you sure about this? I believe we have seen cut autos in cards command more than an actual, full, autographed documents. As strange as that is.

Another thing to consider that you are overlooking...how many documents did George Washington AND Abraham Lincoln sign together? And yet you can get one card that contains both signatures, and that's the case for many of these dual cut signatures. How often throughout history did these people actually sign the same document? Perhaps I should put it another way as well and include, "how many times were they part of the same document in any form?"

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Old 02-17-2009, 07:12 PM   #131 (permalink)
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Are you sure about this? I believe we have seen cut autos in cards command more than an actual, full, autographed documents. As strange as that is.

Another thing to consider that you are overlooking...how many documents did George Washington AND Abraham Lincoln sign together? And yet you can get one card that contains both signatures, and that's the case for many of these dual cut signatures. How often throughout history did these people actually sign the same document? Perhaps I should put it another way as well and include, "how many times were they part of the same document in any form?"

I'm sure the number of documents signed by both could be counted on your hands, and are probably in the smithsonian or national archives, since washington died ten years before lincoln was born.
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Old 02-17-2009, 07:17 PM   #132 (permalink)
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In case you ask Matt

box 8 of 99

Ronald Reagan / George Bush Sr.


Peter
Thanks Peter!
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Old 02-17-2009, 07:18 PM   #133 (permalink)
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I'm sure the number of documents signed by both could be counted on your hands, and are probably in the smithsonian or national archives, since washington died ten years before lincoln was born.
Exactly!!! That's why I gave a reason why some people might pay a LOT more money for these cards than the actual signed documents. I know I would, and I know I'm not the only one.
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Old 02-17-2009, 07:20 PM   #134 (permalink)
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Just saw this one on ebay, however it is not on the checklist, and the seller is listing it as card number 49, which is harrison/harrison on the checklist which has already been pulled. This is what happens when good companies aspire to be upper deck.

Oval Office Razor AUTO CALVIN COOLIDGE & WARREN HARDING - eBay (item 220363283905 end time Feb-23-09 15:40:31 PST)
Oh boy. Unless I have misunderstood you...How does this mean Razor is aspiring to be UD?
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Old 02-18-2009, 01:22 AM   #135 (permalink)
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Trying To Post Pics Of My Card Anyone Know How?
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Old 02-18-2009, 01:27 AM   #136 (permalink)
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did you really pull the Wash/Lincoln and the lincoln??
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Old 02-18-2009, 01:30 AM   #137 (permalink)
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haha no I wish... cant figure out how to reduce the size of the picture
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Old 02-18-2009, 01:38 AM   #138 (permalink)
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Default Lincoln Gw

Lincoln Gw [attach]Attachment 6483[/attach]
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Old 02-18-2009, 01:39 AM   #139 (permalink)
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Another thing to consider that you are overlooking...how many documents did George Washington AND Abraham Lincoln sign together? And yet you can get one card that contains both signatures, and that's the case for many of these dual cut signatures. How often throughout history did these people actually sign the same document? Perhaps I should put it another way as well and include, "how many times were they part of the same document in any form?"
That misses the point entirely. After all, there is nothing inherently unique or scarce about a dual sig card. Anybody can go out and buy the necessary cut signatures and display them together. The fact that Razor is the first to have done so means only that their item is unique until someone else comes along and imitates them (which given the nature of the hobby, shouldn't be too long!).

Heck, I could go out and buy a Washington sig and a Lincoln sig, have them framed and matted together, and have an item just as unique and scarce as Razor's card.
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Old 02-18-2009, 06:31 AM   #140 (permalink)
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Harry Truman/Thomas Dewey
Razor Oval Office Harry Truman Thomas Dewey Auto #1/1 - eBay (item 260362100051 end time Feb-20-09 19:00:48 PST)
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Old 02-18-2009, 10:30 AM   #141 (permalink)
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That misses the point entirely. After all, there is nothing inherently unique or scarce about a dual sig card. Anybody can go out and buy the necessary cut signatures and display them together. The fact that Razor is the first to have done so means only that their item is unique until someone else comes along and imitates them (which given the nature of the hobby, shouldn't be too long!).

Heck, I could go out and buy a Washington sig and a Lincoln sig, have them framed and matted together, and have an item just as unique and scarce as Razor's card.
So why not do it if it can bring the type of money that the Razor card will bring? Please oh please enlighten me. I hate "missing the point entirely".
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Old 02-18-2009, 11:00 AM   #142 (permalink)
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Pat,
When they sell you should add it to the list so we can compare how they all did.
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Old 02-18-2009, 11:26 AM   #143 (permalink)
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Pat,
When they sell you should add it to the list so we can compare how they all did.
ok, updated with sold pricing. if you see any that i missed, just pm or email me. or post here

thanks!
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Old 02-18-2009, 12:19 PM   #144 (permalink)
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[QUOTE=mwheeler27;171023]So why not do it if it can bring the type of money that the Razor card will bring? QUOTE]

'Cause I've got better things to do with my money, like actually buy cards I'm going to enjoy and keep.

The point I'm trying to make, though, is that artificially created scarcity is very different from true scarcity, and that most of the inserts/relics/sigs out there which manufacturers portray as being scarce really aren't.

Taking a sig and embedding it in a trading card doesn't increase the scarcity or value of the sig.

Taking two sigs and embedding them on opposite sides of a trading card doesn't increase their scarcity or value either.

Although Razor is trying to convince people that 1+1=3, the fact remains that 1+1=2.

Brian Gray (the owner of Razor) has said on another blog that he cumulatively spent about $100,000 on the sigs for this set. The fact that he has put them on trading cards, often in interesting combinations, doesn't change the fact that they are still only worth what he paid for them.
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Old 02-18-2009, 01:04 PM   #145 (permalink)
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How about some estimates what the lincoln/washington will bring?? It will be going up on Becketts auction house soon!! Becketts is a first class organization thats the best way to go! This is one Special card!!
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Old 02-18-2009, 01:22 PM   #146 (permalink)
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Pat,
When they sell you should add it to the list so we can compare how they all did.
Great Idea fishy

Pat could you put in BOLD RED would stand out better.

Just my 2 cents lolol


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Old 02-18-2009, 02:59 PM   #147 (permalink)
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MWF...I'm with ya man. I don't understand the hype about this product. Granted I wouldn't mind buying a card and making 300% profit but, it's unlikely with my luck.

A true historian would want a document, not just a signature. So eventually the product will be duped over and over again and then what...I think the hype will die down and these cards will do nothing but fall in value. Just my opinion and I hope I'm wrong really because, who wouldn't like to make a 2500 purchase that could net thousands more down the road.

When it comes to true historical artifacts an entire document is much more valuable then just a signature...or should we take a bunch of cut sigs from the Declaration of Independence.
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Old 02-18-2009, 10:50 PM   #148 (permalink)
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MWF...I'm with ya man. I don't understand the hype about this product. Granted I wouldn't mind buying a card and making 300% profit but, it's unlikely with my luck.

A true historian would want a document, not just a signature. So eventually the product will be duped over and over again and then what...I think the hype will die down and these cards will do nothing but fall in value. Just my opinion and I hope I'm wrong really because, who wouldn't like to make a 2500 purchase that could net thousands more down the road.

When it comes to true historical artifacts an entire document is much more valuable then just a signature...or should we take a bunch of cut sigs from the Declaration of Independence.
The same would be said about game used pieces in cards.


On a separate note. the Taft/Taft, Madison/Monroe, and Gerald Ford was pulled on FCB a few hours ago.
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Old 02-19-2009, 12:25 AM   #149 (permalink)
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This set is the first of it's kind. Maybe I'll be wrong, and maybe you guys will, but these cards will be sought after some day. They will end up on auction blocks. Even the "commons" that people think are worthless right now because they are part of THE set everyone will remember.

Let's not forget that something is worth what someone is willing to pay for it. If one of these cards bring twice as much as what a full signed document would bring, it's worth twice as much. Period. Why can't you understand that?

Maybe I'm biased because I bought and like the product. Maybe you're biased because you didn't. Time will tell what happens with this set, and I'd be willing to bet that I'm right. If I didn't like Sportkings so much, I'd buy every single card that comes up for sale. And I'd make a nice profit a few years down the road.
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Old 02-19-2009, 01:10 AM   #150 (permalink)
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This set is the first of it's kind. Maybe I'll be wrong, and maybe you guys will, but these cards will be sought after some day. They will end up on auction blocks. Even the "commons" that people think are worthless right now because they are part of THE set everyone will remember.

Let's not forget that something is worth what someone is willing to pay for it. If one of these cards bring twice as much as what a full signed document would bring, it's worth twice as much. Period. Why can't you understand that?

Maybe I'm biased because I bought and like the product. Maybe you're biased because you didn't. Time will tell what happens with this set, and I'd be willing to bet that I'm right. If I didn't like Sportkings so much, I'd buy every single card that comes up for sale. And I'd make a nice profit a few years down the road.
There is only one reason I will go against you on this one. I want to say this first, this is my opinion and I respect yours.

We have seen many first come in the sport. We have seen the first serial numbered card, the first jersey, the first auto and so on (No real investment there). We have seen historical autos, and we have seen them in duals already, just not in a pack form until now.

How about this, lets say it 20 years from now and were at an auction. Why should I buy this product with the "cut" auto instead of buying the entire document.
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