Blowout Cards Forums
Mike Trout

Go Back   Blowout Cards Forums > BLOWOUTS HOBBY TALK > NON-SPORTS


NON-SPORTS Post Your Non-Sports Cards Hobby Talk

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 04-28-2017, 02:50 PM   #226 (permalink)
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 60
Default

If they made MM16 base Holofoil #/25 and made the Kaleidoscope parallel the base, it might have actually made chasing the rare version worth it.

I do like the parallels on the Canvas, though. It's like upgrading from MM95 inserts to MM96 inserts. And I like silver/rainbow foil on the (#/25) over the bronze (#/99), so I bought a handful of those.

So slightly off-topic, but why the heck was Mephisto a Tier 4 character in MM16? All the other Tier 4 characters I get, but at the very least, Captain America, Thor and Magneto were much, much more worthy of Tier 4 status. Mephisto was never all that big outside of a couple storylines way back in the day, AFAIK. And he was never of chase card worthiness in any previous Marvel set.

Is Mephisto part of the Fantastic 4 movie rights?

Or is it merely because of having Silver Surfer in the card with him? It's interesting that the Gold Signature card has the sig covering Silver Surfer, instead of moving the sig up, like they do in some of the other Gold Signature cards.

Is Marvel so "screw Fox" that they made a who-gives-a-duck character superstar status?
Half Vaped is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-28-2017, 03:20 PM   #227 (permalink)
Member
 
BHotz's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 652
Default

Quote:
For anyone who has expressed concerns over sketch cards, I hear and understand the concerns. Anyone who opened Marvel Masterpieces 2016 knows they fell inside every box. We didn't want to photocopy the breakdown of content into other products. Spider-Man has additional and new content that separates it. In addition, we were able to increase the quality of the art associated with Spider-Man. Granted that Art is subjective, but I was quite impressed with the artwork I saw as a whole.
Also appreciate the communication and great to hear the feedback is being heard.

Will also supplement what others have said about the sketches and add that even a 1:2/3/4 boxes is so much better than 1:6 boxes at these prices. The sketch market is soooooo saturated that it usually takes a big name AND nice quality to equal a big hit. So if the artist list is still expansive then even with better quality checks 1:6 is still going to add such tiny value to a case. Hopefully future sets don't ever follow this pattern again especially at this price point unless, maybe, there are insane hits to make up for it.

This set as a whole looks pretty solid/cool. Like others I also worry about the print-run. But as mainly a sketch collector and even though I LOVED the Fleer Ultra stuff from the 90s, I'll definitely be buying by the box and not entertain cases what-so-ever.

Last edited by BHotz; 04-28-2017 at 03:23 PM.
BHotz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-28-2017, 07:37 PM   #228 (permalink)
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 48
Default

Hey UpperdeckMatt,

Thanks for posting and I really appreciate hearing that you keep an eye on what we all talk about. I can only speak for myself and my two brothers who could only afford to order one inner case to split between the three of us. We were all extremely excited for this product with the original card artwork. After reading your post and seeing the checklist, all I can say is that I could not be more bummed. To have a product this high end (~800 for our inner case) and to not even get a sketch card per box is disappointing beyond belief. Sketch cards are the driving interest for marvel cards for us. Anyways, thanks for listening, and we hope our opinion is heard. Look forward to the next set that is hopefully sketch centered and as fun as Marvel Masterpieces was.
Jakecg11 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-28-2017, 08:46 PM   #229 (permalink)
Upper Deck
 
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 45
Talking

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jakecg11 View Post
Hey UpperdeckMatt,

Thanks for posting and I really appreciate hearing that you keep an eye on what we all talk about. I can only speak for myself and my two brothers who could only afford to order one inner case to split between the three of us. We were all extremely excited for this product with the original card artwork. After reading your post and seeing the checklist, all I can say is that I could not be more bummed. To have a product this high end (~800 for our inner case) and to not even get a sketch card per box is disappointing beyond belief. Sketch cards are the driving interest for marvel cards for us. Anyways, thanks for listening, and we hope our opinion is heard. Look forward to the next set that is hopefully sketch centered and as fun as Marvel Masterpieces was.

As many people have said, the big issue with the sketch card market right now is the saturation. I feel it really hit a high point about 2 years ago, and we have been actively trying to combat this on 2 fronts. As you pointed out, the rarity is the big one. In addition to making them rare, we have also aimed to make these with better quality as opposed to quantity. The artwork definitely plays a role when it comes to desire or want for a card, but scarcity can work into that equation as well. While a card that is numbered out of 99 has an almost static value regardless of which card of 99 you get, sketch cards can have a variable value based on the art, artist, character, etc. By making them scarce, their value can still fluctuate, but the thought is that even the lowest end value has a higher starting point.

As for a sketch centered set, stay tuned...

All of your concerns are definitely taken into consideration and discussed when it comes to creating future products. It may never be an instantaneous change, but it will happen as time progresses. We are in this for the long game!

Last edited by UpperDeckMatt; 04-28-2017 at 08:48 PM.
UpperDeckMatt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-28-2017, 09:32 PM   #230 (permalink)
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 1,782
Default

I am not trying to say that only 1 sketch per inner case was a good approach, but the release is what it is so I'm trying to find the best positive I can in what's coming out. First off, we haven't seen it, e pack release is prolly bit away to give retailers a chance to sell their stock. And heres the breakdown of the hits according the Upperdeck Matt

6 Ex-Century Cards
5 PMGs
1 Jambalaya
1 Holoblast Hologram
1-2 Artist Autos
1-2 1995 Buybacks
1-2 Royal Foil
1 Sketch or Plexi-Sketch Card
2-3 Preserved Amber
0-1 Cut Comic Panels/Coin Cards
Web Cards are much tougher, and are roughly 1 in 4 inners ( or 1 in 2 masters)

I see least 3-4 hits in an inner case that can be equivalent to hitting a subpar sketch, perna level, or in between. Maybe more depending on rarity or character. I would think out of 5 PMG, 1-2 could be equal to few sketch level prices, holoblast , maybe royal foil, then you still get a sketch. etc etc I'm not counting the Jambalaya either.

I kinda see what they are trying to do in trying to reel in the sketch market on the marvel side but least give some other hits..

I got spoiled by JJMM Ill admit. And I'm not saying I like this change. I'm just trying to make best of whats coming out. I'm hoping things like the bronze pmg, since its new well still be wanted for rainbows, and people wanting to build a pmg set at an affordable price. Again, I know I'm prolly way off, just trying find some positive in all the negative (understandable mind you) to this set.

Last edited by Sharard; 04-28-2017 at 09:41 PM.
Sharard is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-28-2017, 11:28 PM   #231 (permalink)
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 202
Default

As long as they look good, I'll probably attempt a bronze set. I love everything marvel metal. Lol. To me the inner case appears to have a good bit of value to make up for.sketches. Definitely looks like at 2-3 bigger hits per box. I'd imagine numbered artist autos helps keepisode value up especially if gold foil is nice (similar to silver spectrum mm16)
Gambit C10 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-29-2017, 01:58 AM   #232 (permalink)
Member
 
DynaEtch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 37
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spider-Fan View Post
Deadpool inserts are... out of place? Did they not think Deadpool could carry his own set down the line? Sounds like they were trying to broaden the collector base for this with a random wildcard.

Flashback to the Carnage across America subset from 95 Ultra Spiderman...I actually like that they are retaining some of the elements of that set. However, agreed it is a bit out of place in relation to Spiderman.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
__________________
~~~ '90s trading cards === Golden Era ~~~
DynaEtch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-29-2017, 03:39 AM   #233 (permalink)
Member
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Australia
Posts: 233
Default

Hey UpperdeckMatt,

Firstly, thanks for the replies, hopefully this type of interaction continues with other sets and in general because I am sure everyone on the board appreciates the communication.

I have a question in regards to the epack release, are the 10 copies "destroyed" when you upgrade to the next tier or because they are physical, they just get locked so you cant trade them (like the tier sets in MM16) so in essence you get them both?
Xazark is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-29-2017, 08:34 AM   #234 (permalink)
Member
 
Spider-Fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 7,473
Default

I'm happy to go on record saying there is no need for sketches to be 1 per box. 1 per inner would be fine if the quality was stellar, unfortunately that isn't the case. Regardless, the issue for me isn't lack of sketches, it's lack of hits that I want. Nobody said it was easy.
__________________
Collecting Sketch Cards: Spider-Man and his allies/enemies; Batman, Joker, Harley Quinn | Collecting Comics: Carnage, Harley Quinn, TMNT, J. Scott Campbell
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
My Non-Sports Card Buy/Sell/Trade thread: http://tinyurl.com/Spider-Fan-NSBST
Spider-Fan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-29-2017, 09:04 AM   #235 (permalink)
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 60
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spider-Fan View Post
I'm happy to go on record saying there is no need for sketches to be 1 per box. 1 per inner would be fine if the quality was stellar, unfortunately that isn't the case. Regardless, the issue for me isn't lack of sketches, it's lack of hits that I want. Nobody said it was easy.
Sure if, it's Glebe, Nar, Jusko or at the very least a Basio sketch, one per inner case would be very fair. But with the artist list, I think we deserve at least two or three sketches for the asking price.

Plus the inserts don't justify the lack of sketches, IMO. Too many subsets I probably have no interest in and it's too hard to build the ones I do want, like the Holoblast and Comic Cut Panels.

To me, this seems to have less appeal than MM16, at much higher volume.
Half Vaped is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-29-2017, 09:05 AM   #236 (permalink)
Member
 
R2mi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: France
Posts: 178
Default

More pictures of Melike Acar's stunning work





R2mi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-29-2017, 09:16 AM   #237 (permalink)
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 60
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by R2mi View Post
More pictures of Melike Acar's stunning work
Nice. I wouldn't be mad to pull one of those sketches. Definitely higher quality than your average MM16 sketch.
Half Vaped is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-29-2017, 09:42 AM   #238 (permalink)
Member
 
R2mi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: France
Posts: 178
Default

More previews





Ivan Rodriguez below






(More avalaible here... scroll down)



Nathan Nelson



(More avalaible here)
R2mi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-29-2017, 09:57 AM   #239 (permalink)
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 27
Default

Yep really mad I preordered now. Those sketches are okay for a 65 a box one sketch per box release. But 2 per case? Not really. Obviously excepting Acar.
Mahlersketch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-29-2017, 10:41 AM   #240 (permalink)
Member
 
DarthRogahn's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Minneapolis MN
Posts: 1,716
Default

I think this will be a really fun release.
It's not for everyone though which i think is okay as variety is always good.
Curious on the art for the PMGs and other inserts and how those will turn out.
This to me seems like a set to collect if you chase after characters.
Will be fun to watch breaks and also pick up a few singles
The sketch cards shown here (again art is subjective) look great. Not 1 per inner case great but 1 per 3 to 4 box great.
DarthRogahn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-29-2017, 11:06 AM   #241 (permalink)
Member
 
Spider-Fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 7,473
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Half Vaped View Post
Sure if, it's Glebe, Nar, Jusko or at the very least a Basio sketch, one per inner case would be very fair. But with the artist list, I think we deserve at least two or three sketches for the asking price.
There are hundreds of Marvel sketches on ebay for way less than the price of a box. Have at 'em!

1/box sketches = crap quality = more sketches nobody wants on ebay
__________________
Collecting Sketch Cards: Spider-Man and his allies/enemies; Batman, Joker, Harley Quinn | Collecting Comics: Carnage, Harley Quinn, TMNT, J. Scott Campbell
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
My Non-Sports Card Buy/Sell/Trade thread: http://tinyurl.com/Spider-Fan-NSBST
Spider-Fan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-29-2017, 11:25 AM   #242 (permalink)
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 60
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spider-Fan View Post
There are hundreds of Marvel sketches on ebay for way less than the price of a box. Have at 'em!

1/box sketches = crap quality = more sketches nobody wants on ebay
Harsh! Even the worst MM16 sketch artists are infinitely more talented than I am. And nobody pays me $3 to slave over painting on such a tiny canvas!

I agree that with sketches at 1/36 of the entire product with MM16, it really watered down their value. But I've picked up dozens of sketches that I consider mini pieces of art.

I hope UD will learn to find the happy medium between flooding the sketch market and being overly stingy with the sketches.
Half Vaped is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-29-2017, 11:49 AM   #243 (permalink)
Member
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Australia
Posts: 233
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Half Vaped View Post
I agree that with sketches at 1/36 of the entire product with MM16, it really watered down their value. But I've picked up dozens of sketches that I consider mini pieces of art.
To me, thats the point. Being able to get nice pieces of art at non-ridiculous prices is great for the collector. Its awesome when you manage to pick up a really sweet sketch and it almost feels like a bonus, so, while we dont want sketches to become AIM or Indy's monkey situations, I am a big fan of 1/box.

The reason the sketch prices in MM16 were watered down was because the rest of the product was quality and it wasn't relying on the sketch to make/break a box, I can see they are trying to do a similar thing here too, bigger range of hits, but the problem with a bigger range is fewer people will try to collect all of them, which means less demand, which in turn results in lower prices and less people busting boxes.

The sketch for me is a must have at 1/box, I rarely buy boxes/cases if that isn't the case. Personally I spent a fortune on MM16, probably the most I have ever spent on a single series, because I felt that even if the sketch was subpar, I still had a solid chance of getting my moneys worth out of a box purchase.

I love busting packs, its why I enjoy the hobby, but too many series are becoming too costly to bust open and you are infinitely better off just picking up what you like on the secondary market and unfortunately I think this is going to be one of those series, I just can't see the value being there to bust. More and more people are starting to realise this and its just going to hurt the hobby more and more.
Xazark is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-29-2017, 12:20 PM   #244 (permalink)
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 60
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xazark View Post
Being able to get nice pieces of art at non-ridiculous prices is great for the collector.
Yup. With MM16, I picked up plenty of sketches I like from what others may consider tier 2 and tier 3 artists, such as Cube, Mercia, Faustino, Geneta, NerP and Walton, for, IMO, fair prices.

But at the same time there are plenty of sketches that looked like they were "dialed in." Some sketches from one artist may be fairly impressive, while others from the same guy are "bleh."

I think the problem is the card companies don't pay artists enough. They should have a both a higher standard for a minimal quality for each sketch card and pay artists a fair price based on quality.

I wouldn't mind fewer sketches if they did that. From the sketches I've seen so far, for this set, they're better than the average MM16 sketch. But not one-every-$800 good.
Half Vaped is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-29-2017, 01:43 PM   #245 (permalink)
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Sammamish, WA
Posts: 813
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xazark View Post
To me, thats the point. Being able to get nice pieces of art at non-ridiculous prices is great for the collector. Its awesome when you manage to pick up a really sweet sketch and it almost feels like a bonus, so, while we dont want sketches to become AIM or Indy's monkey situations, I am a big fan of 1/box.

The reason the sketch prices in MM16 were watered down was because the rest of the product was quality and it wasn't relying on the sketch to make/break a box, I can see they are trying to do a similar thing here too, bigger range of hits, but the problem with a bigger range is fewer people will try to collect all of them, which means less demand, which in turn results in lower prices and less people busting boxes.

The sketch for me is a must have at 1/box, I rarely buy boxes/cases if that isn't the case. Personally I spent a fortune on MM16, probably the most I have ever spent on a single series, because I felt that even if the sketch was subpar, I still had a solid chance of getting my moneys worth out of a box purchase.

I love busting packs, its why I enjoy the hobby, but too many series are becoming too costly to bust open and you are infinitely better off just picking up what you like on the secondary market and unfortunately I think this is going to be one of those series, I just can't see the value being there to bust. More and more people are starting to realise this and its just going to hurt the hobby more and more.
^this

I stand by and repeat every point you made here Xazark. I also spent a bundle on MM16 yet I didn't bust a single pack. If I could participate in scooping up "watered down" sketches of MM16 quality every set, I might never bust another box or case again.

And to the quality boosters out there, how do you objectively measure "quality" ? For every Acar fan, there is an equally passionate Cook fan. For every Glebe fan, there is a Cooney or Teranishi or more.
How would artists react if UD started saying "rejects are now based on quality, which we can't define but we'll reject 40% more"? It's already bad where artists do the work first, then are informed of rejects without reason why AND they don't even get the three bucks for the reject.

If you enjoy "quality" art, then don't force all of the rest of the collector base to hew to your tastes. Quit complaining that every box/case you broke didn't have an Acar in it and just buy her singles. They will be up on eBay day of or day before release.
HiltonL is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-29-2017, 08:33 PM   #246 (permalink)
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 60
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by HiltonL View Post
^this

I stand by and repeat every point you made here Xazark. I also spent a bundle on MM16 yet I didn't bust a single pack. If I could participate in scooping up "watered down" sketches of MM16 quality every set, I might never bust another box or case again.

And to the quality boosters out there, how do you objectively measure "quality" ? For every Acar fan, there is an equally passionate Cook fan. For every Glebe fan, there is a Cooney or Teranishi or more.
How would artists react if UD started saying "rejects are now based on quality, which we can't define but we'll reject 40% more"? It's already bad where artists do the work first, then are informed of rejects without reason why AND they don't even get the three bucks for the reject.

If you enjoy "quality" art, then don't force all of the rest of the collector base to hew to your tastes. Quit complaining that every box/case you broke didn't have an Acar in it and just buy her singles. They will be up on eBay day of or day before release.
You make some valid points. I busted 21 boxes of MM16 and the sketches gave opening each one a "box-of-chocolates" feeling (in a good way, mostly). I'm not one of the sketch snobs that appreciate only the top 10% of the MM16 sketches; I'd say I honestly enjoy all but two or three of the sketches I pulled and even the ones I don't care for, I can see others enjoying them. And I've paid for dozens of singles on eBay and COMC.

The vast majority of the sketches, I'd rate from "good" to "excellent." I wouldn't mind having pulled fewer sketches if they were all closer to being "excellent." I know that art is, by nature, just about purely subjective, so how do we fairly judge what makes the cut? Should UD base each artists' pay on how well their art was received on a prior release? I don't know how to fairly judge if a card is worthy, but there should be some kind of minimal standard.

Let's say you have a choice of two jobs: 1) You need to make 100 sketches, with a relatively low bar for quality, or 2) Make 30 sketches, but have your art subject to higher scrutiny and more likely for rejection for not meeting a certain quality standard. If you get paid the exact same overall for both jobs, I can see artists putting a more honest effort into job #2.

I believe UD should pay the artists for rejects as well--they deserve some compensation for their efforts.
Half Vaped is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-29-2017, 09:10 PM   #247 (permalink)
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 1,669
Default

Those Acar's are insane. Almost NARish from MM back in the day.

Esp like he Black Cat one.
TimBuckTwo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-30-2017, 01:29 AM   #248 (permalink)
Banned
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: TX
Posts: 39
Default

Hmmm, I don't see redemption cards for sketch puzzle (similar to Joe Jusko of MM16) or original artwork of the card set (similar to Boris Vallejo of MM96), or 3D hologram (similar to Spider Man Fleer94)...
Super J is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-30-2017, 08:43 PM   #249 (permalink)
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 1,782
Default

Hoping tomorrow we see the break UpperDeckMatt announced in one of his previous posts. Looks like one full set of 100 base and 45 from the 4 subsets will be one a case, considering if team ups is perfect collation.

I think the base set is going to look great, heres hoping the inserts, metals, and all the other extras look good too.
Sharard is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2017, 12:49 PM   #250 (permalink)
Upper Deck
 
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 45
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gambit C10 View Post
As long as they look good, I'll probably attempt a bronze set. I love everything marvel metal. Lol. To me the inner case appears to have a good bit of value to make up for.sketches. Definitely looks like at 2-3 bigger hits per box. I'd imagine numbered artist autos helps keepisode value up especially if gold foil is nice (similar to silver spectrum mm16)
We got autos for just about all of the artists. Keep an eye out for some of the big names like Greg Hildebrandt, Luis Royo, Bill Sienkiewicz, etc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xazark View Post
Hey UpperdeckMatt,

I have a question in regards to the epack release, are the 10 copies "destroyed" when you upgrade to the next tier or because they are physical, they just get locked so you cant trade them (like the tier sets in MM16) so in essence you get them both?
It is a combining achievement, which means the 10 cards will be destroyed. Most (if not all) stack style achievement cards are designed this way.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HiltonL View Post

And to the quality boosters out there, how do you objectively measure "quality" ? For every Acar fan, there is an equally passionate Cook fan. For every Glebe fan, there is a Cooney or Teranishi or more.
How would artists react if UD started saying "rejects are now based on quality, which we can't define but we'll reject 40% more"? It's already bad where artists do the work first, then are informed of rejects without reason why AND they don't even get the three bucks for the reject.

If you enjoy "quality" art, then don't force all of the rest of the collector base to hew to your tastes. Quit complaining that every box/case you broke didn't have an Acar in it and just buy her singles. They will be up on eBay day of or day before release.
There are two good points here...

1) There are people out there that are not fans of Acar or Glebes. I have met them in person. Granted, they are not the majority of voices I here, but everybody has their own collecting habits. We try to have a bit of everything to appeal to as many people as possible. Maybe you're a base set collector? Or perhaps you only chase the high end cards? Or maybe you only collect certain characters? Personally, I'll be chasing PMGs and anything symbiote related.

2) A challenge that we have with high tier artist is that we are just as concerned of their value as they are. If every box break were to include a Glebe sketch, the value and equity associated with the Glebes drop drastically. Suddenly the market for their work would collapse on top of itself. We need to have a wide market of people and artists in every product. Some people also only collect certain artists. I've seen one person on the forums who started a PC of Leo Pertuzzatti. Personally, I like his style. His cards may not be the best in the world, but if it appeals to you, that's what matters.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharard View Post
Hoping tomorrow we see the break UpperDeckMatt announced in one of his previous posts. Looks like one full set of 100 base and 45 from the 4 subsets will be one a case, considering if team ups is perfect collation.

I think the base set is going to look great, heres hoping the inserts, metals, and all the other extras look good too.
I was able to see a break from the printer, and I really dig the way the inserts came out. From what I've been told, looks like my case will be arriving Tues or Wednesday. Which means pics should be posted a few days after that. Hopefully by the end of the week.
UpperDeckMatt is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:39 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO
Copyright 2013, Blowout Cards Inc.