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Old 05-18-2017, 04:51 PM   #476 (permalink)
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Hi also if anyone has the following cards for sale please PM me

2016 MM

What If Jusko Auto /10

Spider-man
Dr. Strange Base printing plate
Black Cat Base printing plate

Red Foil Gallery Cards
Storm

Buyback Jusko Auto /15

Spiderman
Thanos
Thor
Jean Grey
Dr Strange
Dr Octupus
Invisible Woman
Quicksilver
Punisher

Regards
Romi
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Old 05-18-2017, 06:59 PM   #477 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by XtraeFusion View Post
Hi also if anyone has the following cards for sale please PM me

2016 MM

What If Jusko Auto /10

Spider-man
Dr. Strange Base printing plate
Black Cat Base printing plate

Red Foil Gallery Cards
Storm

Buyback Jusko Auto /15

Spiderman
Thanos
Thor
Jean Grey
Dr Strange
Dr Octupus
Invisible Woman
Quicksilver
Punisher

Regards
Romi
Romi, with all due respect, this really should stay in the buy/sell/trade section.
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Old 05-18-2017, 09:11 PM   #478 (permalink)
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Hi Cory sorry i don't really post a lot on here
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Old 05-19-2017, 12:19 AM   #479 (permalink)
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Here is a scketch I just got.



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Old 05-19-2017, 03:33 AM   #480 (permalink)
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Nice one. Linework is a little rough for my tastes, but characters I love nonetheless.
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Old 05-20-2017, 01:44 AM   #481 (permalink)
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So has this product fizzled out?

I bought some of the cards on eBay but my interest is limited. I really don't care for the inserts. The new original artwork is what I like about the set.
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Old 05-20-2017, 08:50 AM   #482 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by fabiani12333 View Post
So has this product fizzled out?

I bought some of the cards on eBay but my interest is limited. I really don't care for the inserts. The new original artwork is what I like about the set.
Looked like a pretty rough break, on average.
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Old 05-20-2017, 10:32 AM   #483 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by fabiani12333 View Post
So has this product fizzled out?

I bought some of the cards on eBay but my interest is limited. I really don't care for the inserts. The new original artwork is what I like about the set.
Still think it's a solid set, especially the artwork, but I'm wondering if Upper Deck is overusing the Marvel Retro insert concept. Especially with so many different PMG parallels, it's a huge turn off to set collectors. Also, because of its nature being focused on just Spiderman, the whole thing is very niche...and there appear to be a LOT of obscure characters in this release. Just looking at some of the Ex Century inserts- Shang Chi, Iron Patriot, Alistar Smythe, Ezekial, Cloak, Silk, Prowler....who knows, maybe I just dont know my Spiderman that well.

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Originally Posted by Spider-Fan View Post
Looked like a pretty rough break, on average.
Perhaps holding out some of the better cards for the epack release? I'm not sure how they do this, if it's all totally random or not.
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Old 05-20-2017, 11:18 AM   #484 (permalink)
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Perhaps holding out some of the better cards for the epack release? I'm not sure how they do this, if it's all totally random or not.
I honestly don't give much merit to this whole ePacks conspiracy theory.
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Old 05-20-2017, 11:58 AM   #485 (permalink)
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I thought this product was going to be more like Marvel Masterpieces 2017, but it turned out more like Marvel Retro with better artwork. But it kept the annoying thickness of MM16, lol. Seriously, the cards should be half as thick to better manage storage and they'd still feel just as premium.

The production run is roughly three times the size of MM16, but is there actually three times the demand? I don't mind the obscure characters as long as they look interesting, but I can't imagine this set even having equal the demand of MM16, let alone triple.

It's a nice set, but I think there were a lot of bad decisions in its execution.
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Old 05-21-2017, 02:48 AM   #486 (permalink)
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I honestly don't give much merit to this whole ePacks conspiracy theory.
Totally disagree after carefully watching MM's and Alien's release. 4 of the 5 Weaver dog tag auto's were all pulled from Epacks (the biggest card in Aliens), and like 90% of the red 1/1's from Jusko's were pulled from epacks. I had 4-5 others who were carefully watching Aliens/MM and all of us pulled our resources on the sets, and quite frankly it was unreal how many of the bigger cards came out of epacks.
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Old 05-21-2017, 03:03 AM   #487 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Cujobyte View Post
Totally disagree after carefully watching MM's and Alien's release. 4 of the 5 Weaver dog tag auto's were all pulled from Epacks (the biggest card in Aliens), and like 90% of the red 1/1's from Jusko's were pulled from epacks. I had 4-5 others who were carefully watching Aliens/MM and all of us pulled our resources on the sets, and quite frankly it was unreal how many of the bigger cards came out of epacks.
Listen to Cujo yall, dude dropped racks into the alien e packs.
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Old 05-21-2017, 04:21 AM   #488 (permalink)
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Listen to Cujo yall, dude dropped racks into the alien e packs.
At least I'm even on all my Alien purchases though, thanks to the 2x free Alien quad auto's, and 5x sets of Reds and Orange parallels that I've sold. Nevermind the $1000 sale I had just last week from an Alien card.

How's it feel to do nothing but troll me tho, not only here but in other break rooms Cypher? Should we tell everyone all the idiotic messages you continue to send me?? lol how sad and pathetic really.
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Old 05-21-2017, 09:34 AM   #489 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Cujobyte View Post
Totally disagree after carefully watching MM's and Alien's release. 4 of the 5 Weaver dog tag auto's were all pulled from Epacks (the biggest card in Aliens), and like 90% of the red 1/1's from Jusko's were pulled from epacks. I had 4-5 others who were carefully watching Aliens/MM and all of us pulled our resources on the sets, and quite frankly it was unreal how many of the bigger cards came out of epacks.
You're entitled to your opinion, but don't throw out numbers without the data to support them. If it's true, class action lawsuit. I just can't believe Upperdeck would set themselves up to be sued so easily.
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Old 05-21-2017, 12:52 PM   #490 (permalink)
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Has anyone gotten just a single "hit" from one box? Just picked up a single box from a reputable dealer and I only got one PMG red. No other hits. Me and my two brothers had split a 6 box case a couple weeks ago and every box had at least 2 hits plus an ex century card. That also seemed to be the ratio with other box breaks I have seen on here.

The additional basic inserts I got were:
6 regular silver pmg
1 team up
2 milestone
7 legacy
6 silver web foil

And before you ask, I have triple checked and none of the silver web foils are the gold foil auto versions.

Have never had something like this happen before with upper deck marvel cards. Is there any point in contacting them about this? Would they accommodate me? Kind of bummed about spending 135ish and getting just the one hit.
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Old 05-21-2017, 12:57 PM   #491 (permalink)
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UD Matt (somewhere, previously in this thread a couple pages back) was insistent that physical and e-pack odds were exactly the same.

I know we have anecdotal evidence and all that, and certainly MM16 I remember more reds coming out of e-pack. But we really don't have enough data with e-packs to be sure since there have only been four releases (MM16, Alien, Marvel Annual, FUSM), and Dr Strange doesn't count because the product was acknowledged to have totally different odds from physical.

Last edited by HiltonL; 05-21-2017 at 12:59 PM. Reason: forgot Marvel Annual was e-pack
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Old 05-21-2017, 01:34 PM   #492 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Spider-Fan View Post
You're entitled to your opinion, but don't throw out numbers without the data to support them. If it's true, class action lawsuit. I just can't believe Upperdeck would set themselves up to be sued so easily.


It's one of those things that could never be proven either way....for example, even if every single Red spectrum 1/1 from 2016 MM was pulled from epack, this could still be an (extremely,extremely) low probabilistic event. There is no way to conclude cards were held back from data alone, thus a lawsuit would never work.

If I had to choose, I would agree with you that nothing is being held back on purpose, and it's all random. It wouldn't make much sense for UD to do this, even from an incentive aspect. Surely if people were pulling hot cards from the physical release, they would be anticipating more and more the epack release.

Edit: to the last point, there is a threshold though....if almost all the hot cards were known to be pulled in the physical release, then anticipation would obviously not be greater for the epack, but rather much less, since little would be left for epack.


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Old 05-21-2017, 03:21 PM   #493 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Jakecg11 View Post
Has anyone gotten just a single "hit" from one box? Just picked up a single box from a reputable dealer and I only got one PMG red. No other hits. Me and my two brothers had split a 6 box case a couple weeks ago and every box had at least 2 hits plus an ex century card. That also seemed to be the ratio with other box breaks I have seen on here.

The additional basic inserts I got were:
6 regular silver pmg
1 team up
2 milestone
7 legacy
6 silver web foil

And before you ask, I have triple checked and none of the silver web foils are the gold foil auto versions.

Have never had something like this happen before with upper deck marvel cards. Is there any point in contacting them about this? Would they accommodate me? Kind of bummed about spending 135ish and getting just the one hit.
I don't know in this particular case because I'm not sure what is "guaranteed" per box, but in other products Upperdeck has provided replacement cards for missing hits as long as you purchased from an authorized seller and kept the receipt and all the packaging. I'very been through the process personally with an Iron Man 3 box and was also part of a 2014 Marvel Premier group break. In both cases, Upperdeck provided above and beyond what was missing.
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Old 05-21-2017, 03:50 PM   #494 (permalink)
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It's one of those things that could never be proven either way....
I don't mean any disrespect to Cujo, who I think is a great board member. I'm also not asking for absolute proof, just a little back-up for a pretty loaded statement.

For example...

4/5 Weaver dog tags... Is this statistically significant? How much of the product was sold as physical verses how much was sold through epacks? If the majority of the product was sold through epacks, this is an expected result. Looking specifically at a card numbered to 5 might be skewed verses looking at dog tags overall.

90% of Jusko red 1/1s... Really? 90%? It's human nature to exaggerate unintentionally when trying to make a point. That amount seems like a stretch, but I'm open to the possibility of it being true. How many were there and how many were documented to come out of epacks? We may not know exactly how much of the production run was sold through epacks, but we know it wasn't 90%.

The thing about epacks is that it's pretty transparent. If you pay close enough attention, you can document a good portion of what is coming out of epacks. We don't have that luxury for physical. We only know what is publicly posted. We don't know what percent of the physical product that accounts for, and we don't know how much physical product is left unopened. Then we're still left with the mystery of what was held back for replacements or otherwise never made it into packs. So, if distribution was 50/50, it would always appear like more hits came out of epacks just because there is higher visibility of what is being opened. Combine that with not actually knowing the physical/epacks split, I thinks it's fair to give Upperdeck the benefit of the doubt unless there is solid evidence otherwise. It wouldn't take much evidence for a judge to require Upperdeck to turn over the relevant production records. Epacks seems like to lucrative of a business for Upperdeck to jeopardize it so foolishly.
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Old 05-21-2017, 08:35 PM   #495 (permalink)
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4/5 Weaver dog tags... Is this statistically significant?
Assuming a 50-50 percent split in physical/epack production, there would be a 37.5% chance of seeing one of the platforms having either 4 or more of the Weaver dog tags. 37.5% in my opinion is not outlandish, and would not be statistically significant.

If the production split was anything different than 50-50...say 60-40 or 30-70, the probability of one platform having 4 or more of the Weaver dog tags only goes up from 37.5%, meaning we should be surprised even less.

As for the 2016 MM Red spectrums being 90% from epack, that is a different animal, but I agree such statement would need better backing, as it sounds unlikely. I believe there was a thread tracking red spectrum pulls, it might help confirm or refute the statement.
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Old 05-22-2017, 07:31 AM   #496 (permalink)
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I recall the e-pack frenzy for 2016mm and yes it "felt" like the epacks were loaded because people were pulling case hits in few packs and posting about it. If you want to see it yourself read the 2016mm thread for that time period. I'd say May - June. The number of 2016mm cards hit a peak of 130,000 sometime in June. Of course there was a huge bias because we were only seeing the hits being posted, nothing about the dud packs. But there were enough people hitting big hits in a handful of packs to entice me to get some. I hit a sketch and holofoil in 8 packs, my cuz a sketch and spectra in 6 packs - nothing crazy. Some may ask did UD load the epacks to get people to buy into this concept for this first set? Who knows. But people appeared to be getting addicted to epacks and some going beyond their budget, that much was very evident
Regarding documentation - Hard to document some hits like reds when they were being removed fast by people to get in hand. It was easier to document the pulled T4 numbers and the claimed achievement cards as lot of people sat on those.
At the end of the day...taking into account all the bias...its hard to say if they were really loaded or not, and impossible to prove. But hey, It was a fun time
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Old 05-22-2017, 08:15 AM   #497 (permalink)
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Even if Cujo isn't 100% on point, there are still plenty of questions out there. These companies are always looking to get one over on people. Panini, Topps, and Upper Deck have all done incredibly slimy things in the past.
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Old 05-22-2017, 08:26 AM   #498 (permalink)
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I followed MM2016 extremely closely and got caught up in the epack craze myself. While I do not have specific data / hard evidence on anything the epacks seems loaded compared to everything else. Possibly because it was so transparent (you could see pretty much everything that was hit whereas on standard breaks a lot of key hits never are seen)
When this first hit there were not a lot of cases to go around. The product was extremely tough to find...

That makes me to believe a larger portion was sold through epacks and not hobby. Assuming that is the case (again just through my observations) it would make sense that more red specs, high end plates, jusko sketches, etc.. would come through e packs..

the only cards that I did not see at all on epacks were sketch redemptions. Making me feel like UD used some "strategy" (to be polite) on how they distributed this release.
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Old 05-22-2017, 10:07 AM   #499 (permalink)
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Even if Cujo isn't 100% on point, there are still plenty of questions out there. These companies are always looking to get one over on people. Panini, Topps, and Upper Deck have all done incredibly slimy things in the past.
The funny thing is that only Upperdeck benefits from these rumors. They make more money on epacks than going through the traditional route. If people start holding out for epacks because of an unsubstantiated perception, the business will shift towards epacks. Upperdeck makes more money, distributors and retailers suffer.

All I'm saying is, if you're going to make the statements then back them up with the numbers from an unbiased perspective. Just because these companies did things in the past doesn't mean they are guilty now. If the table was turned, you would want a little evidence presented before the pitchforks came out.
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Last edited by Spider-Fan; 05-22-2017 at 10:10 AM.
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Old 05-22-2017, 10:46 AM   #500 (permalink)
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the only cards that I did not see at all on epacks were sketch redemptions. Making me feel like UD used some "strategy" (to be polite) on how they distributed this release.
UDMatt explained this a few pages back about how in ePack, they were able to "load" puzzle sketches directly on the site, so redemption cards were unnecessary. They didn't want to load puzzles directly into physical product because it would either make the box fat and stick out or the box would be shorted one or more non-sketch cards.

This particular strategy was quite reasonable.

Ud only promises that their statistics provided are accurate over the entire product run and does not necessarily guarantee any specific ratio in every cases or even group of cases.

I have no experience with ePacks, but I believe that for the physical release of MM16, the distribution of the cards changed between the first and the last cases produced.

Out of my 21 boxes, six boxes each had one Epic Purple parallel in place of a base card and one had a Legendary Orange substitute. A full 1/3 of my boxes were shorted a base card each.

Of the 21 boxes, I pulled two Tier 4 base and one Tier 4 What If..., which are right on the odds. But I pulled three Tier 4 Gold Sig, instead of just one. Sure, I could have just been lucky with the Gold Sigs. But it's a little suspicious that I only got lucky with the cards that lack serial numbers.
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