My 2 cases of Heroes arrived today and...

[anythingu]

Originally Posted by mwheeler27

1st box...Matt Parkman costume

2nd box...Hiro Nakamura costume

3rd box...Isaac Mendez costume (lots of "paint" on this piece of cloth)

4th box...Red, white and blue colored sketch of the political figure guy

5th box...Cute cheerleader sketch

6th box...Claire Bennet costume (red)

7th box...Masi Oka Auto

8th box...Black with blue background sketch of possibly the political figure guy's brother. LOL Sorry again that I don't know their names.

Over all, I think I did okay. I'm happy with the breaks. Can't wait to finish my break of Marvel Masterpieces now. I really like the sketch cards I have pulled so far.

4th box...Red, white and blue colored sketch of the political figure guy - Nathan Petrelli

8th box...Black with blue background sketch of possibly the political figure guy's brother. LOL Sorry again that I don't know their names. - Peter Petrelli

Lawrence

[mwheeler27]

Thanks Lawrence! I appreciate the help.

[Tim]

Originally Posted by anythingu

Agreed, this is where you and I differ. Since he pulled the third auto, he is selling the boxes because he knows there is a 95% or so chance that the next two boxes will have zero autos.

His buyer will have almost no chance at pulling an autograph which is the toughest hit in the case (on average), however, the buyer doesn't know this. The seller has taken the chance from him, but is still SELLING the chance.

This is my problem. Sellers are still selling the CHANCE to pull THE "hit" when the chance is virtually non-existant.

Here's an example. You go to a carnival and there's a game where there are 5 boxes. The game is simple. 4 of the boxes are empty. 1 box wins the "prize". You choose a box. It's empty. You figure, oh well, I had a 20% at winning anyways.

How would you feel if you found out later that all 5 boxes were empty?

Lawrence

I respect your opinion Lawrence. I see where you are coming from. But I respectfully disagree on this one point. I feel the seller has the right to sell them, and I still maintain the market for loose boxes on ebay reflects the risk involved when buying boxes in this instance. Very interesting commentary.

[anythingu]

Originally Posted by Tim

I respect your opinion Lawrence. I see where you are coming from. But I respectfully disagree on this one point. I feel the seller has the right to sell them, and I still maintain the market for loose boxes on ebay reflects the risk involved when buying boxes in this instance. Very interesting commentary.

The last few ending prices for boxes:

Ended 1/26 (Saturday):
$34.50
$49.89 (BIN)
$37.91

Ended 1/25 (Friday):
$46.00
$50.00 (Best Offer)
$49.88
$52.98
$45.00
$43.99
$39.50
$47.88

Blowout is at $43.75 per box (case purchase)

Each auction states in the description to look for Costume, Sketches AND Autographs.

Lawrence

[Tim]

Originally Posted by anythingu

The last few ending prices for boxes:

Ended 1/26 (Saturday):
$34.50
$49.89 (BIN)
$37.91

Ended 1/25 (Friday):
$46.00
$50.00 (Best Offer)
$49.88
$52.98
$45.00
$43.99
$39.50
$47.88

Blowout is at $43.75 per box (case purchase)

Each auction states in the description to look for Costume, Sketches AND Autographs.

Lawrence

I am talking about Legendary Cuts, Topps Sterling, etc. Topps Sterling boxes were going for $180.00 a box upon release, and 10-box cases were $2250.00.
Can you let this go? Or are you going to continue? Please explain why you aren't able to respect my opinion as I do yours. We aren't that far off to begin with. Do you have a problem with my mindset on the Heroes example? Because if you do, that was EXACTLY what I meant earlier by "sanctimonious."

[anythingu]

Originally Posted by Tim

I am talking about Legendary Cuts, Topps Sterling, etc. Topps Sterling boxes were going for $180.00 a box upon release, and 10-box cases were $2250.00.
Can you let this go? Or are you going to continue? Please explain why you aren't able to respect my opinion as I do yours. We aren't that far off to begin with. Do you have a problem with my mindset on the Heroes example? Because if you do, that was EXACTLY what I meant earlier by "sanctimonious."

Look, you keep posting your opinions. Why is it okay for YOU to post your rebuttals and opinions to MY opinions, but I'm "sanctimonious" for pointing out the holes your rebuttals? If you don't want people to point out the flaws in your opinions, then DON'T POST THEM.

You were the one that used the example of your Heroes "autograph" collector and selling off the 2 boxes left after he pulled his 3 autos. Your justification for it was that the box prices are "depressed" because those people who are buying boxes on eBay would factor that people are selling dead boxes off and the prices would reflect that.

I was showing you that your assumption in this regard was off. The final ending prices were consistent with current box prices so there was hardly ANY DEPRESSION on final box sales, thus sellers who were selling dead boxes were NOT being "punished" for it and the buyers who were buying these boxes were paying for a chance at an auto that doesn't exist.

Okay, let's try 2007 Legendary Cuts. Final ending prices are:

$137.50 (for 2)
$139.50 (for 2)
$67.00
$75.00
$61.65
$67.99
$99.99 (for 2)
$96.01 (for 2)
$100.52 (for 2)
$81.00
$63.36
$74.95

Blowout is at $65.63

Why can't I respect your opinion? You're trying to give justification for ripping people off. I noticed you never gave me an answer to the carnival question so I'll pose a different question to make it more relevant:

You go to a card shop and they are having a special promotion for Heroes. There are 8 envelopes. He says to you, "For $20, you can choose an envelope for the hits in Heroes. You have a shot at a costume, sketch or autographed card." You say, "Cool, for less than a price of a box, I get the hit. Sounds good." You pick your envelope and pull the Parkman Uniform Card. You say to yourself, "Well, I knew they were in there and I really had a 1:8 or 2:8 shot at the autograph anyways, so not like I was going to pull it."

As you're heading out, a disgruntled employee tells you that all 8 envelope has Parkman costume cards......how do you feel?

Using your opinion, the card shop owner is justifed in doing this and you should not feel upset. In my opinion, the card shop owner is wrong and you should be furious. It's a matter of ethics.

This is why I have a problem.

Lawrence

[BAMBAM]

You are BOTH right and bring up valid points but I think the only the whole right/wrong issue really depends on how far the seller is willing to go to sell the boxes.

Your 2 points were with fleabay sellers and store owners so we'll use those and a case of Legendary Cuts :

1.) Fleabay seller - if the seller opened boxes from a sealed case, pulled the cut and then listed the other using a chance at a cut auto as a selling point than I believe that is wrong. If someone emails aquestion asking if all the boxes are from the same case and if the cut was pulled I believe the seller is obligated to answer truthfully wether it costs him a sale or not. I believe the buyer may pass on those boxes BUT have alot of respect for your honesty and buy from you later.

2.) Store owner - shop owners sell a box out of a fresh case. Customer pulls the cut right in front of the owner. Is the owner supposed to advertise that the cut was pulled on the other boxes ? Hell no but is he obligated to tell a potential customer that the cut was pulled if they ask ? Hell yeah !

[Tim]

Originally Posted by anythingu

Look, you keep posting your opinions. Why is it okay for YOU to post your rebuttals and opinions to MY opinions, but I'm "sanctimonious" for pointing out the holes your rebuttals? If you don't want people to point out the flaws in your opinions, then DON'T POST THEM.

You were the one that used the example of your Heroes "autograph" collector and selling off the 2 boxes left after he pulled his 3 autos. Your justification for it was that the box prices are "depressed" because those people who are buying boxes on eBay would factor that people are selling dead boxes off and the prices would reflect that.

I was showing you that your assumption in this regard was off. The final ending prices were consistent with current box prices so there was hardly ANY DEPRESSION on final box sales, thus sellers who were selling dead boxes were NOT being "punished" for it and the buyers who were buying these boxes were paying for a chance at an auto that doesn't exist.

Okay, let's try 2007 Legendary Cuts. Final ending prices are:

$137.50 (for 2)
$139.50 (for 2)
$67.00
$75.00
$61.65
$67.99
$99.99 (for 2)
$96.01 (for 2)
$100.52 (for 2)
$81.00
$63.36
$74.95

Blowout is at $65.63

Why can't I respect your opinion? You're trying to give justification for ripping people off. I noticed you never gave me an answer to the carnival question so I'll pose a different question to make it more relevant:

You go to a card shop and they are having a special promotion for Heroes. There are 8 envelopes. He says to you, "For $20, you can choose an envelope for the hits in Heroes. You have a shot at a costume, sketch or autographed card." You say, "Cool, for less than a price of a box, I get the hit. Sounds good." You pick your envelope and pull the Parkman Uniform Card. You say to yourself, "Well, I knew they were in there and I really had a 1:8 or 2:8 shot at the autograph anyways, so not like I was going to pull it."

As you're heading out, a disgruntled employee tells you that all 8 envelope has Parkman costume cards......how do you feel?

Using your opinion, the card shop owner is justifed in doing this and you should not feel upset. In my opinion, the card shop owner is wrong and you should be furious. It's a matter of ethics.

This is why I have a problem.

Lawrence

Your L Cuts example was a waste of your time, b/c I know for a fact when the product first comes out the price difference between boxes and cases -- watch it every year and it's always the same. Depressed box prices vs. much higher case prices divided by the number of boxes in the case.

I thought when I said I agreed with all your points except the Heroes original question that I answered your "carnival" question then. I did not know you required an explicit response to that exact question (which by the way, is apples vs oranges anyway).

For the record, I do not cherry pick my cases, but I have NO problem with someone who chooses to do as they wish with their product. It's their business and their conscience. If I were in the OP's shoes, I would sell the boxes. You would not. And that's fine. I respect that and I salute you for it. Typically, I am not in that situation, though. My 99.8% with over 11,000 positive feedbacks and NUMEROUS big pulls in the comments all speaks for itself. However, I am not the moral police and where *I* have the problem is when someone else tries to impose his or her will on another person, which is clearly what you are doing.

[Tim]

Originally Posted by BAMBAM

You are BOTH right and bring up valid points but I think the only the whole right/wrong issue really depends on how far the seller is willing to go to sell the boxes.

Your 2 points were with fleabay sellers and store owners so we'll use those and a case of Legendary Cuts :

1.) Fleabay seller - if the seller opened boxes from a sealed case, pulled the cut and then listed the other using a chance at a cut auto as a selling point than I believe that is wrong. If someone emails aquestion asking if all the boxes are from the same case and if the cut was pulled I believe the seller is obligated to answer truthfully wether it costs him a sale or not. I believe the buyer may pass on those boxes BUT have alot of respect for your honesty and buy from you later.

2.) Store owner - shop owners sell a box out of a fresh case. Customer pulls the cut right in front of the owner. Is the owner supposed to advertise that the cut was pulled on the other boxes ? Hell no but is he obligated to tell a potential customer that the cut was pulled if they ask ? Hell yeah !

I agree 100% with every word of this post. Bam -- if you were in fleabay seller 1's shoes, would you purposely put in your listing that the cut was pulled?

[anythingu]

Originally Posted by Tim

Your L Cuts example was a waste of your time, b/c I know for a fact when the product first comes out the price difference between boxes and cases -- watch it every year and it's always the same. Depressed box prices vs. much higher case prices divided by the number of boxes in the case.

I thought when I said I agreed with all your points except the Heroes original question that I answered your "carnival" question then. I did not know you required an explicit response to that exact question (which by the way, is apples vs oranges anyway).

For the record, I do not cherry pick my cases, but I have NO problem with someone who chooses to do as they wish with their product. It's their business and their conscience. If I were in the OP's shoes, I would sell the boxes. You would not. And that's fine. I respect that and I salute you for it. Typically, I am not in that situation, though. My 99.8% with over 11,000 positive feedbacks and NUMEROUS big pulls in the comments all speaks for itself. However, I am not the moral police and where *I* have the problem is when someone else tries to impose his or her will on another person, which is clearly what you are doing.

And you call ME "sanctimonius"?

You contradicted yourself.

First you state, you don't cherry pick your cases. Then you follow that up by saying that if you were in the OP's shoes that you would sell the boxes from a cherry picked case.

Which is it?

If you have no problem with someone selling dead boxes, then why did you type, "it's their conscience"? This means what you think they are doing is wrong because their conscience SHOULD be bothering them in their opinion.

As for this, "My 99.8% with over 11,000 positive feedbacks and NUMEROUS big pulls in the comments all speaks for itself." Well duh, if you don't sell cherry picked boxes, of COURSE you're going to have NUMEROUS big pulls in your comments.

Shaking head.

Lawrence