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Old 03-11-2017, 01:51 AM   #151 (permalink)
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^Does that mean it's time to panic? Aka - buy now? Do they know something we don't?
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Old 03-11-2017, 03:30 AM   #152 (permalink)
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^Does that mean it's time to panic? Aka - buy now? Do they know something we don't?
DAC totally removed it from their site.

Something is up... maybe less printed than people originally thought.
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Old 03-11-2017, 03:41 AM   #153 (permalink)
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Remember these are 8 boxes cases too, so the equivalent 12 box case price would be $1125. I think this one has probably sailed now, but regardless of that, if Topps are moving to a situation of printing based on preorders then that is a good thing. The last few years have been littered with releases needing deep and relentless discounting to move what has been too often over produced and watered down product. I for one hope things are changing to help ensure the loyal customer or dealer who pre-orders isn't always the one losing out.

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Old 03-11-2017, 01:40 PM   #154 (permalink)
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Locked in at under 600 a case... good luck to all


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Old 03-11-2017, 04:08 PM   #155 (permalink)
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I would caution people not to overreact. DACW pre-sales only a certain amount, and then waits until release day to put the rest of their stock on their website. That's their way of making sure they have enough product at release (and not pre-selling too much).

BO continues to pre-sale almost all items up until release. How are they able to do that? They raise their prices to levels where they know they will be able to buy anything past their original allocation from dealernet to meet all of their obligations.

So far, there's been no information released which would justify a large increase in price, so I would expect that at release there will be plenty of direct accounts selling cases around $700.
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Old 03-11-2017, 06:22 PM   #156 (permalink)
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I would caution people not to overreact. DACW pre-sales only a certain amount, and then waits until release day to put the rest of their stock on their website. That's their way of making sure they have enough product at release (and not pre-selling too much).

BO continues to pre-sale almost all items up until release. How are they able to do that? They raise their prices to levels where they know they will be able to buy anything past their original allocation from dealernet to meet all of their obligations.

So far, there's been no information released which would justify a large increase in price, so I would expect that at release there will be plenty of direct accounts selling cases around $700.
I agree with a lot of what you said and BO manages their pre-sales better than anyone.

However, the fact that all of the sellers I'm in contact with have exhausted their pre-sales this early and are unsure of how much more they are going to get, are early indications of a sell out. That being said, without having any solid info on production rates, it's still too early to know.

One thing for sure is that there is a lot of interested in this release (including me), so I'm expecting good things from Topps :-)
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Old 03-11-2017, 06:51 PM   #157 (permalink)
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I would caution people not to overreact. DACW pre-sales only a certain amount, and then waits until release day to put the rest of their stock on their website. That's their way of making sure they have enough product at release (and not pre-selling too much).

BO continues to pre-sale almost all items up until release. How are they able to do that? They raise their prices to levels where they know they will be able to buy anything past their original allocation from dealernet to meet all of their obligations.

So far, there's been no information released which would justify a large increase in price, so I would expect that at release there will be plenty of direct accounts selling cases around $700.
Oh ok. Was just shocked to see the price jump so much so quick. So if BO has 3 left... we can buy them for $750... but they know they can buy them for $680 from dealernet.
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Old 03-13-2017, 10:10 AM   #158 (permalink)
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Ok folks. BO is now selling cases for $875 a pop. Other places to purchase are few and far between.
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Old 03-13-2017, 10:33 AM   #159 (permalink)
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Ok folks. BO is now selling cases for $875 a pop. Other places to purchase are few and far between.
That is ridiculous! This product might end up being great, but not $110 a box great.
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Old 03-13-2017, 10:47 AM   #160 (permalink)
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That is ridiculous! This product might end up being great, but not $110 a box great.
It does seem excessive. However, I don't see BO as one who would price gouge. I believe there is a true justification on some level.

One distributor site shows they are SOLD OUT.
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Old 03-13-2017, 12:29 PM   #161 (permalink)
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When I read Topps might finally print to a semblance of customer or distributor orders I was very sceptical. But it finally looks like they might try to be changing their approach after two years of products that have had to be hugely discounted to clear the large backlogs (some of which are still available now). It's a good move, as it rewards people who pre-order, rather than penalise as has been the case so often recently.
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Old 03-13-2017, 01:05 PM   #162 (permalink)
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When I read Topps might finally print to a semblance of customer or distributor orders I was very sceptical. But it finally looks like they might try to be changing their approach after two years of products that have had to be hugely discounted to clear the large backlogs (some of which are still available now). It's a good move, as it rewards people who pre-order, rather than penalise as has been the case so often recently.
I, as well, am very curious to see if they have finally learned their lesson after a rough couple years. I didn't think it could happen but we will see, this product could be amazing but it'll bomb hard if they didn't learn and overproduce
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Old 03-13-2017, 01:46 PM   #163 (permalink)
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Okay, interesting news. Outside of Masterworks, I don't remember this kind of price jump with so much time on the board (May 3rd!). Pre-order pricing from Distributors was around $560. Which means cost was maybe $540ish, give or take.

Prices are now $315 over dist pricing with almost 2 months till release? Something is up that's for sure. very strange. I mean, its not like its NT or Flawless here..
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Old 03-13-2017, 01:55 PM   #164 (permalink)
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Okay, interesting news. Outside of Masterworks, I don't remember this kind of price jump with so much time on the board (May 3rd!). Pre-order pricing from Distributors was around $560. Which means cost was maybe $540ish, give or take.

Prices are now $315 over dist pricing with almost 2 months till release? Something is up that's for sure. very strange. I mean, its not like its NT or Flawless here..
And we know so little about what is actually in the product or how much is made!
Maybe people are just looking at what the 30th cards are worth.

I think most would agree that a low end base auto from the 40th set will be worth more than an auto from a product like Evolution or the likes, so boxes should cost much more. The question though, is it worth 3 times more than a product like Evolution?

Some would say yes, but mainly just because this product is better to keep and is new. Having that 40th stamp on the card makes the collectability much higher.
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Old 03-13-2017, 02:03 PM   #165 (permalink)
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And we know so little about what is actually in the product or how much is made!

Maybe people are just looking at what the 30th cards are worth.



I think most would agree that a low end base auto from the 40th set will be worth more than an auto from a product like Evolution or the likes, so boxes should cost much more. The question though, is it worth 3 times more than a product like Evolution?



Some would say yes, but mainly just because this product is better to keep and is new. Having that 40th stamp on the card makes the collectability much higher.


I don't value stamps or parallels. A tim rose is a tim rose.

I mainly want some signer previews. A big seller would be new signers or behind the scenes people like 30th had. If the multi-autos are the only new/big thing, that will do very little to help.

Sketches will be a big player in sales. Medallions are meh.

I also think the price increase could be fake or to control the market. Sites could slowly increase knowing some will panic and order out of worry.


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Old 03-13-2017, 02:16 PM   #166 (permalink)
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I don't value stamps or parallels. A tim rose is a tim rose.

I mainly want some signer previews. A big seller would be new signers or behind the scenes people like 30th had. If the multi-autos are the only new/big thing, that will do very little to help.

Sketches will be a big player in sales. Medallions are meh.

I also think the price increase could be fake or to control the market. Sites could slowly increase knowing some will panic and order out of worry.


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To your last point, I think the price increase indicates lower than normal presale inventory along with heightened interest in obtaining the cases due to a perceived shortage.

I would expect cases will be available once it's live.
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Old 03-13-2017, 02:59 PM   #167 (permalink)
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I think most would agree that a low end base auto from the 40th set will be worth more than an auto from a product like Evolution or the likes, so boxes should cost much more. The question though, is it worth 3 times more than a product like Evolution?

Some would say yes, but mainly just because this product is better to keep and is new. Having that 40th stamp on the card makes the collectability much higher.
I don't think I agree with this. Vargaman is right, the 50,000,000th Tim Rose is still the 50,000,000th Tim Rose.
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Old 03-13-2017, 03:04 PM   #168 (permalink)
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I would caution people not to overreact. DACW pre-sales only a certain amount, and then waits until release day to put the rest of their stock on their website. That's their way of making sure they have enough product at release (and not pre-selling too much).

BO continues to pre-sale almost all items up until release. How are they able to do that? They raise their prices to levels where they know they will be able to buy anything past their original allocation from dealernet to meet all of their obligations.

So far, there's been no information released which would justify a large increase in price, so I would expect that at release there will be plenty of direct accounts selling cases around $700.
Is BO just covering their bases with this latest increase? I understood the initial increase.... but was that not enough? Or is this just a sign of things to come and $875 will look like a deal in 2 weeks?
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Old 03-13-2017, 03:06 PM   #169 (permalink)
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I don't think I agree with this. Vargaman is right, the 50,000,000th Tim Rose is still the 50,000,000th Tim Rose.
I agree with you for most products. Most people are not trying to put together autograph sets from most products, they are getting autos of people they like or don't have yet.

However there are certain sets where people are more likely to go after an auto set, or as close as they can get, and this is that kind of set.
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Old 03-13-2017, 03:07 PM   #170 (permalink)
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When I read Topps might finally print to a semblance of customer or distributor orders I was very sceptical. But it finally looks like they might try to be changing their approach after two years of products that have had to be hugely discounted to clear the large backlogs (some of which are still available now). It's a good move, as it rewards people who pre-order, rather than penalize as has been the case so often recently.

If they do, and that's a big if, printing to preorders would be big. Cryptozoic has done this in the past with certain non-sport releases. I remember several (though can't remember which) releases in which each box/case produced more hits than the advertised rate.

Imagine if Topps decided to do this, but still released the same amount of "hits" that they had intended on releasing. More content per box

Wishful thinking I know.
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Old 03-13-2017, 03:15 PM   #171 (permalink)
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Another thing I thought about. Is word starting to get out from guys who are manufacturing this set that less is being printed? It's been 2 months since pre-order window closed (Jan 11th). Maybe they are deep enough into the process that the guys working are seeing less than normal. And they talking to guys they know and those guys are trying to buy more.
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Old 03-13-2017, 03:36 PM   #172 (permalink)
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Another thing I thought about. Is word starting to get out from guys who are manufacturing this set that less is being printed? It's been 2 months since pre-order window closed (Jan 11th). Maybe they are deep enough into the process that the guys working are seeing less than normal. And they talking to guys they know and those guys are trying to buy more.
That almost sounds like insider trading. I feel like the company would have gag orders/policies on that kind of stuff, as it could sway the market unfairly???
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Old 03-13-2017, 03:38 PM   #173 (permalink)
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I agree with you for most products. Most people are not trying to put together autograph sets from most products, they are getting autos of people they like or don't have yet.

However there are certain sets where people are more likely to go after an auto set, or as close as they can get, and this is that kind of set.
I can get behind that reasoning. This set will probably see more set collectors chasing than other SW sets.
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Old 03-13-2017, 03:39 PM   #174 (permalink)
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There is probably something behind this, but until we see the product it's all speculation. Topps might print some more now, but that would be a disaster as it just puts us back to the situation of the past 2 years. Something had to change. By the end of last year the market was wracked with half a dozen releases on 50% sale, that doesn't help anybody in the supply or buying chain and was ultimately damaging the SW Topps brand.

Perhaps Disney cottoned on to what was happening with over production and have been involved in this apparent change in tack? If so I applaud them.
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Old 03-13-2017, 03:54 PM   #175 (permalink)
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It does appear that Topps is making less product in 2017 vs 2016, which is good for card values.
Older cases have even increased in price and product has dried up for some as well, because people can now afford to go back and buy older product.
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