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Old 07-05-2012, 06:48 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default 2000 Inkworks Tomb Raider Angelina Jolie Autograph #A1 BGS 9.5 FOR SALE

I am the 2nd owner. Purchased this raw 3-4 yrs ago, and then had it graded. POP REPORT: 2 BGS 9.5s only!

$800 OBO. Last BGS 9 version sold for $500. Please note "OBO." I currently have it on the bay as well.

If trading, I would need atleast $500 in PAYPAL and the rest can be in TRADE.

PLEASE NOTE: It is the buyer's discretion if they choose to purchase this card. I am not liable if this card is fake. I was merely a 2nd owner of this card that purchased this card in its raw form (no grades) and then had it authenticated/graded by a reputable company. As for myself, I still give it the benefit of the doubt that this card is legit.

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Old 07-05-2012, 09:48 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Ouch buddy I think that is one of the infamous fakes out there...





Calling Webjon... can we get a Webjon in here...

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Old 07-05-2012, 10:14 PM   #3 (permalink)
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who did you purchase this card from?

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Old 07-05-2012, 10:22 PM   #4 (permalink)
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BGS doesn't authenticate the autograph...they only grade the card and grade the autograph. When they grade an autograph it does not signify that the autograph is authentic...that is why they have the JSA/BGS service.

If you are 100% positive this is real then send it into JSA as well...they will authenticate it and re-slab it with BGS showing your card grade, auto grade, and showing as authentic with the JSA name attached to it.
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Old 07-05-2012, 10:32 PM   #5 (permalink)
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I would tend to agree with the previous posters. Here is a link to Jon's page on that particular card.

http://webjon.com/blog/?p=873
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Old 07-05-2012, 10:39 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by John91C View Post
BGS doesn't authenticate the autograph...they only grade the card and grade the autograph. When they grade an autograph it does not signify that the autograph is authentic...that is why they have the JSA/BGS service.

If you are 100% positive this is real then send it into JSA as well...they will authenticate it and re-slab it with BGS showing your card grade, auto grade, and showing as authentic with the JSA name attached to it.
At this point I wouldn't put any more money into the card if I were him until someone like Webjon comes in and provides some degree that it is authentic...
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Old 07-05-2012, 10:50 PM   #7 (permalink)
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there's a thread about this card on another site
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Old 07-05-2012, 11:50 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Here is a better scan of the card Baytowntex posted. . .



I would try to get your money back from BGS, they said on Card Talk that they would refund anyone's money who bought a counterfeit card they graded. . . I've yet to see them actually do it, but it could be worth a shot.
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Old 07-05-2012, 11:52 PM   #9 (permalink)
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I would tend to agree with the previous posters. Here is a link to Jon's page on that particular card.

http://webjon.com/blog/?p=873
Thanks, Iggy. . .

Is webjon.com responding painfully slow for anyone else, or just me? I've got a support ticket in to the host, but I think it may be time to move webjon . . . the first image in the post doesn't show up for me either, even though I've verified the link is correct. . . aggravating.
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Old 07-06-2012, 12:07 AM   #10 (permalink)
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It would be very very interesting to see who you bought this from...
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Old 07-06-2012, 12:07 AM   #11 (permalink)
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I guess anyone can take it with a grade of salt...the discussion about this and my card was on the nonsportcardsforum here

Opinions needed about Jolie auto on the bay. - Non Sports Card Forum

This was WEBJON'S response to my card on NCSF:

"Without seeing the card in person I hate to even hazard a guess. . . it appears to be the exact same signature as a bunch of the cards that have been identified as fake. But it doesn't have the autopen dots that you see on the fake signatures, so it could be the template they used to generate the fakes. . . or not.

There doesn't seem to be any feathering in the signature, which is concerning, but doesn't necessarily mean anything (also there may be slight feathering that doesn't show up in a scan).

Without more information about the seller, or seeing the card in person I'd be cautious of any Jolie, and this card isn't an exception.

Jon"

Like what I've posted in my auction, I am the 2nd owner. Bought the card raw 3-4 or even 5 years ago for my PC. Had it graded and slabbed. I no longer have the information on who I bought it from but I can vaguely remember the seller stating it was pack pulled. So for those that are interested, I would take it with a grain of salt...it's either legit or fake...it's a mixed bag. For me, I'm an optimist...and therefore giving the card the benefit of the doubt that it is legit.
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Old 07-06-2012, 12:52 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by webjon View Post
Here is a better scan of the card Baytowntex posted. . .



I would try to get your money back from BGS, they said on Card Talk that they would refund anyone's money who bought a counterfeit card they graded. . . I've yet to see them actually do it, but it could be worth a shot.
Why would BGS give your money back? They never said the autograph was authentic...they only graded the actual condition of the card and the condition of the autograph. When BGS grades an autograph they only look at certain elements (streaking, bleeding, runs of the card, etc) they do not look to see if it's authentic. They have a joint venture with JSA for authenticating autographs. BGS is not at fault here...it's the same way with sports cards as well...
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Old 07-06-2012, 12:53 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by advan24r View Post
I guess anyone can take it with a grade of salt...the discussion about this and my card was on the nonsportcardsforum here

Opinions needed about Jolie auto on the bay. - Non Sports Card Forum

This was WEBJON'S response to my card on NCSF:

"Without seeing the card in person I hate to even hazard a guess. . . it appears to be the exact same signature as a bunch of the cards that have been identified as fake. But it doesn't have the autopen dots that you see on the fake signatures, so it could be the template they used to generate the fakes. . . or not.

There doesn't seem to be any feathering in the signature, which is concerning, but doesn't necessarily mean anything (also there may be slight feathering that doesn't show up in a scan).

Without more information about the seller, or seeing the card in person I'd be cautious of any Jolie, and this card isn't an exception.

Jon"

Like what I've posted in my auction, I am the 2nd owner. Bought the card raw 3-4 or even 5 years ago for my PC. Had it graded and slabbed. I no longer have the information on who I bought it from but I can vaguely remember the seller stating it was pack pulled. So for those that are interested, I would take it with a grain of salt...it's either legit or fake...it's a mixed bag. For me, I'm an optimist...and therefore giving the card the benefit of the doubt that it is legit.
Would you be willing to send it into JSA/BGS and get it certified authentic as well?
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Old 07-06-2012, 01:04 AM   #14 (permalink)
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Why would BGS give your money back? They never said the autograph was authentic...they only graded the actual condition of the card and the condition of the autograph. When BGS grades an autograph they only look at certain elements (streaking, bleeding, runs of the card, etc) they do not look to see if it's authentic. They have a joint venture with JSA for authenticating autographs. BGS is not at fault here...it's the same way with sports cards as well...
They said they would refund money if the card itself is counterfeit... In these cases they likely are... this isn't likely a legit card with a fake autograph, more realistically the entire card would be fake.
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Old 07-06-2012, 01:07 AM   #15 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by John91C View Post
Why would BGS give your money back? They never said the autograph was authentic...they only graded the actual condition of the card and the condition of the autograph. When BGS grades an autograph they only look at certain elements (streaking, bleeding, runs of the card, etc) they do not look to see if it's authentic. They have a joint venture with JSA for authenticating autographs. BGS is not at fault here...it's the same way with sports cards as well...
BGS is the top name in the card industry.. they should not be grading counterfiet cards PERIOD.
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Old 07-06-2012, 01:34 AM   #16 (permalink)
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Would you be willing to send it into JSA/BGS and get it certified authentic as well?
At this moment, I don't want to be opening another can of worms on this card. I just want to sell and get some money out of this hobby since I've been trying to slim down my collection to fund for a nice watch. If you check out the baseball and basketball threads, I've been throwing up some high end lots for sale as well as asking people's opinions about watch collecting or sports cards, which would be a better investment?
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Old 07-06-2012, 01:37 AM   #17 (permalink)
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Thanks, Iggy. . .

Is webjon.com responding painfully slow for anyone else, or just me? I've got a support ticket in to the host, but I think it may be time to move webjon . . . the first image in the post doesn't show up for me either, even though I've verified the link is correct. . . aggravating.
Sweet - it wasn't just me.
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Old 07-06-2012, 01:38 AM   #18 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by advan24r View Post
At this moment, I don't want to be opening another can of worms on this card. I just want to sell and get some money out of this hobby since I've been trying to slim down my collection to fund for a nice watch. If you check out the baseball and basketball threads, I've been throwing up some high end lots for sale as well as asking people's opinions about watch collecting or sports cards, which would be a better investment?
you should just try to get your money back from who you got it from
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Old 07-06-2012, 01:42 AM   #19 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by baytowntex View Post
BGS is the top name in the card industry.. they should not be grading counterfiet cards PERIOD.
How would they know this card was counterfeit? BGS doesn't authenticate autographs..they hire another company to do so if the person grading wants that service...so again, how would BGS know this card was counterfeit at the time they were grading the card?
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Old 07-06-2012, 01:48 AM   #20 (permalink)
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How would they know this card was counterfeit? BGS doesn't authenticate autographs..they hire another company to do so if the person grading wants that service...so again, how would BGS know this card was counterfeit at the time they were grading the card?
well if they do not know if the card is 100% authentic, then they should not attempt to grade the card..
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Old 07-06-2012, 01:56 AM   #21 (permalink)
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well if they do not know if the card is 100% authentic, then they should not attempt to grade the card..
Have you really not been paying attention to the thread? BGS grades the autograph on the aspects of streaking, placement, flaws, etc...THEY DO NOT AUTHENTICATE AUTOGRAPHS...they have a JOINT VENTURE WITH JSA for autograph authenticating.

PER BGS WEBSITE:

Beckett Grading Services will grade cards with "certified autographs". That is, cards issued by major manufacturers that carry additional design elements indicating the manufacturer has certified the autograph of the card. The autograph itself will not be authenticated, but will be given a separate numerical grade based on the quality of the ink signature.

In grading the autograph itself on a card, the key feature being examined is the production quality and clarity of the signature (and other after-market ink, such as hand serial-numbering or inscriptions). This does not take into account the legibility of the player's autograph; rather, it involves aspects such as bubbling, smearing, positioning/location, etc.

The autograph subgrade will stand alone and play no part in determining the overall grade. Generally speaking, autograph flaws will only deduct from the autograph grade. For example, a card that was signed and immediately smeared will get a lower grade on the autograph, but the surface will not be affected. An exception to this rule would be if the autograph flaw affects both the signature quality and the card itself; for instance, a signed cut that creases the surface and also smears the autograph. The best rule of thumb is that any flaws related to the actual ink of the autograph will normally be deducted from the autograph grade, while other flaws generally are taken into account on the surface grade. When the signature is on a sticker or cut, and the sticker/cut itself is creased (or torn, stained, etc.), this is taken into account in the surface grade. Excess glue bleeding onto the cut is also counted against surface. If the flaw also damages the autograph itself, both the surface and autograph grade may be lowered.



So BGS is not responsible if the card has a counterfeit autograph...now if it's found the autograph is counterfeit (after it's been graded) they might have a policy to refund the fees but that is a completely separate issue.
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Old 07-06-2012, 02:00 AM   #22 (permalink)
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Have you really not been paying attention to the thread? BGS grades the autograph on the aspects of streaking, placement, flaws, etc...THEY DO NOT AUTHENTICATE AUTOGRAPHS...they have a JOINT VENTURE WITH JSA for autograph authenticating.

PER BGS WEBSITE:

Beckett Grading Services will grade cards with "certified autographs". That is, cards issued by major manufacturers that carry additional design elements indicating the manufacturer has certified the autograph of the card. The autograph itself will not be authenticated, but will be given a separate numerical grade based on the quality of the ink signature.

In grading the autograph itself on a card, the key feature being examined is the production quality and clarity of the signature (and other after-market ink, such as hand serial-numbering or inscriptions). This does not take into account the legibility of the player's autograph; rather, it involves aspects such as bubbling, smearing, positioning/location, etc.

The autograph subgrade will stand alone and play no part in determining the overall grade. Generally speaking, autograph flaws will only deduct from the autograph grade. For example, a card that was signed and immediately smeared will get a lower grade on the autograph, but the surface will not be affected. An exception to this rule would be if the autograph flaw affects both the signature quality and the card itself; for instance, a signed cut that creases the surface and also smears the autograph. The best rule of thumb is that any flaws related to the actual ink of the autograph will normally be deducted from the autograph grade, while other flaws generally are taken into account on the surface grade. When the signature is on a sticker or cut, and the sticker/cut itself is creased (or torn, stained, etc.), this is taken into account in the surface grade. Excess glue bleeding onto the cut is also counted against surface. If the flaw also damages the autograph itself, both the surface and autograph grade may be lowered.



So BGS is not responsible if the card is counterfeit autograph...not if it's found the autograph is counterfeit they might have a policy to refund the fees but that is a completely separate issue.


I can not support either company..if you want to know why then ask me

Last edited by baytowntex; 07-06-2012 at 02:33 AM.
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Old 07-06-2012, 02:07 AM   #23 (permalink)
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JSA will most likely give an OPINION on whether this card is real or not..am i correct?
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Old 07-06-2012, 08:47 AM   #24 (permalink)
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yes ALL 3rd party authentication companies give OPINIONS...which I don't have a problem with because their OPINIONS are a lot more valued than my OPINION (since autograph authentication isn't my profession).

I won't get into an argument about PSA/BGS/JSA on opinions...every grading card company gives OPINIONS as well.
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Old 07-06-2012, 06:59 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by advan24r View Post
I am the 2nd owner. Purchased this raw 3-4 yrs ago, and then had it graded. POP REPORT: 2 BGS 9.5s only!

$800 OBO. Last BGS 9 version sold for $500. Please note "OBO." I currently have it on the bay as well.

If trading, I would need atleast $500 in PAYPAL and the rest can be in TRADE.

This card is fake, do not sell it and become a scammer!
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